[braddo99]

Hey folks, I've just picked up an ES100 bluetooth receiver to use with my Alclair custom IEMs. The cable on the IEMs is standard length and constantly snagging on things, I'd like to locate some shorter cables that fit the 2 pin ~7mm connectors on these IEMs. Any recommendations? I've seen Fiio ones on Amazon but they're the MMCX style.

Then, I've seen lots of references to balanced cables for IEMs. I've dabbled in pro audio and know what a balanced cable is in that context. I've seen the wiring diagrams for balanced IEM cables and it seems like it's not a real thing... doesn't the end receiver i.e. the drivers themselves need a circuit that summs the balanced signals and subtracts the delta? If there's some benefit from the IEM style balancing maybe it also makes sense to consider such cables in the same breath as above - shorties.

Anyone can provide links or justification?

Thanks!

B

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I don't know about 2 pin cables since the few IEMs I have use MMCX which I prefer.

As far as balanced cables, probably the only place it makes sense is on IEMs since DAPs are portable devices and have low power. You get double the output when running off the balanced output as opposed to the single-ended output.

Maybe ask here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low-end-cheap-generic-otherwise-bang-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/ for the cable you are looking for.

 

[braddo99]

Thanks for the reply! I can't yet post to other threads since I'm a new member, but I'll check that thread, thanks for the tip.

Meanwhile, I don't think you get double the signal unless the IEM itself has a processor to do the summing and subtraction of the phased signals to get back to the original. The cable doesn't do that by itself and actually kind of looks just like a regular cable with longer (separate?) ground leads.

I don't know about 2 pin cables since the few IEMs I have use MMCX which I prefer.

As far as balanced cables, probably the only place it makes sense is on IEMs since DAPs are portable devices and have low power. You get double the output when running off the balanced output as opposed to the single-ended output.

Maybe ask here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low-end-cheap-generic-otherwise-bang-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/ for the cable you are looking for.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I really don't think that can be right. A balanced XLR connection has 4 pins- that's 2 wires to each side (right/left). The balanced part happens in the amp as far as I know.

 

[surfgeorge]

A balanced output from an amplifier or DAP has usually more power and a higher signal to noise rate.

On a single end connection, one wire carries the amplified signal.
The other wire is connected to ground, and since ground is never perfectly clean it carries some electrical noise.
The amplitude of the resulting signal is the difference between the 0 (+noise) from ground and the signal wire.

On a balanced connection you basically have 2 amplifiers, one producing a positive signal wave, the other one an opposing negative wave.
This doubles the amplitude of the resulting differential signal, and, because both amplifiers are fed by the same supply but generate opposing signals, the ground noise is elminated.

This does not mean that a balanced output has to be better, a well done single ended output can be as clean and powerful - see the Chord Mojo.
But as a rule of thumb, with conventional DAC/amps the balanced output will be better than the single ended.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Thank you for the concise explanation. That may be the best one I have read.

 

[surfgeorge]

Buy me a Starobrno and we are even

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I actually had to look that up. I don't think I have seen a bottle of it before.

They use Saaz hops and malt from Moravia. I can imagine it will taste similar to Pilsner Urquell.

Now I'll have to try to find it. So in fact, you will have to buy me one

 

[surfgeorge]

Can do that! The best Staro is exported thoug, you might need to come down south

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I am sure we can work out something.

I doubt the unfiltered lager is exported. You will probably come for a visit!

 

[buke9]

Thanks for the reply! I can't yet post to other threads since I'm a new member, but I'll check that thread, thanks for the tip.

Meanwhile, I don't think you get double the signal unless the IEM itself has a processor to do the summing and subtraction of the phased signals to get back to the original. The cable doesn't do that by itself and actually kind of looks just like a regular cable with longer (separate?) ground leads.

Most balanced amps do double their output per same impedance single ended connection. Not real sure what you mean by summing and subtraction of the phased signals but the headphone or load if you will is part of the circuit and not longer leads to ground but separate for each side .

 

[darrylchew]

Hey folks, I've just picked up an ES100 bluetooth receiver to use with my Alclair custom IEMs. The cable on the IEMs is standard length and constantly snagging on things, I'd like to locate some shorter cables that fit the 2 pin ~7mm connectors on these IEMs. Any recommendations? I've seen Fiio ones on Amazon but they're the MMCX style.

Then, I've seen lots of references to balanced cables for IEMs. I've dabbled in pro audio and know what a balanced cable is in that context. I've seen the wiring diagrams for balanced IEM cables and it seems like it's not a real thing... doesn't the end receiver i.e. the drivers themselves need a circuit that summs the balanced signals and subtracts the delta? If there's some benefit from the IEM style balancing maybe it also makes sense to consider such cables in the same breath as above - shorties.

Anyone can provide links or justification?

Thanks!

B

Hi I am using a 16 core silver/copper MMCX cable. Balanced via a fiio q5 which have both balanced and normal output. I dunno how to explain.. But trying on both output is a big difference.. No more unbalanced for me.

 

[buke9]

Hi I am using a 16 core silver/copper MMCX cable. Balanced via a fiio q5 which have both balanced and normal output. I dunno how to explain.. But trying on both output is a big difference.. No more unbalanced for me.

Other than more power do you not hear things on the single ended connection that you do on the balanced after turning the volume down to match it with the level of the single ended? You actually need to explain if you think someone needs to spend money on “no more unbalanced for me” as you proclaim.

 

[darrylchew]

First immediate notice is a wider stage. I don't like sound to be right in the middle of the head. I like it further front like the music is coming from the front. I also think the clarity is Better. However I change from 3.5 to 2.5mm balanced cos I got a new cable to try the 2.5mm. So it might be the cable too.
Actually I wasnt thinking that someone should spend more money on balanced. I was just sharing my thoughts after using balanced.
So for those who wants to go balanced.. Do do more reading on this area by other users too. Then go by law of averages I guess... More say good.. Must be quite good I guess...or the other wy round too.

 

[PaganDL]

Hey folks, I've just picked up an ES100 bluetooth receiver to use with my Alclair custom IEMs. The cable on the IEMs is standard length and constantly snagging on things, I'd like to locate some shorter cables that fit the 2 pin ~7mm connectors on these IEMs. Any recommendations? I've seen Fiio ones on Amazon but they're the MMCX style.

Then, I've seen lots of references to balanced cables for IEMs. I've dabbled in pro audio and know what a balanced cable is in that context. I've seen the wiring diagrams for balanced IEM cables and it seems like it's not a real thing... doesn't the end receiver i.e. the drivers themselves need a circuit that summs the balanced signals and subtracts the delta? If there's some benefit from the IEM style balancing maybe it also makes sense to consider such cables in the same breath as above - shorties.

Anyone can provide links or justification?

Thanks!

B

HI @braddo99,

First of all, welcome to headfi...apologies to your wallet in advance...

I suggest looking at veclan.com for highly affordable custom cables options where the shortest I believe is 10 Cm though one thing to keep in mind, as of time of writing this, it is Chinese New Year so they may be on Holidays for up to 10 days, usually till end of the month...
So even if you order now, you won't get anything till early Feb.

@surfgeorge already provided a good explaination but I will also add a bit more...
Basically in portable audio &/or hifi, balanced cables are treated differently overall to Pro Audio, where in the Pro side, more often than not, balanced cables are necessary as most gear is either TRS/TRRS or XLR for better signal strength more than anything else.
In portable audio/hifi, there tends to be an automatic assumption balanced cables are distinctly better & whether one can hear differences between Single Ended VS Balanced is highly subjective & controversally debatable...
Personally, I lean in from the pro side as I have more pro gear than actual hifi/portable so bottom line, more often than not, balanced cables simply provide a stronger signal as already referenced by @surfgeorge but this doesn't mean it's automatically better though more often than not, also provides a lower noise floor on top, anything else is usually Perception & Expectation Bias coming into play.

The other thing most still get confused about is how many poles or rings a plug should have for balanced plug cables, the answer is 3 poles as anything more is usually for an attached microphone &/or power for that microphone signal.
But sometimes, audio manufacturers & cable makers can often cheat by how their plug is wired so if a plug looks like it has the standard stereo 2 poles or rings, it may be able be wired for extra ground & signal internally though this is very uncommon to rare.
As such, using a 3.5 mm Balanced plug (3 Poles), you can usually tell if gear runs off a balanced circuit, especially from the Single Ended side as if it is Balanced, then audio from both channels will be heard, if not, usually only from the right though sometimes it is switched around...

Not real sure what you mean by summing and subtraction of the phased signals but the headphone or load if you will is part of the circuit and not longer leads to ground but separate for each side.

@buke9,
Basically @braddo99 is talking about turning a Stereo Audio Signal into Mono via summing which essentially is just blending sound till it appears more 'centered' in staging rather than distinct left & right, similar to how if you had a centre channel speaker with your standard left & right speaker pair then simply switched off the audio signal to said left & right or took them away.
This is what in the pro audio world, call listening Mono though unlike hifi or portable audio, both left & right are heard...just coming from the centre stage.

Hope everyone has a great day !