[TMRaven]

I've seen too many posts from like-minded people who shallowly assume tubes always equal distortion, and that O2 is completely transparent, and anything that sounds different is coloring the sound, or anything twice the price or higher would lose out in a blind a/b test.  I even had those kind of people sullying up my own topics.
 
I'm not trying to insult people here, but I do hope that we don't see any more of that kind of attitude on head-fi, that kind of talk never leads to any advancement for the topics they're in.
 
I have heard the 650 on a couple of amplifiers, and it does scale pretty nicely, even though the sound signature ultimately isn't to my liking, so I do think it's not helping the topic if you come in saying that the 650 can reach its fullest potential with an O2 or Magni.  For starters, I think an Asgard2 beats out both of them, and the best I've heard the 650 was with a tube amp.  

 

[62ohm]

I've owned the Magni/Modi stack before, and when I tried it with the HD650 I remember hated it very much. The sound was veiled and muffle with bloated, uncontrolled bass. Then I tried the HD650 with several other amps (WA3, WA6, WA7, Soloist) and apart from the WA3, the other 3 amps performed significantly better than the Magni/Modi stack I had. Now I'm currently using an HDVA600, and when I tried the HD650 with it I was blown away.. I never thought the headphone I used to hate can sound that good.
 
 
Based on my first hand ownership experience, I can't say the Magni/Modi is an "end-all-be-all" for any headphone at all. It's a good amp/dac stack for its price, but definitely not hard to beat.

 

[MrGoat]

While I agree that something like a soloist has to be better than a Magni with a HD650, but to say it sounds bad is just hard to believe. It still blows my mind every time I listen to it. I personally love the combo, and for the price it is really hard to beat.
 
I finally made it to a high end audio shop down town a couple days ago, I really just went to hear the HD800 in person, but they also had a HD650 to try as well. They had 4 different amps to plug in to, I don't remember what they were, but they were all larger than a VCR player so I imagine they were expensive. Now, could not A/B with my magni, but when I put on the HD650 it sounded exactly like the pair I had at home with my Magni/modi combo. I even switched up the amps, and while they each had different volume levels, and slightly different emphasis in sound they are all very subtle and (imo) such a small difference to where there is no way it could go from sounding good to bad from a change that insignificant. 
 
Keep in mind though, this is also coming from someone who when a/b testing the HD800, I still preferred the HD650, it has just the right amount of bass and just makes everything sound pleasing to my ears. The HD800 had a godly soundstage though, beautiful headphones really, but not $1200+ good. I suppose this "hobby" and the opinions that come with it really depends on the amount of disposable income as well though. 

 

 

[62ohm]

It is not surprising that someone would prefer the HD650 to the HD800 as bright sound sig is not really for everyone. In fact, it is exactly why I plan on getting the HD650 as my complementary cans (just have to wait for my WA3 to sell).
 
But yeah, when I had the Magni/Modi combo, I would not even consider getting the HD650 as it sounds veiled and muffled to me, YMMV.

 

[pp312]

  It is not surprising that someone would prefer the HD650 to the HD800 as bright sound sig is not really for everyone. In fact, it is exactly why I plan on getting the HD650 as my complementary cans (just have to wait for my WA3 to sell).
 

 
And along with the HD650 you get 3 points for spelling 'complementary' correctly. 

 

[JacobLee89]

Considering my last hobby (Warhammer) headphone audio is ,within reason, a medium-investment hobby if you are both knowledgeable and careful with how you progress through your gear.
 
As with the price people generally pay for amps and such, $400-$500 doesn't seem too steep especially for that price you get amps such as the BHC that "as far as I have read" introduce some colour which matches perfectly with the HD650. It's when the claim wars begin when $1000+ equipment pieces are put into the mix. You can only ask: how much optimisation is physically possible?
 
 
I for one, cannot see myself affording such summit-fi luxuries. Maybe the BHC out of curiosity, and because of the demand for pre-built ones should I decide that it's not for me.

 

[Solrighal]

We don't need anymore nwavdouche minions roaming around these parts.  They always stink up the forums with their sensationalist assumptions.  Don't be one of those guys, Tsukinick.

The O2 is as close to "a straight wire with gain" as anyone's going to get for the money. As such it allows the HD650 to be heard in its purest form. If the sound you hear is not satisfactory to you then by all means introduce valves or whatever to adapt the sound to your taste. This is adding colouration, whether you like that description or not. Alternatively you could buy a different pair of headphones which better suit your tastes in the first place. Personally, as someone with very little money to spend on a hobby, I'm happy that the O2 is allowing me to hear the HD650 sound in its purest form and that's good enough for me.

 

[JamieMcC]

While most amps in the $300-$400 range offer fairly competent performance there can be no escaping they are built to conform to tight budgets by their manufacturers then marked up considerably for retail the beauty of the O2 is its a very good example off what can be achieved when the its diy'ed and their is not the massive retail mark up.
 
Their is also absolutely no denying quality counts here, take film caps they are widely acknowledged as being superior than electrolytic ones and generally cost a lot more, a 100uf 250 volt electrolytic is around $1.50 (half that for a baulk order). The same 100uf 250 volt film cap is in the region of $30 for a audio budget one. They have the same values and do the same job but one is ultimately better at doing it.
 
For a example from my own experience, take what is widely regarded as a great sounding amp like the Bottlehead Crack this has a well established upgrade path swapping out and upgrading components the difference it makes spending $100 on what is basically swapping out the same part for a higher quality ones.
 
I thought before starting that it was the bees knees and sounded superb, clear, no grain, good resolution and dynamics etc, but until you experience first hand the benefits of using better quality components like film capacitors, stepped attenuators, Teflon bypasses and low ripple film caps in the power supply make your never going to get it. Its actually a bit mind bending to think what you thought was very good actually had a lot of room for improvement.  That I think is where a lot of the all amps sound the same brigade just cant except because they just have not experienced the difference. That and the other old chestnut of tubes amps being un-resolving, rolled off and coloured. With the good ones this really is not always the case.
 
To presume the same levels of performance can be achieved by amps that are built constrained by tight profit margins is pure fantasy in my experiance.

 

[Solrighal]

By far the two most conflated words on this forum are 'better' and 'accurate'. They are not the same thing.

 

[JamieMcC]

The O2 is as close to "a straight wire with gain" as anyone's going to get for the money. As such it allows the HD650 to be heard in its purest form. If the sound you hear is not satisfactory to you then by all means introduce valves or whatever to adapt the sound to your taste. This is adding colouration, whether you like that description or not. Alternatively you could buy a different pair of headphones which better suit your tastes in the first place. Personally, as someone with very little money to spend on a hobby, I'm happy that the O2 is allowing me to hear the HD650 sound in its purest form and that's good enough for me.

 
Every choice of component and wire used adds coloration ALL amps have coloration. I am pleased you like the performance of the O2 with your HD650 but to suggest folk here are not getting the best out of the HD650's just because they don't use a O2 is simply way off. Keep a open mind there has probably never been such a wide choice of great gear available for headphone users on the market as at the moment.

 

[JamieMcC]

By far the two most conflated words on this forum are 'better' and 'accurate'. They are not the same thing.

Bit like the O2 being the best amp in the whole wide world then

 

[James-uk]

If you want the highest possible fidelity from the hd650 the O2 will provide that. If you want a flavour of sound to suit a particular taste get the O2 and use eq. If you want the same hi fidelity accurate transparent sound with more connections and features there are other options such as dac1 USB and numerous other amps that meet the transparency criteria. If you want a particular sound with the hd650 then that's fine buy the amp that provides that sound such as the crack. An easier cheaper way is to use a solid state amp and apply eq. It won't look as cool as the crack though.

 

[James-uk]

While most amps in the $300-$400 range offer fairly competent performance there can be no escaping they are built to conform to tight budgets by their manufacturers then marked up considerably for retail the beauty of the O2 is its a very good example off what can be achieved when the its diy'ed and their is not the massive retail mark up.

Their is also absolutely no denying quality counts here, take film caps they are widely acknowledged as being superior than electrolytic ones and generally cost a lot more, a 100uf 250 volt electrolytic is around $1.50 (half that for a baulk order). The same 100uf 250 volt film cap is in the region of $30 for a audio budget one. They have the same values and do the same job but one is ultimately better at doing it.

For a example from my own experience, take what is widely regarded as a great sounding amp like the Bottlehead Crack this has a well established upgrade path swapping out and upgrading components the difference it makes spending $100 on what is basically swapping out the same part for a higher quality ones.

I thought before starting that it was the bees knees and sounded superb, clear, no grain, good resolution and dynamics etc, but until you experience first hand the benefits of using better quality components like film capacitors, stepped attenuators, Teflon bypasses and low ripple film caps in the power supply make your never going to get it. Its actually a bit mind bending to think what you thought was very good actually had a lot of room for improvement.  That I think is where a lot of the all amps sound the same brigade just cant except because they just have not experienced the difference. That and the other old chestnut of tubes amps being un-resolving, rolled off and coloured. With the good ones this really is not always the case.

To presume the same levels of performance can be achieved by amps that are built constrained by tight profit margins is pure fantasy in my experiance.

I have the O2 / odac and benchmark dac 1 USB. They couldn't be anymore different in terms of build / topology / components used yet they sound IDENTICAL with all my headphones. It's not only in my opinion, nobody has yet heard a difference in a volume matched double blind test. How do you explain this? Maybe it's because the science doesn't lie or have any bias.

 

[Solrighal]

Bit like the O2 being the best amp in the whole wide world then :evil:

Be honest, you didn't really read my post, did you?

 

[pp312]

a 100uf 250 volt electrolytic is around $1.50 (half that for a baulk order).

 
I certainly wouldn't baulk at that.