[killaHz]

Save us, @Baldr ! You're our only hope!

https://fudzilla.com/news/51229-someone-produced-a-us-16-495-cd-player

It doesn’t make any sense. The kind of people who have 16K to spend on a disk player already have a DAC.

Does anybody have a link handy to the posts where Mike explains how the MCB filter optimizes the phase and time elements?

I’d like to see that, too. I know it has something to do with the balance of guac and sour cream, but more detail is always welcome.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

It doesn’t make any sense. The kind of people who have 16K to spend on a disk player already have a DAC.

Yeah but maybe we don't have a DAC in the specific rack we're planning to put our new Luxman CD player in

Seriously, I am happy for people who have enough money to be able to buy this kind of thing but part of me believes a CD transport out of a PC is good enough when run into a good DAC.

 

[HardstyleLoco96]

I’d get Hel, especially if it’s also for gaming. If you don’t need the mic input, consider Magni/Modi stack or Asgard with DAC.

Would there be any difference in SQ between the Hel and Magni/modi stack? I don't really need the mic and I do understand that the stack will provide more power but I like that the Hel is one single unit so for me it is more neat and easier to deal with. But if the stack sounds better then I'll go for the stack as it is basically the same price as the Hel. But only if SQ is better.

 

[Varejao17]

It doesn’t make any sense. The kind of people who have 16K to spend on a disk player already have a DAC.

Yeah but maybe we don't have a DAC in the specific rack we're planning to put our new Luxman CD player in

Seriously, I am happy for people who have enough money to be able to buy this kind of thing but part of me believes a CD transport out of a PC is good enough when run into a good DAC.

Luxman is like McIntosh - for some folks nothing else will satisfy.

 

[Ableza]

Does anybody have a link handy to the posts where Mike explains how the MCB filter optimizes the phase and time elements?

Mike's discussion about the intricacies of his filter design happened years ago, so it's buried in the archives of Head-Fi I'm sure. If you use the search function for posts containing words "burrito" or "domain" made by Baldr back in 2014 and 2015 you may be able to find something that interests you.

 

[Zojokkeli]

Would there be any difference in SQ between the Hel and Magni/modi stack? I don't really need the mic and I do understand that the stack will provide more power but I like that the Hel is one single unit so for me it is more neat and easier to deal with. But if the stack sounds better then I'll go for the stack as it is basically the same price as the Hel. But only if SQ is better.

I haven’t heard Hel or the new Magni/Modi versions (I did have original Modi and Vali back in the day), but I don’t think you can go wrong with either.

 

[wout31]

I’d like to see that, too. I know it has something to do with the balance of guac and sour cream, but more detail is always welcome.

The SuperMegaBurritoFilter is is one of the most important magic and secret ingredients of the Schiit True multibit DAC's I would be very surprised if the filter is explained anywhere.

 

[Ableza]

Mike's discussion about the intricacies of his filter design happened years ago, so it's buried in the archives of Head-Fi I'm sure. If you use the search function for posts containing words "burrito" or "domain" made by Baldr back in 2014 and 2015 you may be able to find something that interests you.

Found this from a 2015 interview with Mike Moffat:

Can you provide some details on the Closed-Form Digital Filter used in the Yggdrasil?
The below are the claims of the Digital Filter/Interpolator in the Yggy/MB Gungnir/MB Bifrost:

1. The filter is absolutely proprietary.
2. The development tools and coefficient calculator to derive the above filters are also proprietary.
3. The math involved in developing the filter and calculating has a closed form solution. It is not an approximation, as all other filters I have studied. Therefore, all of the original samples are output. This could be referred to fairly as bit perfect; what comes in goes out.
4. Oversimplified, however essentially correct: The filter is also time domain optimized which means the phase info in the original samples are averaged in the time domain with the filter generated interpolated samples to for corrected minimum phase shift as a function of frequency from DC to the percentage of Nyquist - in our case .985. Time domain is well defined at DC - the playback device behaves as a window fan at DC - it either blows (in phase) or sucks (out). It is our time domain optimization that gives the uncanny sonic hologram that only Thetas and MB Schiit converters do. (It also allows the filter to disappear. Has to be heard to understand.) Since lower frequency wavelengths are measured in tens of feet, placement in image gets increasingly wrong as a function of decreasing frequency in non time domain optimized recordings - these keep the listener's ability to hear the venue - not to mention the sum of all of the phase errors in the microphones, mixing boards, eq, etc on the record side. An absolute phase switch is of little to no value in a non time domain optimized, stochastic time domain replay system. It makes a huge difference with our MB units. This switch is incorporated in the Yggy.
5. This is combined with a frequency domain optimization which does not otherwise affect the phase optimization. The 0.985 of Nyquist also gives us an advantage that none of the off-the shelf FIR filters (0.907) provide: frequency response out to 21.71925KHz, 43.4385KHz, 86.877KHz, and 173.754KHz bandwidth for native 1,2,4, and 8x 44.1KHz SR multiple recordings - the 48KHz table is 23.64, 47.28, 94.56, and 189.12KHz respectively for 1,2,4, and 8x. This was the portion of the filter that had the divide by zero workaround which John Lediaev worked out in 1983, to combine with #4 above AND retain the original samples.

 

[JDFlood]

I sent my Ayre QB-9 off for upgrade and purchased a Gungnir multibit to use in the interim with my Woo WA5-LE and headphones, I got a Mjonir just for fun as well. I must admit it to be a very solid performing DAC. It did take a few hundred hours to calm down fully and get nice and natural sounding. Even my Focal Utopia headphones sound very good with this DAC. While I and looking forward to getting my Ayre back (the upgrade cost more than the Gungnir). It will serve well in my office as it’s final destination. Can’t believe I actually bought a piece of Schiit... I laughed for years claiming I would never buy one simply because of the name.

 

[Ableza]

I sent my Ayre QB-9 off for upgrade and purchased a Gungnir multibit to use in the interim with my Woo WA5-LE and headphones, I got a Mjonir just for fun as well. I must admit it to be a very solid performing DAC. It did take a few hundred hours to calm down fully and get nice and natural sounding. Even my Focal Utopia headphones sound very good with this DAC. While I and looking forward to getting my Ayre back (the upgrade cost more than the Gungnir). It will serve well in my office as it’s final destination. Can’t believe I actually bought a piece of Schiit... I laughed for years claiming I would never buy one simply because of the name.

I sold my Ayre QB-9 after I bought Gungnir MB. To me it sounded better. YMMV.

I also sold my Wavelength Crimson after I got Yggdrasil...

 

[jkpenrose]

The SuperMegaBurritoFilter is is one of the most important magic and secret ingredients of the Schiit True multibit DAC's I would be very surprised if the filter is explained anywhere.

If I recall, Mike has some comments on the MBC filter fairly early on in his thread on head-fi...

Here is Jason, quoting Mike's explanation back in 2015 about the MBC filter on a BF1 thread..

As far as I know, only 2 major players are focused on frequency and time-domain reconstruction to such a significant degree... Schiit and Chord - though they approach it in different ways, from what I understand...

Per Mike (still the most concise summation of the "supercomboburrito" filter):

The below are the claims of the digital filter in the Yggdrasil: (and Gungnir Multibit/Bifrost Multibit--JS)

1. The filter is absolutely proprietary.

2. The development tools and coefficient calculator to derive the above filters are also proprietary.

3. The math involved in developing the filter and calculating has a closed form solution. It is not an approximation, as all other filters I have studied (most, if not all of them). Therefore, all of the original samples are output. This could be referred to fairly as bit perfect; what comes in goes out.

4. Oversimplified, however essentially correct: The filter is also time domain optimized which means the phase info in the original samples are averaged in the time domain with the filter generated interpolated samples to for corrected minimum phase shift as a function of frequency from DC to the percentage of nyquist - in our case .968. Time domain is well defined at DC - the playback device behaves as a window fan at DC - it either blows (in phase) or sucks (out). It is our time domain optimization that gives the uncanny sonic hologram that only Thetas and Yggys do. (It also allows the filter to disappear. Has to be heard to understand.) Since lower frequency wavelengths are measured in tens of feet, placement in image gets increasingly wrong as a function of decreasing frequency in non time domain optimized recordings - these keep the listener's ability to hear the venue - not to mention the sum of all of the phase errors in the microphones, mixing boards, eq, etc on the record side. An absolute phase switch is of little to no value in a non time domain optimized, stochastic time domain replay system. It makes a huge difference with an Yggdrasil.

5. This is combined with a frequency domain optimization which does not otherwise affect the phase optimization. The 0.968 of nyquist also gives us a small advantage that none of the off-the shelf FIR filters (0.907) provide: frequency response out to 21.344KHz, 42.688KHz, 85.3776KHz, and 170.5772KHz bandwidth for native 1,2,4, and 8x 44.1KHz SR multiple recordings - the 48KHz table is 23.232, 46.464, 92.868, and 185.856KHz respectively for 1,2,4, and 8x. This was the portion of the filter that had the divide by zero problem which John Lediaev worked out in 1983, to combine with #4 above AND retain the original samples.

This is what the competition offers:

Frequency domain optimization FIR filters with Parks-McClellan optimization. The development tools for these types of filters can be downloaded for a price range of free to $300 on the internet. Parks-McClellan is the goto filter optimization for audio design. These filters are derived with no closed form math; only successive approximation. The original samples are lost. The output is approximated. An educated guess. This optimization is ubiquitous in the front end of delta sigma dacs as well as standalone digital filters. While there is no inherent phase shift within Parks-McClellan filters, there is no optimization of phase either. The listener is left with what remains from the mixing boards, transducers, brick-wall filters, etc which can and usually do destroy proper phase/position information. Finally, it is processor efficient and economical to implement. Read cheap.

Any avoidance of the Parks-McClellan pablum requires a lot of original DSP work. Am I a prophet who received the tablets from God or some other high-end audio drivel. Hell, no. I was the producer and director of this project and worked with Dave Kerstetter (hardware-software), John Lediaev (Math), Tom Lippiat (DSP Code), Warren Goldman (Coefficient Generator and development tools) for a total of 15 or so man years. These folks either taught math at The University of Iowa, Computer Science at Carnegie-Mellon University, worked at think tanks like the Rand Corporation – you get the idea. We did this for no money - What we all had in common was that we loved audio. All other audio pros were interested in Parks-McClellan and pointed and laughed at us. That's the way it happened.

It was worth it, every hour, day, and year. So go for it if you want. For what it is, it is not a lot of money.

Tap length is 18000 in Gungnir MB and Yggdrasil, 9000 in Bifrost MB. Stopband rejection is 120dB+, IIRC. I think Marv has plots.
Oct 5, 2015

 

[Pietro Cozzi Tinin]

Both 70% and 99% are readily available in Calgary.
.

They have 120% in Calgary.... so it says on the label.
They also have pink unicorns in Calgary.

 

[Pietro Cozzi Tinin]

Save us, @Baldr ! You're our only hope!

https://fudzilla.com/news/51229-someone-produced-a-us-16-495-cd-player

Wow. What a machine.
This is a 16,000 ripoff. Including two Toslinks. The worst of the worst interlink possible.

 

[CarlosAudio51]

Wanna share my story with Schiit customer service. Don't worry. It's a good one.

During all this B-stock madness, I ordered a B-stock Modi Multibit for $200. This was a great deal. When it arrived, the box had marked on the outside with Sharpie "B-stock, Modi MB". I open it and inside is a Modi 2 Uber instead. So I contact Schiit and within 15 minutes, not only do I have a reply but a return label on my inbox. They sent me the replacement Modi Multibit as soon as I dropped off the package for the return of the Modi 2 Uber. Modi Multibit arrives a week later and to my surprise it is a brand new Modi MB. For those of you who have bought Schiit B-stock before, there is always some marking (Sharpie on the box or a "B" circled on the model label on the outside of the box) that denotes it as B-stock. This Modi MB did not have any, hence I'm almost 100% sure it's a new Modi MB. To me, this is significant. A new Modi MB is $250 so that means that there was no more B-stock of the Modi MB at Schiit. They could have easily replied to me and said "we're out of stock of the B-stock Modi MB. We'll refund you the $200. We're sorry for the inconvenience." Or they could have said "we're out of stock of B-stock Modi MB. We can refund you the $200 or we can send you a new Modi MB for the extra $50." Either of these 2 options is what most other companies would have done. So, needless to say, I'm a very happy customer.

 

[NigelJ]

BF1 is 4x, but will upsample 88.1 or 96 by 2x to 192. similarly BF2 is 1x-8x filter depending on input sample rate
.

Just to expand on tincanear's explanation.

Bifrost 1 Multibit (and also Modi Multibit and the True Multibit Card for the modular amps) run their DACs at either of two frequencies:​

1. 176.4 kHz is used for 44.1 kHz sources upsampled 4x, 88.2 kHz sources upsampled 2x, and 176.4 kHz with no oversampling (NOS).
2. 192 kHzis used for 48 kHz sources upsampled 4x, 96 kHz sources upsampled 2x, and 192 kHz with no oversampling.

Bifrost 2 (and also Gungnir Multibit and Yggdrasil) run their DACs at either of two higher frequencies:​

1. 352.8 kHz is used for 44.1 kHz sources upsampled 8x, 88.2 kHz sources upsampled 4x, and 176.4 kHz sources upsampled 2x.
2. 384 kHzis used for 48 kHz sources upsampled 8x, 96 kHz sources up sampled 4x, and 192 kHz sources upsampled 2x.

Note that Bifrost 2 and the other up to 8x devices appear to have no NOS posibility, as all the inputs are limited to 192 kHz.