The DIY'rs Cookbook
Apr 17, 2016 at 4:52 AM Post #391 of 1,974
What and how do we know what IS ‘Better’?
or
It’s all in our heads, or is it?

 
Part 17             Designers vs Users
 
Designers vs Users
 
This is a distinction that I have not seen mentioned in audio, specifically, what are the differences between designers/engineers of our coveted gear and us as users.
These 2 groups perform very different 'tests', have very different expectations, utilize the gear very differently, and have very different environments within which we evaluate gear.
 
And I need to point out that this isn’t meant as a value judgement, in any way shape or form, but as an examination of the 2 very different approaches these 2 groups use in spending their time in ‘working on’ their system/component.
Indeed the lines between these 2 ‘camps’ can all to easily get blurred if exactitude is attempted.
So this is primarily aimed at exploring these 2 different approaches to using all this gear.
 
And granted many designers will spend many hours listening to gear but are they doing so as users or designers?
I submit it isn’t as a designer, at least not for hours and hours on end.
The ‘luxury’ of listening for listening’s sake is what a user does.
 
To expect a designer/engineer to spend hundreds or thousands of hours using and listening to the same piece of gear and document its changes thru time is unrealistic, at best.  
But that is exactly what we as users can and actually do.
 
To expect a designer/engineer to run a particular design with the same ancillary gear, let alone in a typical 'home' as we users will, for these extended periods is also unrealistic.
 
Conversely while some users might have extensive measurement capabilities, this is somewhat rare.  
So we users use the ubiquitous test and measurement systems available to us, namely our hearing which is conditioned by our expectations and has been calibrated by our experiences.
 
In short we as users determine if a component might work well in our system(s) based upon our previous experience and from experiences of those whom we trust or those who have a congruent set of expectations to ours.
 
And as an aside. Another similar type of comparison is…
Some would prefer to use a musician as a 'standard' or benchmark to determine what is 'real’. This approach is going to yield different results because what we as 'the audience' experience is by definition going to be a different experience from that of the musician.  
Much like the recorded sound of any instrument is going to be different than what the musician experiences.
 
A case in point is, a friend of mine listened to my headphone system and said "This doesn't sound like what I heard while playing in the orchestra".  
Quite right!  
We hear what the audience is supposed to hear which is the sum total of the piece of music that is being projected towards the audience.
And not what the musicians themselves hear while playing.
 
And in a similar vein designers/engineers are concerned with the specifics of the operation of the circuit and also tackle the challenges of manufacturing the design etc.
While we users are tasked with integrating this specific design into our existing setup.
Our process of integrating can run the gamut of using different cables, or tubes, or acoustic treatments, or selling off that component or perhaps others because they simply don't work well in our system anymore.
 
Which brings me to my next point.
Some of us can and do change gear like changing our wardrobe.  If it doesn't fit, we sell it off.
 
While others (myself for instance) will explore what can be done to see if our new electro-marvel will or can be made to fit, just a bit better.
Which presupposes that we chose well to begin with.
 
Or better yet we will tweak the gear to more closely match our specific expectations, to suit our requirements all the more.
Sometimes this process can take many thousands of hours of experimentation, to try this and that, mostly based upon suggestions, or tweaks performed by others, and/or our own past experiences.
And as we gain experience with dialing in these tweaks we come to know what their ‘signature’ is so we can then tailor our desired end results to better suit our expectations, or perhaps, hopefully, exceed them.
 
But once these tweaks have ‘proven’ themselves so as to become a ‘known’ factor, they usually take much much less time to implement.  Such as change a fuse, or add vibration control, or perhaps additional cooling, etc.
 
All of this is not something designers/engineers will take the time nor devote the resources to explore.
And to a certain extent the amount of time spent in pursuing these sorts of tweaks can become counter productive, especially for a designer/engineer, and especially if taken to an extreme.
But not for us as users…
 
That's what we (can) do as hobbyist’s, play around with stuff to dial in our system to meet our expectations, which are unique and often not fully realized to begin with.
And yes some do take modding to an extreme, but they usually also know to take responsibility for their actions, although some will try to ‘pull a fast one’…
 
Some users mod and push the envelope to explore the scaleability of the gear we own by whatever means is ‘appropriate’, based upon the users circumstance, $, experience/talent etc, which all factor in.
Some experienced DIY’rs have a range of options and choices of tweaks to choose from in order to push the envelope, and hopefully in the direction of choice, ie. ‘Better’.
 
IOW the purchase of gear is just the 1st step in ownership for us as users.
But it’s the last step (except for any warranty/repair issues) for the designer/engineer.  

JJ
atsmile.gif

 

End Part 17              
 
Next up         Connector Contact patch resistance reduction
 
Apr 22, 2016 at 3:23 AM Post #392 of 1,974
Ms. Girly removed the Akiko AC stick from my rig yesterday, without telling me (as arranged).
 
I did not notice immediately.  In fact it was a couple of hours into my evening listening that I "felt" something was "off".  It was most striking when Leonard Cohen's "Show Me the Place" was playing and the space of the piece just wasn't right.  And it was at that point I took occasion to actually look at my rig ... and lo-and-behold, the Akiko stick was missing.
 
I would consider my electrical system fairly quiet and, as @johnjen might say "well grounded", so the effect was subtle, yet noticeable.  And I only have the one Akiko device in play at the moment.
 
I am on record as being a bit skeptical about these things, but the fact that I noticed at all has me wanting to add some more and see if the effect is cumulative as others here are finding (I'd love to hear @BIG POPPA's highly-tuned/tweaked rig).  Happily this stuff is relatively inexpensive (less than a tube-swap for sure) and easily performed/removed.
 
So ... tomorrow will be a more overt test with what I have ... in other words, turning my back and having Ms. Girly randomly remove/replace the stick while I am listening.  And after that I think it'll be adding some more of these devices to see what they can do.
 
I want to remain skeptical - it's the engineer/scientist in me - but that's harder to do when I don't know the change has happened and I still feel/hear something is different.
 
Apr 22, 2016 at 7:07 AM Post #393 of 1,974
Interesting that you noticed a lack of 'something' in the presentation, all based upon your long term audio memory of a track or an aspect of a 'voice'.
 
This is the most difficult way of 'testing' to determine if an experiment or investigation has 'merit',
that being, by negation.
 
Remove it from the system (either blind or with awareness, which sometimes can be harder) and try to describe what the differences are.
And to see if these determinations are repeatable, is truly THE acid test to top it all off.
 
In my case I noticed that certain tracks lost their 'vitality', became somewhat lifeless and monchromatic (the 'voices' tended to merge into a 'ball of sound') with a decided lessening of HB&W and T3.
 
But as soon as the canisters were back in and settled back down, those same previously kickass tracks, came back to life.
 
And speaking of coming back to life…
 
Tonight the SuperGlue effect has returned, which tells me that the new usb cables and 2nd Wyrd are settling in nicely.
Currently I'm at ≈260hrs on the cables after cooking them and 360hrs for the Wyrd.
 
The bass has become extended and each 'voice' has impact that reaches WAY down low, and the mids and up have a degree of micro-detail that is most intriguing and delightful.
 
IOW C3 has set new heights in terms of having an integrated sound field, with a commensurate increase in 'voice' integrity.
So if the patterns hold up, in ≈ 200hrs things should be quite settled down and a new peak established.
 
Big Poppa was right, the 2nd Wyrd and 6" usb jumper cable is a significant step up for the USB data feed to the dac.
And when used with the Akiko sticks/canisters, well, the results are setting new degrees of acoustic wonderfulness.
And this degree of wonderfulness is also 'bleeding over' into less than stellar music (ZZ Top is intriguing)
 
And this usually results in new terminology being coined, such as Tuubz, except there is more yet to be revealed in the totality of this iteration.
IOW the system hasn't peaked yet, and when it does that is when new terms tend to spring up.
 
Right now Paul Simon's Kodachrome has my head dancing on my shoulders, like there is no tomorrow.
 
JJ
 
Apr 22, 2016 at 5:01 PM Post #394 of 1,974
As an example of perfect when it's new, isn't perfect because it's new....
Just received a wireworld chroma A B 20 INCH. 90ohm... I did a wipe inside and out of 90% IPA. Deoxit red...The black muck that came off new plated gold connectors....
Incidentally I got the Intona the non industrial version, very nice effect on my OPPO. A guy on CA measured a drop in noise floor using the intona 15-20 DB.
It's made the sound come into focus and made the experience more Holographic.
The percussion/ cymbals sharp and have zing. Voices ve definition. Bass more even sounding. Plugging and unplugging definitely changes. (Not a psychological effect.. 8^).
The ifi ipurifier 2 I have won't work post INTONA. I think because the output is 300mv. Galvanic isolation 2 spartan FPGA'S...Pre clocking..Some have posted that galvanic Dacs don't have as a marked effect.
I like it but another expensive but under the radar purchase..
Oh I cleaned the connectors for the extra AB cable you need...
 
Apr 22, 2016 at 8:48 PM Post #395 of 1,974
snip
Incidentally I got the Intona the non industrial version, very nice effect on my OPPO. A guy on CA measured a drop in noise floor using the intona 15-20 DB.
It's made the sound come into focus and made the experience more Holographic.
The percussion/ cymbals sharp and have zing. Voices ve definition. Bass more even sounding. Plugging and unplugging definitely changes. (Not a psychological effect.. 8^).
snip

The most impressive improvement (but not the only one) I have noticed from adding the 2nd Wyrd was to the soundstage, as in it has much more 3d resolution along with tighter definition to all the 'voices' AND to the acoustic 'space' itself.
Or put another way the holographic nature of my system took a mother may I step up.
My term Holo was just been redefined with new degrees of focus and resolution as a result.
 
JJ
 
Apr 23, 2016 at 3:48 AM Post #397 of 1,974
  The most impressive improvement (but not the only one) I have noticed from adding the 2nd Wyrd was to the soundstage, as in it has much more 3d resolution along with tighter definition to all the 'voices' AND to the acoustic 'space' itself.
Or put another way the holographic nature of my system took a mother may I step up.
My term Holo was just been redefined with new degrees of focus and resolution as a result.
 

I wonder how much things would improve if instead of the 2nd Wyrd (or the of the Wyrds altogether) a simple and inexpensive USB -> SPDIF converter were used, like the Musiland 01 USD:
http://www.musiland.com.cn/index.php/Product/show/id/143
 
For instance, I would expect that its Optical transceiver would generally work better than those included in laptops, and that any and all electric noise picked up from the computer would be dropped at the opto-coupler...
 
Apr 23, 2016 at 4:02 AM Post #398 of 1,974
  I wonder how much things would improve if instead of the 2nd Wyrd (or the of the Wyrds altogether) a simple and inexpensive USB -> SPDIF converter were used, like the Musiland 01 USD:
http://www.musiland.com.cn/index.php/Product/show/id/143
 
For instance, I would expect that its Optical transceiver would generally work better than those included in laptops, and that any and all electric noise picked up from the computer would be dropped at the opto-coupler...

I didn't see a price but I figure it's gotta be ≈$100, which is the cost for a Wyrd.
And the wyrd does both power supply isolation and digital signal re-clocking.
 
Also Big Poppa is also using an iFi product and another usb isolator as well.
 
And 2 Wyrds is still less than most of the other products with similar functionality.
 
JJ
 
Apr 23, 2016 at 4:09 AM Post #399 of 1,974
I've got the ifi purifier 2 and have been very impressed with what i like to call "active ferrite core." It is a great piece of gear, I would say even more so than the ifi usb power. I'll be getting a second one and stacking the ifi purifier 2 (I use at work) with the usb power I use at home. Galvanized usb on the ifi usb power 3 had me interested but I got the 2.0 version for a good deal.
 
Apr 23, 2016 at 4:16 AM Post #401 of 1,974
That's really wyrd stuff JJ. So just for the sake of trial and possibly even bigger returns, when are you guys trying 3 Wyrds?

Any reasoning for the improvement here? And are there issues with hi-res material say 176/192khz data?

When we were researching this, one guy (I forget where I read this and who it was) did try 3 Wyrds but the improvement fell of by quite a bit with the 3rd Wyrd.
 
So using 2 seems to be the 'optimal' setup, which I can confirm does make a significant improvement.
 
It will be interesting to see how well a 'decent' optical SPDIF cable will compare.
 
But what still gets me about these digital cable and data delivery tweaks are the types of impact these improvements make.
I mean tuubz like colorations and soundstage enhancements, wouldn't be on my list of what I'd expect to hear, at all, just due to digital cables and digital data path refinements.
 
Yet another mystery of sorts.
 
So what happened with your phase reversal experiments with your friends?
 
JJ
 
Apr 23, 2016 at 4:42 AM Post #402 of 1,974
Will you be making Portland JJ?

When we were researching this one guy (I forget where I read this and who it was) did try 3 Wyrds but the improvement fell of by quite a bit with the 3rd Wyrd.

So using 2 seems to be the 'optimal' setup, which I can confirm does make a significant improvement.

It will be interesting to see how well a 'decent' optical SPDIF cable will compare.

But what still gets me about these digital cable and data delivery tweaks are the types of impact these improvements make.
I mean tuubz like colorations and soundstage enhancements, wouldn't be on my list of what I'd expect to hear, at all, just due to digital cables and digital data path refinements.

Yet another mystery of sorts.

So what happened with your phase reversal experiments with your friends?

JJ


Also, my friend that I sent prt cable to runs an oddball player for Macs. I forget the name but it doesn't have a phase reversal plugin, its more a media server type player I want to say. I've yet to ask if he was able to ge the trial of jriver (foobar a no go on mac). He'll be at the bottlehead meet, I'm sure he'll hear it then.

The only issue with the wyrd (maybe it was just my unit) was its lack of 192khz support. I could care less about the uber sample rate but it was the only way the Bimby can run NOS which to my ears sounded more natural over the "perfect filter" upsampling it was doing on anything lesser than 176khz but I digress. I'm schiitless now so none of that matters.

I'm curious as to how this incoming Mutec 3+ compares to our more "conventional" approach if power regen, ddc, etc.
 
Apr 23, 2016 at 5:18 AM Post #403 of 1,974
I should be making the Bottlehead meet, but not the portland meet.
And gefski and I are combining our units for a schiit stack with tweaks for this next meet.
And I'll have my 800's along with my Akiko canisters to plug into this setup.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "lack of 192khz support".
I mean as I type this I'm listening to Hotel California in 192K thru my 2 Wyrd stack…
Is there something I'm missing?
 
As for the Mutec 3+ word clock, I agree it might be very revealing of how important the word clock timing is, separate from the data isolation efforts, and apart from the +5vdc supply stability.
 
JJ
 
Apr 23, 2016 at 7:01 AM Post #404 of 1,974
Ooh the yggyrag, that will be a popular station!! Plus Glenn can still rum the Woo amp se for some added flavor.
---
Odd, never got any of my HDtracks in 24/192 to work with the wyrd in line but take it off the chain and go direct and it was fine. Never heard of a usb interconnect unable to send that depth/rate (only other factor vs direct usb in) so I'm guessing it's was a bad unit?
 
Apr 23, 2016 at 8:16 AM Post #405 of 1,974
The only issue with the wyrd (maybe it was just my unit) was its lack of 192khz support. I could care less about the uber sample rate but it was the only way the Bimby can run NOS which to my ears sounded more natural over the "perfect filter" upsampling it was doing on anything lesser than 176khz but I digress. 
 


That's interesting: I was always wondering how/if people would find NOS 192 different from Mike's upsampling filter on the Bifrost MB. In your case, did you use the same masters for the comparisons (i.e. 192 kHz versions downsampled to 44.1 kHz)?
 

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