[Icarium]

I'm hardly saying the K1000 isn't a top tier phone. I have said multiple times that I like foo_me's zanden set up more than any HE90 set up I've heard too date though Neil's upcoming ES-2 might change that.. but maybe not.

I'm just saying the guy who started this thread seemed to value his bass ;p Therefore I dunno how suitable a K1000 rig would be for him that maybe he should look at something that is a bit stronger in that area ;p

 

[spritzer]

A K1k wouldn't be my first choice for a basshead either. Great headphone none the less and you can build a great system around them for much less then the other top headphones. While the SR-007 is truly the bass king it doesn't have the attack of the older phones with their thicker diaphragms. Both the SR-Lambda and the SR-Omega are much hard hitting in the bass though their driver design and housing compromise it's texture and extension and make it seem loose and uncontrolled.

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif A K1k wouldn't be my first choice for a basshead either.

Why not? The open design makes it a natural for an external subwoofer, which several people have done. A good subwoofer in a K1K rig will give you better bass impact than any other headphone.

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Count me as another who liked the K-1000 bass better than the HE-90. Properly amped and sourced, the K-1000 can have an adequate amount of bass only suffering from not having the full bass impact or fun factor. But the definition and accuracy of the K-1000 bass is one of the many high lites.

That is where the ES1 comes in. HE90 + ES1 goes deeper than any other headphone I've owned, except the K1K with external sub as mentioned above. This is where the weakness of the Omega II lies, as its apparent bass is a hump a bit higher up in the spectrum and not as coherent, while the HE90 seems flat all the way down, and bass sounds fully integrated with the rest of the frequency spectrum. You need the right tubes, though. I finally gave up on the EL34 types and went with the 3D21 adapter. That tube can kick some serious bass out.

 

[morphsci]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsch /img/forum/go_quote.gif That is where the ES1 comes in. HE90 + ES1 goes deeper than any other headphone I've owned, except the K1K with external sub as mentioned above. This is where the weakness of the Omega II lies, as its apparent bass is a hump a bit higher up in the spectrum and not as coherent, while the HE90 seems flat all the way down, and bass sounds fully integrated with the rest of the frequency spectrum. You need the right tubes, though. I finally gave up on the EL34 types and went with the 3D21 adapter. That tube can kick some serious bass out.

Gotta second that 3D21 tube, but they are not inexpensive tubes. With the OII it kicks more bass out but also gives better bass extension. The OI bass does not seem at all loose or uncontrolled on the ES-1 with 3D21's or EL34's. I'm wondering if that's partially a function of the source.

 

[Icarium]

Huh, I had resigned myself to throwing down some cash for the GE fat bottle EL34s but... that adapter sounds damned tempting.

 

[Frihed89]

Hej Calle,

Is it possible that you are being taken advantage of because you are a foreigner and perhaps lack access to information? If your marginal tax rate is the same as mine, you have to make roughly $36,850 to get $14,000 after taxes. I have not heard, seen, or talked with any one about this amp. I also have a very high regard for SP amps, and I own one of the MPX3 versions.

 

[morphsci]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frihed89 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hej Calle, Is it possible that you are being taken advantage of because you are a foreigner and perhaps lack access to information? If your marginal tax rate is the same as mine, you have to make roughly $36,850 to get $14,000 after taxes. I have not heard, seen, or talked with any one about this amp. I also have a very high regard for SP amps, and I own one of the MPX3 versions.

Exactly how is Calle being taken advantage of? And how does he lack information? There seems to be a plethora of information in this thread, plus there is always the search function.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsch /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why not? The open design makes it a natural for an external subwoofer, which several people have done. A good subwoofer in a K1K rig will give you better bass impact than any other headphone.

That's an option but subwoofers are horrible things that sound like crap, no matter how much you spend. Unless you are willing to buy something like the Sound-Lab UB-1 but not everybody is willing to have a 2mx1.5m planar subwoofer in the room

Dunno why though...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsch /img/forum/go_quote.gif That is where the ES1 comes in. HE90 + ES1 goes deeper than any other headphone I've owned, except the K1K with external sub as mentioned above. This is where the weakness of the Omega II lies, as its apparent bass is a hump a bit higher up in the spectrum and not as coherent, while the HE90 seems flat all the way down, and bass sounds fully integrated with the rest of the frequency spectrum. You need the right tubes, though. I finally gave up on the EL34 types and went with the 3D21 adapter. That tube can kick some serious bass out.

If you think that the SR-007 has a bass hump, you are not going to like the SR-Ω. Though I can't understand nor hear this hump people are talking about, the thicker diaphragm adds a different texture to the bass. It's the same when you move up to 2um and higher. The diaphragm thickness can be misleading as the coating has a huge impact on the sound.

The HE90 is rolled off at about 30Hz or even higher (it's in the Sennheiser specs) but this can be a good thing as many speaker users know about the horrors brought along with deep bass and how to control and diffuse it. The deep bass places a huge strain on the amp because of the excessive current needed to control, for instance the SR-007, at the lowest octaves. It's also the reason why the SR-007 can sound so closed in along with the fit issue.

I'm not surprised you gave up on the EL34 as it is a pretty bad tube. While I know that tuberolling works, it is only a band aid and I'm going to fix the problem with a new amp design. An octet of 845s will sure light up a room.

It will not be suitable for the He90 though as it might destroy them with the high voltage swing or cause some serious damage but it will work fine on both Omegas and most ESLs as well. I will go in a different way with the He90 as system matching goes, trying to build on their strengths, while not plunging into the land of euphony like some users have. I've been only using a SRD-7 lately and I might go with a transformer coupled amp, perhaps a 1:1 output trafo, to give them a bit more magic. Buying stock amps is for wimps...

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphsci /img/forum/go_quote.gif Gotta second that 3D21 tube, but they are not inexpensive tubes. With the OII it kicks more bass out but also gives better bass extension. The OI bass does not seem at all loose or uncontrolled on the ES-1 with 3D21's or EL34's. I'm wondering if that's partially a function of the source.

The SR-Ω bass is a bit loose when it has to deal with a lot off things at the same time. The driver can't get rid of the vibrations it causes into the housing so they linger and cause some time smear. It's similar to the effect of Teflon on the high frequencies but it's subtle and very recording dependent. I have to admit that I looked for it since it's hard for me to turn of the analytical side of my brain but it's there.

Btw. How do you like the two Omegas?

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarium /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm hardly saying the K1000 isn't a top tier phone. I have said multiple times that I like foo_me's zanden set up more than any HE90 set up I've heard too date though Neil's upcoming ES-2 might change that.. but maybe not. I'm just saying the guy who started this thread seemed to value his bass ;p Therefore I dunno how suitable a K1000 rig would be for him that maybe he should look at something that is a bit stronger in that area ;p

Agreed, if he is a

, then the K-1000 may not be enough for him. Unless bass quality is what he values.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer No headphone is worth that kind of money...

Agreed. I guess it's up to the buyer, but I don't think I'd ever go past $2K unless it was for 1 headphone that did it all (like maybe the OII

).

Frankly, when you can find used speakers that stand at the threshold of true high end for just above $2K used, it just seems silly to spend more than that on a headphone that doesn't do everything right which is pretty much all of them

That being said, I have thought of spending over $2K, but I'm a value guy and will always find the bang for your buck:

K-1000 (competes with the most expensive)
Melos SHA-1 ($500 modded)
Grado HP-2 ($1,500 I like it better than the $2,500 PS-1)
Aleph 3 (DIY $400 used compared to $1K used for the Pass labs label

)
Shure E500 (comes close to the UE10 and 11 but costs $279)
Modwright Denon 3910 ($2,300 used, prefer it even over the EMM labs stuff. Most analog and best sounding CD player for my preference.)

I'm a bargain shopper what can I say

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's an option but subwoofers are horrible things that sound like crap, no matter how much you spend. Unless you are willing to buy something like the Sound-Lab UB-1 but not everybody is willing to have a 2mx1.5m planar subwoofer in the room Dunno why though...

Agreed - integration never really works even with speakers. I can always see hear the crossover point. Subwoofers are for movies IMHO.

 

[Frihed89]

Where is there a published price of this unit and the options? Nowhere. How large and widespread is the headphone culture in Denmark for him to interact with? It hardly exists and almost all head amps (except for Rega, Naim, Pro-ject) have to be imported. In addition, there is a 25% sales tax on all goods (including transport costs) plus another 9% import duty, so audio products are very costly over here to begin with. How familiar are danish people with dealing with american merchants? Ah, it's the same everywhere. Hardly. Danish people are trusting to a fault and besides when you bargain here 1-2% off is a big deal. So, of course we think we are the world's best rug merchants.

Yes, we have the interent to rely on and Denmark ranks first in the world in internet use.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agreed, if he is a , then the K-1000 may not be enough for him. Unless bass quality is what he values.

Bassheads want exaggerated bass that doesn't even resemble the real thing. Electrostatics are not a good choice for someone with that taste and neither is the K1000.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agreed. I guess it's up to the buyer, but I don't think I'd ever go past $2K unless it was for 1 headphone that did it all (like maybe the OII ). Frankly, when you can find used speakers that stand at the threshold of true high end for just above $2K used, it just seems silly to spend more than that on a headphone that doesn't do everything right which is pretty much all of them

I refuse to pay the "market price" for anything. Value is always user dependent and I have spent silly money for some of my 'stats but nothing resembling the prices being payed for a SR-Ω or He90. I'm also finally off the cable nightmare train because my own cables are much better then most and while not cheap, don't cost 15k$. The internal wiring is also the same and so are the power cables. I've tried a lot of cables and only a handful were equal or just different but equal (Stealth Indra, Kondo Lp).

If you have the option to use speakers, then do so, but many can't use them. Still, there is much more to a high end system them a high end headphone...

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agreed - integration never really works even with speakers. I can always see hear the crossover point. Subwoofers are for movies IMHO.

Martin-Logan is a good case in point. Probably the worst advertisement for the electrostatic principle ever...

Subwoofers shouldn't really be used with movies either since nobody knows how to configure them.

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Bassheads want exaggerated bass that doesn't even resemble the real thing. Electrostatics are not a good choice for someone with that taste and neither is the K1000.

Too true. For that matter, headphones of any kind are a poor choice for a true basshead. For that, you need top quality speakers in a tuned room. A large tuned room.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsch /img/forum/go_quote.gif Too true. For that matter, headphones of any kind are a poor choice for a true basshead. For that, you need top quality speakers in a tuned room. A large tuned room.

Headphones will never compare against a huge sheet of mylar or a few 15" drivers facing you in a large room. Headphones do provide a much cleaner bass then most rooms can muster and that is mostly why I use headphones.