[RedBull]

Quote:

I don't know how the Bursons drive T1 tho.
 
My understanding, it limits out at 500Ohms.
 
So yeah, better stay away from those threads, cos you may end up have to buy T1 and the matching amp too, two holes in your wallet  

 
Oh, hell no.
 
(Runs and hides behind a tree.  Peeks out from the side, still shaking.)
 

 

Then likely it won't drive T1 as it should.
 
... and wet your pants too? 

 

 
^ the thing is, I don't like to eq..  From sound description (and I have tried T1 too), if I HAVE TO BUY, likely either I go for T1 or LCD2 (this one I haven't had a chance to try), but not HD800, I tried many many times with many many amps, still can't like it enough to buy one.  The sound signature is just not my cup of tea, but yeah, soundstage, out-of-the-head-experience and speed is KING on HD800, just the tonality is 'not-me'.

 

[beeman458]

... and wet your pants too? 

 

 
Only when I get the invoice that says: "Pay up fooo."
 

 

 

[Dibster]

Yet more people defining HD650 treble as rolled off. It's strange how different my experience is with my HD650 and K701's. The K701 is rolled off out of the wazoo in both treble and bass compared to the HD650. My biggest gripe with the latter is exactly it's treble, which I find a bit too forward in the ~15khz range. I would definitely not buy any headphone that had more treble presence.

 

[SP Wild]

I don't hear a rolled of treble either.  You could say the SE530 IEM is rolled off and I wouldn't disagree - the HD650 has fantastic treble extension...treble definition is a different matter, but at the price range treble definition is excellent.
 
Heck, I'm pretty sure they extend further than the K1000, that I need to check...but they don't roll off as soon as the K701 - and they don't roll off as early as the T1 either if I might add.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

I don't hear a rolled of treble either.  You could say the SE530 IEM is rolled off and I wouldn't disagree - the HD650 has fantastic treble extension...treble definition is a different matter, but at the price range treble definition is excellent.
 
Heck, I'm pretty sure they extend further than the K1000, that I need to check...but they don't roll off as soon as the K701 - and they don't roll off as early as the T1 either if I might add.

Sorry Sam...but what I hear and the Headroom graphs prove that the T1s don't roll off until about 15K (not much of value after that) and the HD650s fall off a cliff at only 10K Hz.
 
I did extensive A-Bing when I owned both over several months before I eventually sold off the HD650s for the HD800.

 

[Sebhelyesfarku]

Yeah, the HD 650 is significantly "darker" than the HD 800 from the same amp, at least it was for me. But I like it! 

 

[SP Wild]

The HD650 definilitely has less treble presence than the HD800.  Compared to the T1 - I find this very debatable,  I am sure if Dibster hears the T1 he will mirror my observations - it appears we both hear exactly the same things in treble perception.  The graph shows the T1 to have a bigger spike in treble than the HD800...the graph only tells a partial story.  I suggest people experiment with EQ to separate pycho acoustics and what happes to the perception of adjacent frequencies when one frquency is sharply bumped up - hint:  acoustic masking.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

The HD650 definilitely has less treble presence than the HD800.  Compared to the T1 - I find this very debatable,  I am sure if Dibster hears the T1 he will mirror my observations - it appears we both hear exactly the same things in treble perception.  The graph shows the T1 to have a bigger spike in treble than the HD800...the graph only tells a partial story.  I suggest people experiment with EQ to separate pycho acoustics and what happes to the perception of adjacent frequencies when one frquency is sharply bumped up - hint:  acoustic masking.

The spike is at 9K (not in the area of sibilance or of real concern). The HD800's spike is more of a concern as it is at about 6K. And the HD650s...well they fall off a cliff as I mentioned at around 10K. Owning all three (HD650s now sold), the graphs are pretty accurate (except for the T1 spike at 9K which I really don't hear).
 
http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=2033&graphID[]=853&graphID[]=863

 

[AmbientRevolut]

I hear a lot about how dark the hd650's are etc. And I hear the term neutral tossed around often when comparing to other headphones (akg k 701). But let me ask you, when you say SSSSSSSSSSSSSSStuff, there is no grating sibilance no matter how loud you say it, I couldn't care less if your headphones are flat if they emphasize a grating sibilance, you can chock that up to the recording all you want, but what I hear is that the hd650's are NATURAL.
 
When you hear bass, it is not always tight and defined, some artists intend their bass to be heavy hitting, while other music, like jazz, demands a tight string pluck defined. 
 
I feel like the hd650's can do both, while cans like akg k 701 can only do 1.
 
Natural natural natural, loving my hd650's.
 
-A R
 

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

I hear a lot about how dark the hd650's are etc. And I hear the term neutral tossed around often when comparing to other headphones (akg k 701). But let me ask you, when you say SSSSSSSSSSSSSSStuff, there is no grating sibilance no matter how loud you say it, I couldn't care less if your headphones are flat if they emphasize a grating sibilance, you can chock that up to the recording all you want, but what I hear is that the hd650's are NATURAL.
 
When you hear bass, it is not always tight and defined, some artists intend their bass to be heavy hitting, while other music, like jazz, demands a tight string pluck defined. 
 
I feel like the hd650's can do both, while cans like akg k 701 can only do 1.
 
Natural natural natural, loving my hd650's.
 
-A R
 

My sibilance comment was directed more at the HD800s. Sibilance doesn't come from headphones...it's in the recording (Diana Krall's are typical culprits for this). Spikes in the 6K range can bring it out to the forefront....cans like the HD650s and LCD-2 can do the opposite.
 
I'm glad your enjoying your HD650s...always great when you find a pair that really works with you!

 

[Roger Strummer]

Quote:

My sibilance comment was directed more at the HD800s. Sibilance doesn't come from headphones...it's in the recording (Diana Krall's are typical culprits for this). Spikes in the 6K range can bring it out to the forefront....cans like the HD650s and LCD-2 can do the opposite.
 

I don't know about the LCD, but I agree about the 650, they are actually under-sibilant, which is not bad actually. Even in recordings that suffer from sibilance the 650 don't reproduce it (well at least I have yet to hear sibilance with my 650), which is actually not being that true to the recording, but not necessarily in a bad way as I said, works wonders for some things.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

I don't know about the LCD, but I agree about the 650, they are actually under-sibilant, which is not bad actually. Even in recordings that suffer from sibilance the 650 don't reproduce it (well at least I have yet to hear sibilance with my 650), which is actually not being that true to the recording, but not necessarily in a bad way as I said, works wonders for some things.

I find the LCD-2s are great at pushing sibilance to the background...it's there, but not HD800 in your face there.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

My sibilance comment was directed more at the HD800s. Sibilance doesn't come from headphones...it's in the recording

 I wonder what makes you say that? I can think of no reason why there should be sibilance in a recording unless a singer were standing too close to a mike (unlikely even then) or someone on the recording desk added treble in a narrow band (equally unlikely). If you mean that the recording exhibits sibilance on every headphone you've tried bar one, there's a good case for suggesting the other headphones are too bright, which would accord with my experience of every headphone bar the 650 and 555/595. If you think it's drawing too long a bow to suggest that the majority of phones on the market are too bright, go to a concert of live music, preferrably classical or jazz, and then take a listen to popular phones like the Beyer DT880, Denon D2000, AKG 702 or just about any Grado or AT model on the same type of material. It's very easy to get used to unnaturally bright phones and even prefer them, and I've read a million posts here about 595s being "boring" when I know they're much more naturally balanced than most other popular phones including many at twice the price. Ultimately, there's no substitute for live music when it comes to judging headphones.  

 

[SP Wild]

Quote:

 I wonder what makes you say that? I can think of no reason why there should be sibilance in a recording unless a singer were standing too close to a mike (unlikely even then) or someone on the recording desk added treble in a narrow band (equally unlikely). If you mean that the recording exhibits sibilance on every headphone you've tried bar one, there's a good case for suggesting the other headphones are too bright, which would accord with my experience of every headphone bar the 650 and 555/595. If you think it's drawing too long a bow to suggest that the majority of phones on the market are too bright, go to a concert of live music, preferrably classical or jazz, and then take a listen to popular phones like the Beyer DT880, Denon D2000, AKG 702 or just about any Grado or AT model on the same type of material. It's very easy to get used to unnaturally bright phones and even prefer them, and I've read a million posts here about 595s being "boring" when I know they're much more naturally balanced than most other popular phones including many at twice the price. Ultimately, there's no substitute for live music when it comes to judging headphones.  

Have you tried the T50RP, you can order them online from 80bucks - I highly recommend giving these a twirl, they can do a few things that the HD650 cannot even come close, the tonal balance is right up your alleyway - and they are easily dampened further, which I haven't even done.  Its hard to justify keeping my HD650s when to my requirements, the T50s sound more realistic in instrument definition than the HD650s.  By far.

 

[realmassy]

Quote:

....but what I hear is that the hd650's are NATURAL.
 
When you hear bass, it is not always tight and defined, some artists intend their bass to be heavy hitting, while other music, like jazz, demands a tight string pluck defined. 
 
I feel like the hd650's can do both, while cans like akg k 701 can only do 1.

 
I totally agree with that