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Originally Posted by slackman /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I don't own the JH13pro, but several things said about them make me wary.
First of all, they sound good out of an Ipod??
This means to me that they can not be very neutral, uncolored and reveiling.
I've allways thought a good headphone should allow one to hear that the source is bad.
Just like a good headphone means to me that badly mixed music sounds bad (as it's the way it sounds)
Second thing I don't like about the reviews is that it doesn't have a very good soundstage.
Soundstage is something that's in the music, recording of the room / hall or an artificial reverberator etc.
When a headphone can't reproduce this soundstage very well this means that it's not reproducing the music very well.
How can a heaphone that makes bad sources sound good and can't reproduce a good soundstage be considered audiophile and better than the HD800 on this forum??
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slackman /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Ah no indeed, it wasn't said anywhere that the JH13 has a bad soundstage.
Only that the HD800 has a technically better soundstage and a much wider soundstage.
Wide soundstage without hole in the middle is a very good thing.
The iPod I think is a pretty bad source.
I'm not talking about it's amp, I would never use a headphone out of an iPod amp.
I ment the DAC, it has a lousy DAC and I expect a great headphone to make this audible.
If the headphone doesn't make the bad DAC audible how can I expect this same headphone to reveal all the true details of an amazing recording played through a great DAC and amp without masking anything?
Furthermore, one thing I really like in headphones is that they're usually single driver.
In this area headphones have allmost all speakers beat.
The JH13 has no less than 6 drivers and 2 crossover points. This has to affect audio, it does so in speakers and the best speakers have very large crossover filters.
How can JH13 pack all this in such a small package and then still beat the HD800?
Sounds near impossible to me.
Furthermore I have only one experience with an in ear monitor.
It was several years ago when I bought an Etymotic ER4 based on reviews.
It sounded absolutely terrible to me (yes I had them plugged in deep enough).
With all of the above taken into account I'm very wary of reviews that say the JH13 is a HD800 killer.
I'm currently not buying it. Though hope I'll have a chance one day to try them out.
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You have some valid concerns.
In my opinion there are different levels of good sound - I can enjoy an HD600 on an EF2 amp ($450 total) and say it sounds good. But that doesn't mean that it's as good as my HD800 on a ZDT amp ($4000 total) that I also think sounds good. So in a similar fashion, if the JH13Pro can be entertaining on an iPod and not suck but rather sound enjoyable instead, that doesn't mean the JH13Pro are glossing over anything - it just means the JH13Pro do a better job of reproducing the music than other headphones.
The details about what the sound is like counts more than saying simply it is good or not. But the iPod is not the best tool to review the JH13Pro - so I didn't focus on the details of what the iPod sounds like vs using the better amps or desktop rig. In my review I glossed over the details of how they sound with the iPods in order to focus on whether they are a decent match or not in terms of frequency response, or whether there is a lack of synergy that puts the frequency balance all out of whack. I covered the JH13Pro's best sound using my best rig, not my iPods. If I wanted to review several iPods, the JH13Pro would be a good tool to review the iPod.
I did go on about a little of that - I have said that the JH13pro reveal my 4G Nano to be bright which it is with other phones, and that I enjoy the JH13pro more on my iPhone 3G/GS which I have said many times are one of the best sounding iPods ever made. I recently tried the JH13Pro on my daughter's 2G Touch, and they are bright on the touch as well as all other headphones I tried with the Touch. The 5.5G video is actually slightly better with the JH13Pro than the 4G Nano or 2G touch, but not as transparent and balanced sounding with them as the iPhone 3G/GS. But then even though enjoyable on the iPhone 3G/GS, if I switch to my RSA P-51 amp off the line out of the iPhone or 5.5G video (iMod) the sound improves more. And, if I move up to my desktop rig, it improves even more. It's what we call scaling up. But certainly the JH13Pro will reveal a bad source, DAP or amp - I just didn't go out of my way to find a bad one.
As for soundstage - it's never been in question that speakers do it best, and headphones have a more "in-head" soundstage called headstage, with some illusion of being out of the head in addition to that. The JH13Pro actually have a pretty good soundstage for an IEM, despite not having the pinna of the ear to interact with the soundwaves or having some external crosstalk from the back of one driver into the opposite ear - both of which help localize the sound. Soundstage is not everything, timbre and tone, and detail, and air and ambience all play a roll in how it sounds. My K1000 have a bigger soundstage than my HD800 and yet I like the HD800 better because I don't get the detail and impact with the K1000 like I do with the HD800.
Your experience with the Etymotic ER4 is classic - the majority of people who have tried them feel the ER4P without an amp are not very impressive, like when used out of an iPod headphone out. I had that impression with my old ER6i and IM716 which uses Ety drivers (stock and after de-podding). That is the biggest reason I stayed away from the ER4.