ardgedee
Headphoneus Supremus
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The diary entries of a little girl in her 30s! ~ Part 2
- Thread starter MuppetFace
- Start date
MrViolin
Headphoneus Supremus
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Quote:
ray samuels audio to 3.5mm adapter? First time I've heard of one.
You need one of these...
RSA to 3.5mm adaptor.
ray samuels audio to 3.5mm adapter? First time I've heard of one.
MrViolin
Headphoneus Supremus
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Quote:
Looks amazing, but I can't listen right now. I'll save it for tomorrow. Muppet gives off a feeling of authority. A scary person.
Hm... you guys are talking about altruism? It's just simply doing good and not expecting anything back. Doesn't really have to be sacrifice.
I think mupps is way cooler. She uses colours and stuff in her posts.
Looks amazing, but I can't listen right now. I'll save it for tomorrow. Muppet gives off a feeling of authority. A scary person.
Hm... you guys are talking about altruism? It's just simply doing good and not expecting anything back. Doesn't really have to be sacrifice.
a_recording
Member of the Trade: Lachlanlikesathing
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Quote:
Quote:
If you simply do good and do not expect anything back, that IS sacrifice because you have expended effort with no expectation of return. That's why it's considered good - because you go out of your way to do something with no reward.
If you do something good with the expectation of a reward, it isn't altruistic, it's a transaction.
The issue in Bioshock is that you do something good - but later get a return which you learn to expect throughout the game. There is virtually no penalty for choosing to save the little sisters, so it ISN'T truly altruism.
A moral dilemma is when it's difficult to choose between two choices. But of course (unless you are a sociopath) if the rewards are virtually the same for two options, you choose the morally good one. There is no difficulty in that choice. Yet Bioshock was sold on this idea of 'an amazing moral dilemma'.
What Blow is complaining about is that the game industry has such a immature conception of morals and an immature expectation of writing that something like the Little Sister's scenario is lauded as some kind of innovative and great test of moral character, when it is nothing of the sort. Yet players eat it up.
He comments that if you presented this moral dilemma to any phiosopher, or ethicist, or clergyman, or even your mother, they would laugh at you because the morality being taught is just plain shallow and meaningless. The game pretends to teach you the message, "Though you may be tempted by a real oppurtunity for profit, don't murder little girls - because, you know, that's wrong." The game actually teaches you, "Don't murder little girls, because it's not actually really profitable. And also it's kinda wrong."
Blow compares that in his lecture to incinerating the weighted companion cube in Portal, which WAS a dilemma for many players and resulted in playtests where players would spend hours trying to think of a way of tricking GLADOS.
Quote:
If you simply do good and do not expect anything back, that IS sacrifice because you have expended effort with no expectation of return. That's why it's considered good - because you go out of your way to do something with no reward.
If you do something good with the expectation of a reward, it isn't altruistic, it's a transaction.
The issue in Bioshock is that you do something good - but later get a return which you learn to expect throughout the game. There is virtually no penalty for choosing to save the little sisters, so it ISN'T truly altruism.
A moral dilemma is when it's difficult to choose between two choices. But of course (unless you are a sociopath) if the rewards are virtually the same for two options, you choose the morally good one. There is no difficulty in that choice. Yet Bioshock was sold on this idea of 'an amazing moral dilemma'.
What Blow is complaining about is that the game industry has such a immature conception of morals and an immature expectation of writing that something like the Little Sister's scenario is lauded as some kind of innovative and great test of moral character, when it is nothing of the sort. Yet players eat it up.
He comments that if you presented this moral dilemma to any phiosopher, or ethicist, or clergyman, or even your mother, they would laugh at you because the morality being taught is just plain shallow and meaningless. The game pretends to teach you the message, "Though you may be tempted by a real oppurtunity for profit, don't murder little girls - because, you know, that's wrong." The game actually teaches you, "Don't murder little girls, because it's not actually really profitable. And also it's kinda wrong."
Blow compares that in his lecture to incinerating the weighted companion cube in Portal, which WAS a dilemma for many players and resulted in playtests where players would spend hours trying to think of a way of tricking GLADOS.
a_recording
Member of the Trade: Lachlanlikesathing
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Btw TwinQY, you got the CKN70's? :3
Quote:
Yes but we only know about the minor differences after fact. What I'm trying to say is that we don't know what the other side gets before we make the choice the first time around. So the initial playthrough still presents a worthwhile decision. Oh BTW, I should also note that I am making on HUGE assumption here... and that is simply that one will make a specific choice repeatedly (either always good or always bad).
And actually, I think the game asks one deeper question regarding the Little Sisters... that being "do you consider this thing before you to be human or not? And just how inhuman does it have to be before you stop caring about it and just kill it off?"
Yes but we only know about the minor differences after fact. What I'm trying to say is that we don't know what the other side gets before we make the choice the first time around. So the initial playthrough still presents a worthwhile decision. Oh BTW, I should also note that I am making on HUGE assumption here... and that is simply that one will make a specific choice repeatedly (either always good or always bad).
And actually, I think the game asks one deeper question regarding the Little Sisters... that being "do you consider this thing before you to be human or not? And just how inhuman does it have to be before you stop caring about it and just kill it off?"
TwinQY
Something about the rear end of a cat
Quote:
adsfasfawe aewfadc awefadcea ewf dying from the cuteness of that statement.
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How'd you find out?
Found them in the mail today, I'd assume they'd been in there for a while since I've left all month. Opened them up a few hours ago.
Blue looks gooooood. Also the sound is....just so much detail for the price it's really not funny. Albeit less treble-y than I'd thought they'd be. But that's a good thing considering what I had expected.
Well, from all this talk, now I have to play this game.
Just a stab in the dark here... but you've got a total crush on a_rec right?
adsfasfawe aewfadc awefadcea ewf dying from the cuteness of that statement.
Quote:
How'd you find out?
Found them in the mail today, I'd assume they'd been in there for a while since I've left all month. Opened them up a few hours ago.
Blue looks gooooood. Also the sound is....just so much detail for the price it's really not funny. Albeit less treble-y than I'd thought they'd be. But that's a good thing considering what I had expected.
Well, from all this talk, now I have to play this game.
DigitalFreak
镇老鹰
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Hey Warren, Ive got the CLAS/RX MKIII in balance mode with it's bass boost knob at max driving the Q701's. With the added boost in bass the Q701 becomes a lot more genre friendly. I'm listening to some trance from Armin Van Buuren and it actually doesn't sound half bad at all. The added 20% boost into the bottom end seems to be enough to give the Q can some much added authority and warmth in the low end without sacrificing any of it's positive qualities such as it's speed and clarity.
a_recording
Member of the Trade: Lachlanlikesathing
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Quote:
True. You don't know that killing the little sisters nets you the same amount of adam in the first playthrough. But does the game ever feel difficult because you choose to save the little sisters? Do you get any sense at all that you have made a sacrifice? Even in one playthrough there is no sense of altruism beyond this kind of arbitrary distinction: "I might not be getting enough of this arbitrary number of resource then I otherwise would".
Think about the alternative. Let's say that in Bioshock, you got a significant penalty in terms of adam for saving the little sisters. The game would get increasingly difficult as you play because of this deficit, meaning that each time you come across a little sister the temptation to murder them to get's more and more strong. Wouldn't that be a more interesting dynamic? Wouldn't that actually be a dilemma?
You can say that people simple don't want to be subjected to this kind of dilemma, that they play the game to escape the world. That's all well and good, and you can keep the game balanced to keep the player happy and safe, but don't call it a moral dilemma!
You suggest that there is an alternate morality - since we don't know if the little sisters are human or not. That's not really a moral dilemma, since you don't go around shooting dogs or animals just because they are inhuman. I don't think there is really ANY significant point at which we stop caring about killing something because it's inhuman - as in the example of the companion cube in portal, or a guilt you might feel if you started kicking a Sony AIBO to death.
Perversely though, almost every main character in a shooter game is a psychopath / mass murderer. The only major games that I have played which really grapple effectively with this idea are Bioshock (ironically enough) which cleverly teaches you something about blind obediance as a player, and hilariously, Saints Row 3, where the game absurdly repeatedly refers to you as simultaneously a mass murderer and a global superstar, which is a parody that makes most game morality seem perverse.
The potential for interactive games is to put players in positions of dilemma that they otherwise wouldn't have to make, but where the penalties for failure are NOT so bad that they would give you a significant psychological shock or penalty.
Think about games like Heavy Rain or The Walking Dead. In those games there are real dilemmas because there are actually consequences for your choices. It isn't simply a cost / benefit analysis when there are no good choices to make.
Quote:
Lol. You sound like a yaoi fangirl.
I'm watching youuuuuuu.
I personally didn't like the CKN70 all that much, but maybe the cheap cable colours my perception. I'm wondering how they will compare to the RE-400 when it arrives.
True. You don't know that killing the little sisters nets you the same amount of adam in the first playthrough. But does the game ever feel difficult because you choose to save the little sisters? Do you get any sense at all that you have made a sacrifice? Even in one playthrough there is no sense of altruism beyond this kind of arbitrary distinction: "I might not be getting enough of this arbitrary number of resource then I otherwise would".
Think about the alternative. Let's say that in Bioshock, you got a significant penalty in terms of adam for saving the little sisters. The game would get increasingly difficult as you play because of this deficit, meaning that each time you come across a little sister the temptation to murder them to get's more and more strong. Wouldn't that be a more interesting dynamic? Wouldn't that actually be a dilemma?
You can say that people simple don't want to be subjected to this kind of dilemma, that they play the game to escape the world. That's all well and good, and you can keep the game balanced to keep the player happy and safe, but don't call it a moral dilemma!
You suggest that there is an alternate morality - since we don't know if the little sisters are human or not. That's not really a moral dilemma, since you don't go around shooting dogs or animals just because they are inhuman. I don't think there is really ANY significant point at which we stop caring about killing something because it's inhuman - as in the example of the companion cube in portal, or a guilt you might feel if you started kicking a Sony AIBO to death.
Perversely though, almost every main character in a shooter game is a psychopath / mass murderer. The only major games that I have played which really grapple effectively with this idea are Bioshock (ironically enough) which cleverly teaches you something about blind obediance as a player, and hilariously, Saints Row 3, where the game absurdly repeatedly refers to you as simultaneously a mass murderer and a global superstar, which is a parody that makes most game morality seem perverse.
The potential for interactive games is to put players in positions of dilemma that they otherwise wouldn't have to make, but where the penalties for failure are NOT so bad that they would give you a significant psychological shock or penalty.
Think about games like Heavy Rain or The Walking Dead. In those games there are real dilemmas because there are actually consequences for your choices. It isn't simply a cost / benefit analysis when there are no good choices to make.
Quote:
adsfasfawe aewfadc awefadcea ewf dying from the cuteness of that statement.
How'd you find out?
Found them in the mail today, I'd assume they'd been in there for a while since I've left all month. Opened them up a few hours ago.
Blue looks gooooood. Also the sound is....just so much detail for the price it's really not funny. Albeit less treble-y than I'd thought they'd be. But that's a good thing considering what I had expected.
Lol. You sound like a yaoi fangirl.
I'm watching youuuuuuu.
I personally didn't like the CKN70 all that much, but maybe the cheap cable colours my perception. I'm wondering how they will compare to the RE-400 when it arrives.
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LOL, I wasn't gonna say anything originally. But if this were a real coffee house, you'd be buying him spiced chais and butternut squash muffins right about now...
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Oh, just to be clear, we're talking about the original Bioshock atm... which is good for you because you can find it in the second-hand bins for about $5 now.
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She does?
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Haha, just when I think I've got my future portable rig narrowed down, you gotta drop that bomb on me! Well, time to jot down a new possible configuration with the CLAS & Rx Mk2. Now I've got four options to choose from. Hey, thanks for the heads-up on the combo BTW!
Quote:Just a stab in the dark here... but you've got a total crush on a_rec right?
Originally Posted by MrViolin /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yes meng. I completely do.but in all seriousness, he gives off an aura of awesomeness/coolness.
Originally Posted by TwinQY /img/forum/go_quote.gif
adsfasfawe aewfadc awefadcea ewf dying from the cuteness of that statement.
LOL, I wasn't gonna say anything originally. But if this were a real coffee house, you'd be buying him spiced chais and butternut squash muffins right about now...
Quote:
Oh, just to be clear, we're talking about the original Bioshock atm... which is good for you because you can find it in the second-hand bins for about $5 now.
Quote:
She does?
Quote:
Haha, just when I think I've got my future portable rig narrowed down, you gotta drop that bomb on me! Well, time to jot down a new possible configuration with the CLAS & Rx Mk2. Now I've got four options to choose from. Hey, thanks for the heads-up on the combo BTW!
TwinQY
Something about the rear end of a cat
Quote:
I sort of am one? I mean, I do enjoy a fair bit of yaoi/yuri every now and then.
.....
...
It's a good thing I don't update that gear list in the profile anymore....stalker-prone.
Guess what I have loaned out? *coughRE400cough*. Still haven't gotten around to comparing though.
Highlight is they are much smoother than the usual AT fare. Maybe not CK100PRO smooth but if everything sounded like that we'd have a pretty sterile world since not everything can pull that off.
Quote:
How kawaii.
$5? Ooh I don't know about that, sounds a bit pricey.
> goes off and buys $80 artbook
I sort of am one? I mean, I do enjoy a fair bit of yaoi/yuri every now and then.
.....
...
It's a good thing I don't update that gear list in the profile anymore....stalker-prone.
Guess what I have loaned out? *coughRE400cough*. Still haven't gotten around to comparing though.
Highlight is they are much smoother than the usual AT fare. Maybe not CK100PRO smooth but if everything sounded like that we'd have a pretty sterile world since not everything can pull that off.
Quote:
LOL, I wasn't gonna say anything originally. But if this were a real coffee house, you'd be buying him spiced chais and butternut squash muffins right about now...
Oh, just to be clear, we're talking about the original Bioshock atm... which is good for you because you can find it in the second-hand bins for about $5 now.
How kawaii.
$5? Ooh I don't know about that, sounds a bit pricey.
> goes off and buys $80 artbook
a_recording
Member of the Trade: Lachlanlikesathing
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Wait. Now I'm confused. I dropped off the face of the planet for a bit and when I came back you and your wifu were in the thread.
Are you girl-ladies?!
The CK100Pro is smooth? I was always worried that it was sibilant. Now I want a pair.
Are you girl-ladies?!
The CK100Pro is smooth? I was always worried that it was sibilant. Now I want a pair.
a_recording
Member of the Trade: Lachlanlikesathing
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Btw, this is the little sisters / Adam graph for anyone who is curious:
DigitalFreak
镇老鹰
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Quote:
No problem and it's the ALO RX MK3-B not the MKII
Why did someone have to bring up the 100 Pro? I've been eyeing that IEM off and on for over a year
Haha, just when I think I've got my future portable rig narrowed down, you gotta drop that bomb on me! Well, time to jot down a new possible configuration with the CLAS & Rx Mk2. Now I've got four options to choose from. Hey, thanks for the heads-up on the combo BTW!
No problem and it's the ALO RX MK3-B not the MKII
Why did someone have to bring up the 100 Pro? I've been eyeing that IEM off and on for over a year
TwinQY
Something about the rear end of a cat
Quote:
You'll have to meet us in person hehe.
But I was referring to the yaoi thing more than anything. Think what you want...
It's shouty and energetic at it's worst. Not strident through the conventional sense. Treble energy (think HD800 but a bit more pronounced) gets fatiguing, really does. If you found the CK10s to be sibilant...well it could still go either way. Amazing clarity though. Probably the clearest UIEM I've ever owned/heard. Both in the perceived-extra-trebley sense and in the natural-clarity sense. Everything just leaks through. Somehow you can get the sense that detail levels on the drivers can't seem to catch up at times next to the absolute clarity.
Also fit/comfort and build is godly. Real solid Japanese stuff.
You'll have to meet us in person hehe.
But I was referring to the yaoi thing more than anything. Think what you want...
It's shouty and energetic at it's worst. Not strident through the conventional sense. Treble energy (think HD800 but a bit more pronounced) gets fatiguing, really does. If you found the CK10s to be sibilant...well it could still go either way. Amazing clarity though. Probably the clearest UIEM I've ever owned/heard. Both in the perceived-extra-trebley sense and in the natural-clarity sense. Everything just leaks through. Somehow you can get the sense that detail levels on the drivers can't seem to catch up at times next to the absolute clarity.
Also fit/comfort and build is godly. Real solid Japanese stuff.
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