urs: the R10s are not really all that much of a closed headphone, in the sense that they block out lots of sound. I would not get the R10s for the purpose of noise cancellation...they do rather poorly at that.
Sony R 10 headphones: buy or not?
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DarkWolf
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Well, the way cybernetics is going, in the future, we will probably be able to mentaly interface with some sort of wireles device and experience sound that our brains can't tell isn't real.
The big kicker will be when we start seeing DIY kits on the net...
The big kicker will be when we start seeing DIY kits on the net...
jatinder
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Hi Kelly,
I'm using a Musical Fidelity Nu-vista M3 integrated amp with the ASL UHC Signature and the R10.
--Jatinder
I'm using a Musical Fidelity Nu-vista M3 integrated amp with the ASL UHC Signature and the R10.
--Jatinder
Hirsch
Why is there a chaplain standing over his wallet?
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Hi Jatinder,
I got off my butt and put my Amperex 6SL7GT's in the EAR. This is an interesting tube so far. It takes the EAR deeper and with more detail than the tubes I was using. However, they need to break in a bit more before trying to sort out the sound. It looks like a GE tube, and it's possible that GE made them for Amperex. However, they don't sound like GE's...
It sounds like I need try running out of a speaker amp, though. I've got the HAP-04, which I've never tried using for that, but it should work...time to put it on the "to do" list.
| Originally posted by jatinder Hi Hirsch, I had some mullard CV569 tubes which sounded gorgeous - they were too big to fit the case back on. I would have been quite happy to leave the lid off except for my 2 year old running riot who would love to be able to pour anything on an "open-top" HP4. |
Hi Jatinder,
I got off my butt and put my Amperex 6SL7GT's in the EAR. This is an interesting tube so far. It takes the EAR deeper and with more detail than the tubes I was using. However, they need to break in a bit more before trying to sort out the sound. It looks like a GE tube, and it's possible that GE made them for Amperex. However, they don't sound like GE's...
It sounds like I need try running out of a speaker amp, though. I've got the HAP-04, which I've never tried using for that, but it should work...time to put it on the "to do" list.
I really wanted to resist doing this...particularly because it'd be off topic I think, and I'm simply not ready to do this...but, I'll leave some general impressions of the Omega II.
1. They are not some kind of a holy grail. I can distinctly see how and why some people came away with a bad taste in their mouth after hearing them...mostly because of tonality. And there seems to be two opposing naysayers regarding the Omega II's tonality.
One camp says that the Omega IIs sound dark on top, and closed in. The other camp says the Omega IIs sound brighter then a cat paw swiping a squeaky clean chalkboard. I happen to live within the former camp. I also think the Omega IIs are far from neutral for the very reason that they seem dark on top, and closed in. Given my taste lies towards being able to hear a crystal clear, loud treble, this should've spelled the Omega II's doom, noh? Yes, and no...there was something else going on that made me want to examine them further. Much further.
2. Like any person with a new toy would do, in our case a new headphone, it is typical within the first few days to nitpick over the new toy like a scanning electron microscope goes over its specimen. Naturally, I did this with the Omega IIs...except that after the first day or two, I found it impossible to do this. I would sit down, try to listen like an analytical audiophile about to plump down $10k on a pair of speakers, and 3 hours later and much CD switching, discover I had gotten nowhere. It got to the point where it became hard to even recognize the Omega II's tonality...it was almost as if the Omega II were_not_there.
I also found myself becoming fascinated with each and every track on every CD I played through them...even tracks I had formerly never given a second thought to. Was it just a new, unique presentation? New toy hype? Either way, the Omega IIs made me want to sit my butt firmly down and just listen.
3. The result is, because of this phenomenon, I need much, much more time to analyze them then I realized. Along with me continuously trying to get used to them, they're also incomparably nitpicky about partnering equipment. Much needs to be done to get the Omega II's to their best...which I expected. One does not attach a V12 engine to a Kia after all.
4. The question popped up of the R10s vs. the Omega IIs. I have nothing conclusive to say about this yet. I will say however that at present, I feel the the Omega IIs are remarkedly better than the R10s at certain elements, such being able to simultaneously execute detail retrieval, maintain "naturalness", be forgiving, and most important of all, be transparent...all in one breath. As alluded to above, the Omega IIs are currently the most transparent headphone I've listened to, to date. That is, the longer I listen to them, the less and less I notice them. They seemingly just vanish, and I am left behind with the music. With the R10s, I couldn't help but notice that there was still something between me and the music, and I don't mean in the sense of physical comfort or the fact that I'm using a headphone. There was something about the R10s that called attention to itself. I also have a pair of Stax Lambda Pros, and the same could be said for them. They loudly call attention to themselves as well...making them very useful for analyzing, but not so well for musical enjoyment.
Part of it perhaps has to do with which types of music work well with what. I honestly feel the Omega IIs handle every type of music very well...much more so then the R10s. I feel the R10's primary weakness in not being able to play back every genre well lies in its overly weak bass. I don't feel the Omega IIs are limited to classical or "polite" music only. I've even thrown poorly recorded rap at them and it's replicated just fine, if not better then I've heard with most other headphones.
************************************************
I don't claim to speak for everybody that has ever heard the Omega IIs. And neither am I through analyzing and observing their performance. But, the above is what I have gathered over the past 2 months of using them. Just my opinion, based on my own ears, based on my own partnering equipment and tastes. My goal was to offer some counter-impressions to the somewhat negative reviews/impressions I've read in here and on Headfi regarding the Omega IIs over the past few months. Take it with a grain of salt...I'll be back with more some time in the near future.
1. They are not some kind of a holy grail. I can distinctly see how and why some people came away with a bad taste in their mouth after hearing them...mostly because of tonality. And there seems to be two opposing naysayers regarding the Omega II's tonality.
One camp says that the Omega IIs sound dark on top, and closed in. The other camp says the Omega IIs sound brighter then a cat paw swiping a squeaky clean chalkboard. I happen to live within the former camp. I also think the Omega IIs are far from neutral for the very reason that they seem dark on top, and closed in. Given my taste lies towards being able to hear a crystal clear, loud treble, this should've spelled the Omega II's doom, noh? Yes, and no...there was something else going on that made me want to examine them further. Much further.
2. Like any person with a new toy would do, in our case a new headphone, it is typical within the first few days to nitpick over the new toy like a scanning electron microscope goes over its specimen. Naturally, I did this with the Omega IIs...except that after the first day or two, I found it impossible to do this. I would sit down, try to listen like an analytical audiophile about to plump down $10k on a pair of speakers, and 3 hours later and much CD switching, discover I had gotten nowhere. It got to the point where it became hard to even recognize the Omega II's tonality...it was almost as if the Omega II were_not_there.
3. The result is, because of this phenomenon, I need much, much more time to analyze them then I realized. Along with me continuously trying to get used to them, they're also incomparably nitpicky about partnering equipment. Much needs to be done to get the Omega II's to their best...which I expected. One does not attach a V12 engine to a Kia after all.
4. The question popped up of the R10s vs. the Omega IIs. I have nothing conclusive to say about this yet. I will say however that at present, I feel the the Omega IIs are remarkedly better than the R10s at certain elements, such being able to simultaneously execute detail retrieval, maintain "naturalness", be forgiving, and most important of all, be transparent...all in one breath. As alluded to above, the Omega IIs are currently the most transparent headphone I've listened to, to date. That is, the longer I listen to them, the less and less I notice them. They seemingly just vanish, and I am left behind with the music. With the R10s, I couldn't help but notice that there was still something between me and the music, and I don't mean in the sense of physical comfort or the fact that I'm using a headphone. There was something about the R10s that called attention to itself. I also have a pair of Stax Lambda Pros, and the same could be said for them. They loudly call attention to themselves as well...making them very useful for analyzing, but not so well for musical enjoyment.
Part of it perhaps has to do with which types of music work well with what. I honestly feel the Omega IIs handle every type of music very well...much more so then the R10s. I feel the R10's primary weakness in not being able to play back every genre well lies in its overly weak bass. I don't feel the Omega IIs are limited to classical or "polite" music only. I've even thrown poorly recorded rap at them and it's replicated just fine, if not better then I've heard with most other headphones.
************************************************
I don't claim to speak for everybody that has ever heard the Omega IIs. And neither am I through analyzing and observing their performance. But, the above is what I have gathered over the past 2 months of using them. Just my opinion, based on my own ears, based on my own partnering equipment and tastes. My goal was to offer some counter-impressions to the somewhat negative reviews/impressions I've read in here and on Headfi regarding the Omega IIs over the past few months. Take it with a grain of salt...I'll be back with more some time in the near future.
Hirsch
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Quote:
I can't speak to the Omega II's, but I do have some ideas on the R10's bass response. I've managed some configurations where I've been able to get a very powerful and visceral bass response out of the R10...but at a sacrifice of the midrange and high transparency. The lean bass response under load is something I've run into with speakers, when powering them with an amp that didn't have enough current behind it. That's why I think Jatinder's approach of using a speaker amp adapter may ultimately be the best way to drive these headphones. Beef up the amplification, and let a really powerful amp feed the headphone. Remember, in the manual Sony had a power amp adapter as an option for the R10. Headphone amps were not where they are today back in 1989, and most headphones were driven out of a convenient headphone jack. I suspect Sony realized the futility of this.
I don't think the weak bass is inherent in the headphone, but rather that the headphone, despite it's apparent efficiency, really needs a lot of power behind it...much more than the specs would indicate.
| Originally posted by Vertigo-1 Part of it perhaps has to do with which types of music work well with what. I honestly feel the Omega IIs handle every type of music very well...much more so then the R10s. I feel the R10's primary weakness in not being able to play back every genre well lies in its overly weak bass. I don't feel the Omega IIs are limited to classical or "polite" music only. I've even thrown poorly recorded rap at them and it's replicated just fine, if not better then I've heard with most other headphones. |
I can't speak to the Omega II's, but I do have some ideas on the R10's bass response. I've managed some configurations where I've been able to get a very powerful and visceral bass response out of the R10...but at a sacrifice of the midrange and high transparency. The lean bass response under load is something I've run into with speakers, when powering them with an amp that didn't have enough current behind it. That's why I think Jatinder's approach of using a speaker amp adapter may ultimately be the best way to drive these headphones. Beef up the amplification, and let a really powerful amp feed the headphone. Remember, in the manual Sony had a power amp adapter as an option for the R10. Headphone amps were not where they are today back in 1989, and most headphones were driven out of a convenient headphone jack. I suspect Sony realized the futility of this.
I don't think the weak bass is inherent in the headphone, but rather that the headphone, despite it's apparent efficiency, really needs a lot of power behind it...much more than the specs would indicate.
jatinder
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...just another headphone with a bunch of idiots.
| ...just another idiot with a bunch of headphones. |
...just another headphone with a bunch of idiots.
pigmode
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What about the RKV which is known for its bass response? I've heard the combo briefly, and it was nice...
kelly
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Quote:
I didn't find the R10 lacking in bass response with the RKV, but Hirsch doesn't seem happy with it. *shrug*
| Originally posted by pigmode What about the RKV which is known for its bass response? I've heard the combo briefly, and it was nice... |
I didn't find the R10 lacking in bass response with the RKV, but Hirsch doesn't seem happy with it. *shrug*
Hirsch
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It's odd. I'm used to British monitor type speakers. Until recently my primaries were Celestion SL600's, which roll off at 55Hz, and before that KEF 101.1's which roll off at about 80 Hz. Neither of those struck me as bass deficient. However, with the R10, I'm usually very aware that the bass response isn't up to the rest of the frequency range.
My listening to the R10 with the RKV was for a couple of relatively short periods. It didn't appear to solve my bass issues with the R10. I still like the amp, tho
| Originally posted by kelly I didn't find the R10 lacking in bass response with the RKV, but Hirsch doesn't seem happy with it. *shrug* |
It's odd. I'm used to British monitor type speakers. Until recently my primaries were Celestion SL600's, which roll off at 55Hz, and before that KEF 101.1's which roll off at about 80 Hz. Neither of those struck me as bass deficient. However, with the R10, I'm usually very aware that the bass response isn't up to the rest of the frequency range.
My listening to the R10 with the RKV was for a couple of relatively short periods. It didn't appear to solve my bass issues with the R10. I still like the amp, tho
pigmode
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I'd bet that those Brit speakers have a mid-bass hump to try to make up for the lower octave.
My LS3/5a rolled off considerably higher than my present speakers, but due to a substantial mid-bass hump had lots more slam with many recordings.
My LS3/5a rolled off considerably higher than my present speakers, but due to a substantial mid-bass hump had lots more slam with many recordings.
pigmode
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Any R-10 owners have the Checky/ Rebecca Pidgeon/ The Raven CD/SACD?
Can you tell how the reveberant qualities of the recording venue almost overpowers her voice on some parts the songs The Raven and Spanish Halem?
Can you tell how the reveberant qualities of the recording venue almost overpowers her voice on some parts the songs The Raven and Spanish Halem?
Hirsch
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I have that SACD, but I've never heard it over headphones. I've only played it in my speaker setup. I'll give it a try with the EAR/R10.
| Originally posted by pigmode Any R-10 owners have the Checky/ Rebecca Pidgeon/ The Raven CD/SACD? Can you tell how the reveberant qualities of the recording venue almost overpowers her voice on some parts the songs The Raven and Spanish Halem? |
I have that SACD, but I've never heard it over headphones. I've only played it in my speaker setup. I'll give it a try with the EAR/R10.
jatinder
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I have The Raven and listen to it a lot -- can't say I've come across some "reverberation" that overpowers her voice through headphones or speakers.
With the R10, a number of people have talked about some "echoey" or "cavernous" sound-like qualities. I don't think that I hear this on my setup.
I'll listen to it again over the next few days and watch out for it.
--Jatinder
With the R10, a number of people have talked about some "echoey" or "cavernous" sound-like qualities. I don't think that I hear this on my setup.
I'll listen to it again over the next few days and watch out for it.
--Jatinder
SliPkNoT
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If you have bad luck like me, and can't seem to locate a used pair for around 1500, just buy the things new. I am at the point where I might have to steal a pair somewhere or something. I really don't care about the Sennheiser Orpheus or Stax stuff. I just want a blasted R10 darn it !!!
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