[BobSaysHi]

Quote:

Just ploughed through the most recent 100+ posts on this thread (I got put off after Bill and Vinylcat started exchanging 1,500 word posts). 

 
I must admit even I didn't read those posts.

 

[Bilavideo]

Quote:

Quote:

Just ploughed through the most recent 100+ posts on this thread (I got put off after Bill and Vinylcat started exchanging 1,500 word posts). 

 
I must admit even I didn't read those posts.

 
I just posted a multiple FR chart reply.  To boil it down to the basics, this is what I argued:
 
1) I believe Headroom's FR graphs are old, when it comes to Grados that preceded the 2009 "i" upgrade.  In these old graphs, it's clear that the SR60 is shown as having better bass than any other Prestige Grado - but the worst HF presence.  Traditionally, the SR80 was the same in every respect, except it came with a set of bowls.  As a result, it had the lowest bass but was second only to the 325 in HF presence.  How could this Luke and Leia end up with opposite characteristics when using the "same" driver?  To my thinking, the difference boiled down to the pads.
 
2) If you change out the pads from comfies to bowls, you immediately turn an SR60 into an SR80 (traditionally).  That difference, alone, changes the dynamics radically.  While bass drops precipitously, HF presence spikes up - almost to that of the SR325.
 
3) With wood housing and driver venting, you can boost the bass of the SR60 to levels that would absolutely blow away an unmodded 325.  So much for that.  With a change in cushions, the HF gap collapses radically.  This is before we do anything else to "fix" the SR60's presentation.
 
4) With a number of additional tweaks, the gaps close even further.  Damping the back plate damps things nicely.  Removing the plastic rear grill and plastic button also removes a significant source of unwanted resonance.  By the time we get to shell replacement and grill cloth removal, the soundstage has been cleaned up significantly.  Wiring can also be taken to a level far beyond the 325 by creating a new cable utilizing a four-wire braid of 99.99% pure silver, available online for just under $60, plus $5 for a connector.
 
5) Where the 325 remains unique is in its use of aluminum for the rear chamber.  Not surprisingly, the 325 retains the sharpest edge of the Grados - sharper even than the RS1, the GS1000 or the PS1000.  Whether that's a good thing or not is anybody's guess, but as a criticism of the SR60, it's patently unfair.  If the SR60 is to be criticized for not imitating this aspect of the SR325, we should also criticize the RS1, GS1000 and PS1000.
 
I'm not trying to start a new fight with these people.  I just thought certain things needed to be pointed out.

 

[Armaegis]

The SR80 also has a longer rear chamber than the SR60 does it not?

 

[BobSaysHi]

My Jumbos came today. I am rather impressed. I think it's time to stop tinkering and enjoy what I already have.
 
I found that Jumbos absolutely killed the bass, so I went ahead and punched all ten holes in the back, and it sounds quite nice now. I also removed the cotton (maybe polyester, I'm not quite sure) screen in the front. If Bill posts a video of himself tearing apart a driver, I might try and replace the plastic cage with wood.
 
EDIT: I've changed my mind. Jumbos suck. I'm going to buy wood tomorrow and make distancers to see if that fixes my problem.

 

[schwallman]

 

Jumbos do suck IMO, just got a pair of flats in today, trying to get to my headphones butback to the future is wagging more important.

 

[BobSaysHi]

Quote:

 

Jumbos do suck IMO, just got a pair of flats in today, trying to get to my headphones butback to the future is wagging more important.

It took the fun out of my grados, and I'm pissed about it. My mids, where did they go?

 

[Armaegis]

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I think it's time to stop tinkering and enjoy what I already have.

 
Nonsense!
 
Buy! Consume! Feed the machine! More power!!! *grunt*grunt*grunt*
 
 
 
*cough* ok well now that I've got that out of my system, return to your sensibilities

 

[Bilavideo]

 

Quote:

Jumbos do suck IMO, just got a pair of flats in today, trying to get to my headphones butback to the future is wagging more important.

It took the fun out of my grados, and I'm pissed about it. My mids, where did they go?

 
That's how I felt when I got my GS1000.  Before getting a decent amp, they were not only too polite (Sennheiseresque) but also sibilant.  I blamed it all on the pads.  I kept asking veterans when my GS1000s were going to sound better.  They said it would happen as I wore the pad in.  That seemed like a stupid comeback.  I couldn't believe the quality of my top-dollar Grados was going to be held hostage to how long it took for the material the jumbos were made from to finally begin to decompose.  I kept getting advised to flatten them up by leaving them pressed under books, or put through the washer, et cetera.  I finally snipped a few inches from the front of the pads, forcing a closer ear/driver distance.  This cut out the sibilance and finally made the pads sound okay.  In the meantime, I spent a lot of time swapping out the jumbos for bowls, which had an enormous amount of bass to them with the GS1000.  There was no sibilance with the bowls but I did feel a loss of some of that jumbo-inspired HF.
 
I have since reconsidered many of my initial thoughts about all of this.  The pads didn't sound sibilant when I got my amp and turned up the bass boost nor did the pads sound sibilant with my PS1000 or my SR6000, neither of which sported the same highs as the GS1000.  Whatever magic Grado uses to control tonal balance - beyond what we've talked about - the GS1000 is tuned extra sweet, sweet enough to make diabetics out of all of us.  I dont' know what the "i" version has done but the original GS1000 was bombastic in slam (mid-bass) and unusually sweet in the HF.  I think it was a fetishistic overcompensation (like a 13-year-old boy who dreams of finding a woman with a chest size big enough to throw her down the stairs).  
 
In my first foray into modding, I focused on cushions, simply because they played such a big part in my experience with the GS1000.  I've often thought there needed to be a cushion somewhere between the bowls and the jumbos.  At one time, I added half a layer to my bowls by cutting bowls in half and then flipping the top side over and layering it on top of another set of bowls.  What I had was narrower than the jumbos, but found that sweet spot between too much and too little.  I suspect that restless consumers will come to their own sweet spot performing similar experiments with pads.

 

[BobSaysHi]

Quote:

 

Quote:

Jumbos do suck IMO, just got a pair of flats in today, trying to get to my headphones butback to the future is wagging more important.

It took the fun out of my grados, and I'm pissed about it. My mids, where did they go?

 
That's how I felt when I got my GS1000.  Before getting a decent amp, they were not only too polite (Sennheiseresque) but also sibilant.  I blamed it all on the pads.  I kept asking veterans when my GS1000s were going to sound better.  They said it would happen as I wore the pad in.  That seemed like a stupid comeback.  I couldn't believe the quality of my top-dollar Grados was going to be held hostage to how long it took for the material the jumbos were made from to finally begin to decompose.  I kept getting advised to flatten them up by leaving them pressed under books, or put through the washer, et cetera.  I finally snipped a few inches from the front of the pads, forcing a closer ear/driver distance.  This cut out the sibilance and finally made the pads sound okay.  In the meantime, I spent a lot of time swapping out the jumbos for bowls, which had an enormous amount of bass to them with the GS1000.  There was no sibilance with the bowls but I did feel a loss of some of that jumbo-inspired HF.
 
I have since reconsidered many of my initial thoughts about all of this.  The pads didn't sound sibilant when I got my amp and turned up the bass boost nor did the pads sound sibilant with my PS1000 or my SR6000, neither of which sported the same highs as the GS1000.  Whatever magic Grado uses to control tonal balance - beyond what we've talked about - the GS1000 is tuned extra sweet, sweet enough to make diabetics out of all of us.  I dont' know what the "i" version has done but the original GS1000 was bombastic in slam (mid-bass) and unusually sweet in the HF.  I think it was a fetishistic overcompensation (like a 13-year-old boy who dreams of finding a woman with a chest size big enough to throw her down the stairs).  
 
In my first foray into modding, I focused on cushions, simply because they played such a big part in my experience with the GS1000.  I've often thought there needed to be a cushion somewhere between the bowls and the jumbos.  At one time, I added half a layer to my bowls by cutting bowls in half and then flipping the top side over and layering it on top of another set of bowls.  What I had was narrower than the jumbos, but found that sweet spot between too much and too little.  I suspect that restless consumers will come to their own sweet spot performing similar experiments with pads.

Well, to be fair, I do have a nice amp. It's designed to be good with low impedence headphones. I don't have the best of the best, but my amp does cost significantly more than my headphones do.
 
The problem lies with the Jumbos. The highs are too bright, the mids are too recessed, and the midbass is overpowering. Not to mention the intimacy these headphones used to have is lost with the increased space between the driver and your ear. The bass used to slam, now it thumps like a wet towel. I'll see if I can return these to Amazon, if not, I'll make some distancers and hopefully sell these to an enthusiastic ms1000 modder.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Going back about 5 pages to the dissection of the magnets and the assembly around the voice coil. 
 
If a Grado gets dropped on the floor or subjected to a good jolt, it is possible to damage the driver?  Maybe the magnet shifts or the voice coil separates from the driver or something similar.  I've heard folks say a Grado can be damaged by being dropped, but what happens and how likely is it to cause damage if dropped.  I'm not so worried about my SR60.  It's 13 years old and still going strong through all those years of use and moves and getting knocked around.  I do worry about my 325.  It's heavier and would hit with a harder jolt if it ever got dropped.

 

[Armaegis]

Standard magnets can demagnetize due to impact, but typically a rare earth magnet will not. However, I don't know what kind of magnet is in the grado...
 
The 325 might be more prone to damage if dropped because the aluminum won't absorb the impact as well as the plastic will. Exactly what kind of damage (if any at all), well... you'll just have to drop them to find out.

 

[Majestic]

Off Topic. 
 
Happy new year everyone..
 
Back to the topic....

 

[BobSaysHi]

Off topic. 
 
Are there any other headphones similar to the sr60is that take really well to modding? I'm done messing around with my sr60is, the sound I have is perfect (for some genres). The last thing I'll do is replace the inner plastic driver chamber with a wooden one, but I'm not in any rush to do that.

 

[Bilavideo]

Standard magnets can demagnetize due to impact, but typically a rare earth magnet will not. However, I don't know what kind of magnet is in the grado...
 
The 325 might be more prone to damage if dropped because the aluminum won't absorb the impact as well as the plastic will. Exactly what kind of damage (if any at all), well... you'll just have to drop them to find out.

I dropped my first 325 in a skateboard accident where I broke two fingers.  It scuffed up the aluminum housing.  Other than that, it was good to go.

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

Off topic. 
 
Are there any other headphones similar to the sr60is that take really well to modding? I'm done messing around with my sr60is, the sound I have is perfect (for some genres). The last thing I'll do is replace the inner plastic driver chamber with a wooden one, but I'm not in any rush to do that.

You might want to try some KSC75s.  Those drivers measure amazingly well for the price and pretty good even by standards of 'phones costing more than 20x as much.  They're just trapped in a crappy enclosure.  I'd bet they'd rock if you put them in a nice wooden shell.