[Nik]

Hi Hirsch,

nice to speak with you directely....

I have two pairs of Sylvania brown base, the 4 mached and two pairs of RCA red base 5691.... all the tubes never used, just tested in my HP-4. I agree with you the HP-4 can be upgraded a little, but is always the same amp after all... I try to convince my friends that really the R-10 needs a very special partner. I hope one day you can to listen the "R-10 System". Now I'm upgrading even the R-10H with the Western Electric 437A tubes (rare and expensive- 250$ a pair) and still waiting for the ALPS RK50, I'll tell you about the new test...

Best regards
Nicola

 

[Hirsch]

If you're looking for ways to buy the R10, this thread make be of interest.

 

[mcgino]

So I have been comparing my new (used) R10s to the HD600s. I know that this has been debated a lot before, but I thought I'd chime in my opinion. Neither my R10s or HD600s have really "burned in" yet, though the R10s are fairly vintage (#17). As much as I like the HD600s, I think the R10s sound a lot better for MOST music.

The only piece I prefered the HD600s to so far has been the Dickies rendition of Silent Night. The guitars were flying all over the place out of control through the R10s (kinda cool though). Other hardcore sounded OK though (Institutionalized - Suicidal Tendencies).

Most other rock (Money - Pink Floyd, various Police, Eagles, Dire Straits), classical (Wagner, Williams, Tchaikovsky, Sakamoto), and Jazz (Tower of Power, Metheny, Miles Davis) sounded a lot clearer and better placed through the R10s. Especially dynamic, "busy" pieces like Squib Cakes by Tower of Power.

The bass kicks more through the HD600s, but it seems a lot more "blurred" compared to the R10s. It's there (bass) through the R10s and a lot clearer texture-wise.

The highs on the R10 are a lot better than the HD600s. High hats and cymbols are clearly articulated. Staging is really amazing (I thought the HD600s were before I got the R10s). Placement of sounds and comfort beat the Etys.

The R10s also pointed out more clearly to me what the Cosmic Reference was doing (Headroom crossfeed, bright and brighter filters). Could really hear how the effects impact the texture of the sounds.

Just some thoughts as I am now listening... actually found another one that sounds better on the HD600s. Wild Wild West by Will Smith. This piece can use the bass kick that the HD600s add. There is a sliding bass through the piece that sounds more balanced through the HD600s. Too much stuff going on in the mid-highs that come though kinda tinny in the R10s without the bass kick of the HD600s.

I'm still new to this writing about what I hear thing. Will let Joe Bloggs listen and provide his more articulate comments when I see him next.

Until then, I've got a feeling it is going to be a long, but enjoyable night...

Pretty funny. The shop dealer that I bought these phones from and called me to tell me that he forgot to give me something. I went all the way back and he gave me a leather tag that says MDR-R10...

I really appreciate the feel and craftsmanship of these phones. Reminds me of when I got my first mechanical watch.

 

[Vka]

I guess I haven't posted in a while, but here goes....

I had TWO R-10 for sale once, but I guess you missed it.
One was like 6 years old and I sold that dirt cheap for around $1600 I believe. The other one was brand new only 2 weeks old and used for less than 5 hours. That one was made in 2002, hehe. That sold for dirt cheap as well.

I have to admit I kinda miss the R-10s although I felt in my setup the R-10 was kinda lost in between the HP-1 and Orpheus. For classical, jazz, sacds, and good recording, the Orpheus blow away the R-10 and HP-1. For everything else, I prefer the DCT-1/HP-1 as I find the midrange very seducting. Thats the problem of the R-10 as it has some quality of both Orpheus and HP-1 but never good enough for each of the particular genre.
The question is IF I had one phone to cover the most TYPES of music, I would probably choose R-10 over Orpheus and HP-1. But if you have the money, buy more headphones as I have found out certain phones perform better for certain type of music. This is what I have done as I found the Hp-1 to perform better than R-10 in certain music and Orpheus to perform better in other music.

How does the Stax Omega II fit into all of these? Unfortunately, its only perform well in classicals and good recordings. However, the Orpheus easily surpassed it. I think the amp is what is limiting the sound of the Staxes. However, ALL MY FRIENDS and I think the Stax is inferior to all 3 headphones mentioned above.

 

[mcgino]

OK. One Love by Bob Marley - Legend. This piece really shows the difference between the R10s and HD600s. In the R10s, the bass is evenly balanced with the vocals (with delay), drums, and background vocals. The vocals, drums, and lead vocals are also very "airy" distributed across the stage (as if you are among the singers). With the 600s, the bass feels like there's a sub in the room. That Velodyne kinda punch. The vocals and other instruments are a bit more veiled. Especially the female vocals "one love, one heart..." The vocals are compressed, but the lack of richness makes the HD600s seem evem more compressed vs. the richness of the R10s.

 

[jatinder]

Hi Vka,

I agree with you that if I could only have one pair of headphones then it would be the R10. The Orpheus is distinctly better than the R10 when it comes to naturalness and ease.

So I find myself listening to the Orpheus now much more than the R10.

The R10 definitely needs a better amp than my current HP4. When I drive the R10 via the speaker outputs on my power amp (via an ASL UHC Signature), then the sound is completely transformed with apparently deeper bass, a slightly brighter top-end and a sense of increased detail. I haven't had time though to really compare it to the HP4.

With the Omega II -- when I first listened to it I thought it blew away the Orpheus and R10. It was only after a few days and after listening to various pieces of music, that the Omega II/SRM-007t combo became unlistenable to me - and this was entirely due to the slightly unnatural forwardness of the treble, the exaggerated bass and the lack of "volume". Knowing that the R10 and Orpheus sound very natural and at ease, the Omega II irritated me whenever I listened to it. (I was listening to the headphones rather than the music.)

From what a number of people have said though, the amp (SRM-007t) is the weak link in the chain and replacing that may fix fix the problems I found with the Omega II/SRM-007t.

I know of one person in the UK who owns an Orpheus and an Omega II/SRM-T2 combo. He is adamant that the Omega II/SRM-T2 easily outperforms the Orpheus (which he only keeps as it looks nice). Someday, I hope to listen to it.

--Jatinder

 

[urs]

This interesting thread triggers two questions for me:

1) Actually, I’m a very happy Omega 2 owner with 007t driver, who has climbed up the STAX ladder and hence doesn’t have much non-electrostatic reference or experience.
Frequently I read, that the 007 T driver has room for improvements.
– What exactly needs to be changed (new tubes / valves – which type ?)
- what other adjustments would then be necessary ?

2) The only draw-back of the STAX is (for my use) the open design, especially the rather high sound emissions and likewise bad insulation against out-side noise . I’m frequently listening to classical / operas, while my partner, in the same room, enjoys some back-ground easy listening via the speakers.
Hence my query: Are the Sony R-10 really a viable alternative to the Omega ? Are they still available (I get conflicting messages to this point) and lastly – what amp is “the Word” for the R-10?


Thanks for opinions & advise
Urs

PS: the STAX 4070 is NOT an alternative!!

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by jatinder The R10 definitely needs a better amp than my current HP4. When I drive the R10 via the speaker outputs on my power amp (via an ASL UHC Signature), then the sound is completely transformed with apparently deeper bass, a slightly brighter top-end and a sense of increased detail. I haven't had time though to really compare it to the HP4.

Hi Jatinder,

This gives me another interesting approach. I've been lazy, and have yet to run my R10's out of the Electrocompaniet power amp (but I've got the Radii Audio adapter to do it). I suspected that this might be the case, as the lean low end of the R10 suggests that it's being slightly underpowered out of a headphone amp. Although it cleanly reaches high volume levels easily, the low end response suggest to me that it wants more current (this has been the case with some speakers I have owned).

On another positive note, I've had some good luck rolling tubes in the EAR. I like the tonality of the Sylvania 6SL7WGT's, but they lack dynamics. I love the high and low end extensions of the GE tubes, but they tend to be thin in the midrange. So I wound up with a combination. I'm using a pair of Sylvanias close to the input, and a pair of Westinghouse (which appear to be Tung Sol, who sourced from GE) as the driver tubes. This was a lucky match, as it seems to keep the tone of the Syls, while adding the punch of the Westinghouse. (The midrange of the Syls seems to have been best in the early 50's, as later tubes tend to be thinner sounding, IME). I still think there's room for improvement, but I've got a number of other options I can try, one of which is having a higher case custom made for the EAR. There's a shop near me that can do this work. That would allow use of tall bottle tubes, and I've got a quad of Amperex 6SL7GT's I'm dying to try.

 

[jatinder]

Hi Hirsch,

I had some mullard CV569 tubes which sounded gorgeous - they were too big to fit the case back on.

I would have been quite happy to leave the lid off except for my 2 year old running riot who would love to be able to pour anything on an "open-top" HP4.

Urs - with the Omega II/007t, I'm not at all sure what needs to be changed in the amp or if its a headphone issue.

The question of whether or not the R10 is a viable alternative to the Omega II is completely dependent on your tastes, equipment, phase of the moon etc.

The Omega II/T2 combo is apparently much better than the Orpheus (although I've never heard it), but I found the Omega II/007t combo to be very good but overall unlistenable compared to the R10 and Orpheus.

--Jatinder

 

[mcgino]

So it looks like I should probably get a good amp for my R10. Is the EAR still the amp to get (short of getting Nik's designer friend to build a custom amp)? Headmaster? I know I should go and listen for myself, but amp selection where I am at is limited. Most of my listening so far has been through a Cosmic Reference and Yamaha DSP-A1.

Was thinking of getting a HEAD amp (e.g., Twin Head). I know that they are new, but has anyone tried them with R10s? or HP-1s?

Kinda scared to take the first step along the upgrade path...

 

[Nik]

There is only one amplifier for the R-10.... the R-10H....!!!!!!

 

[TimSchirmer]

I'm sorry... but you could get a pair of PSB Stratus for that price, and i'm 100% sure that they would CRUSH, KILL, AND DESTROY the pretty little wood headphones.

 

[Nik]

The question was about a amp for the R-10...
About the Loudspeakers... you said.... are they so good???

 

[kelly]

Sometimes I don't understand why some individuals decide to join a thread. I notice most folks are better at ignoring them than I am so I'll strive to do better.

Jatinder
Very interesting comments regarding the ASL UHC Signature. What is the speaker amp that you're using with it? I've considered that using one with a Classe 201 might make for a good dynamic headphone amp. Unfortunately, the local person who owned a Classe 201 sold it to fund his HeadRoom Max so if I take the leap with the UHC, I still have to find a good amp to try it on.

I wish you could convince your T2 and Orpheus owning friend to participate on Head-Fi. I'm betting Kevin Gilmore would like to talk with him too.

mcgino
Your impressions of R10 vs HD600 are similar to mine, though I don't actually like that "seductive" bass hump in the HD600 as much as some other people do. If you plan to keep the HD600, you may want to consider the Cardas cable, by the way.

vka
I wish I'd gotten to hear the HP-1 on the DCT-1 from the WOH tour but I honestly think something was wrong with the amp they had anyway (or perhaps it was just more sensitive to the switchers and being moved around than some of the other amps). With the HD600 and RS-1, I thought the amp was on the syruppy side--that overly lush murky sound that solid state people insist all tube amps sound like and that "tube lovers" claim is required for good sound.

The HP-1 is easily my favorite sounding dynamic headphone but it's always surprising to me that people when other people who like the HP-1 don't find favor with the Stax 404 and 007.

 

[markl]

FWIW, I use a Melos Maestro with my R10 and bass is very satisfying with this combo, plus rest of the spectrum sounds great, too. You can click on the various links in my signature below for reviews.

Quote:

I'm sorry... but you could get a pair of PSB Stratus for that price, and i'm 100% sure that they would CRUSH, KILL, AND DESTROY the pretty little wood headphones.

As owner of a pair of Stratus Goldi's, I can confirm that *in most areas* they are definitely better than headphones, even the mighty R10. If you have the space and forgiving neighbors, speakers still offer a more realistic experience than headphones. That will continue to be the case until science learns how to shrink an orchestra down to size, put 'em in a cup and strap the Philharmonic to your head.

Mark