[rhythmdevils]

thanks ferbose!

I just bought a presonus Firebox. I love it so far. Do you know anything about how the TRS speaker outputs on the back, and headphone output compare between the two units?

i was thinking of writing up a review on the firebox, and may still do so. it works with mac core audio, so all you have to do is plug it in and it works! incredible, especially when compared to M-audio units of comparable price

 

[velogreg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose This is not the ultimate DAC/AMP combo. You can't even get the ultimate standalone DAC or amp for $500, not to mention a DAC/amp. There sure are better DAC/amp out there at higher prices, but most of them don't accept analog in. It is important to consider that the amps in Central Station can play analog in from SACD, DVD-A, radio and LP. The two lights beside each headphone jack indicates if the amp is playing the main or cue signal. Main signal can be in turn selected between TRS1, TRS2, aux and digital; cue signal can be also selected between TRS1, TRS2, aux and digital. This means one jack can be playing TRS1 analog-in from a tuner, while the other jack playing digital audio the computer. Yes, you get two completely independent amps. If you want noticeable better DAC and amp capabilities, you really have to go into $1K-1.5K range IMHO. If you want to add a preamp of the same caliber as Central Station, another $500-$1000 is probably required. Now, if you want to add all the connectivity that Central Station offers, it is almost impossible. That is why I say Central Station is the center piece of an affordable two-channel system. You will always find some good use for it, even if you upgrade further and further. To use the output, you will need a TS-to-RCA adapter so you can use odinary RCA cables. Alternatively, I am planning to get Pro-Co TS-to-RCA cables from Sweerwater.com. Each of the input/output jacks in the back support both TRS (balanced) and TS plugs (unbalanced). You see, the use of 1/4" jacks is much more convenient that using XLR and RCA jacks. Instead of XLR and RCA (2 jacks), you only need one TRS jack. This is why Central Station is a connection powerhouse, offering both source switching and monitor selection. Speaker (line-level) outputs A, B and C are independent, except that A and B can't be simultaneously on. You can play A, B, C, AC, and BC, but not AB or ABC.

Forgive the question but I am a bit confused on the benefits of the TS/TRS plugs. If I use a TRS male plug in the speaker out or line out jack as part of a TRS male, RCA male connector, wouldn't I need one complete connector for each channel (R/L)? Does the same apply if you use a TS male RCA male connector cable? Does the same apply whether you use the speaker or line out jacks? To further clarify what you stated above, is that a TRS/RCA connector cable in a "Y" configuration ala Ipod mini to amp?
Sorry.

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by velogreg [/B] Forgive the question but I am a bit confused on the benefits of the TS/TRS plugs. If I use a TRS male plug in the speaker out or line out jack as part of a TRS male, RCA male connector, wouldn't I need one complete connector for each channel (R/L)? Does the same apply if you use a TS male RCA male connector cable? Does the same apply whether you use the speaker or line out jacks? To further clarify what you stated above, is that a TRS/RCA connector cable in a "Y" configuration ala Ipod mini to amp?

The benfit of the TRS jack (one per channel) on Cebtral Station is that if you want balanced connection, you would use a 3-wire per channel cable with TRS plug. If you want unblamced connection, you use 2-wire per channel cable with TS plug. Or you could use adapters like TRS-to-XLR or TS-to-RCA. PreSonus automatically switches between balanced and unbalanced modes without user intervention. This apllies for both input and output.
If you want to go from Ipod to Central Station, you would need a Y-cable with a 1/8" TRS plug (for Ipods's headphone out) with two 1/4" TS plugs (for Cnetral Station's L/R input jacks).

 

[velogreg]

So my line out and speaker (out) jack connector options are basically narrowed to either TS/(1)RCA, or TRS/Y-(2)RCAs?

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by velogreg So my line out and speaker (out) jack connector options are basically narrowed to either TS/(1)RCA, or TRS/Y-(2)RCAs?

Not quite.

You can use TS(M)-to-RCA(M) cable. Or you can easily pick up TS(M)-to-RCA(F) adapters at Guitar Center or on-line and continue using RCA cables.

TRS/Y-(2)RCA cable is splitting a stereo headphone jack's signal to L and R channels. This is not the cable you need. Central Station's speaker out is balanced TRS jack (one jack for each channel). In balanced output, tip is positive signal, ring is negative and sleeve is ground. Therefore, in balanced output, you need six wires (two 3-wire cables) for stereo signals. If your downstram amplifier or active speakers does not have balanced input (XLR or TRS input), there is no need to use balanced output from Central Station.

 

[velogreg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose Not quite. You can use TS(M)-to-RCA(M) cable. Or you can easily pick up TS(M)-to-RCA(F) adapters at Guitar Center or on-line and continue using RCA cables. TRS/Y-(2)RCA cable is splitting a stereo headphone jack's signal to L and R channels. This is not the cable you need. Central Station's speaker out is balanced TRS jack (one jack for each channel). In balanced output, tip is positive signal, ring is negative and sleeve is ground. Therefore, in balanced output, you need six wires (two 3-wire cables) for stereo signals. If your downstram amplifier or active speakers does not have balanced input (XLR or TRS input), there is no need to use balanced output from Central Station.

Wow so TS(M)/RCA(M) cable it is, thank you Ferbose for exceptional patience and detailed review! Needless to say I am now a proud owner of a ProSonus Central Station based upon your posts and recommendation. Your reviews are always highly regarded. I now must upgrade my source from Marantz to ??? to realize the full potential of the ProSonus

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure Could you try to take some close up shots of the front panel and some size comparison shots with some of the headphones/amps/DACs you own?

Here is the picture:

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by velogreg I now must upgrade my source from Marantz to ??? to realize the full potential of the ProSonus

I think Marantz should be a decent transport at least.
I suspect that you will hear hardly any sign of digititis using Marabtz and Central Sation.
IMHO, once reaching the level where digititis is hard to detect, further upgrades hit the steep part of the diminishing-return curve, almost reduced to the point of changing flavors and seeking synergy.

 

[Ferbose]

Previously I thought Central Station could only drive the K1000 to reasonable levels. But the sound is a bit thin and dynamics is somewhat lacking.

Today I discovered that Central Station can drive K1000 very well.
With an ordinary 2V input from ordinary CD players, Central Station's headphone jack has to be turned to almost max and still not quite loud enough. With the 5.5 V output of my DAC1's RCA out, volume knob can be around 2 o'clock position and the sound is OK but a bit congested, just like what I had remembered.

However, with the 22V signal from my DAC1's XLR, I can listen to K1000 on Central Station with headphone volume at 10-11 o'clock. I listened to a bunch of CDs with jazz, classical and rock, and never had to go over 11 o'clock. And the sound is crystal clear and non-harsh. Bass impact is better than my single-ended tube amp. There is no feeling of compressed dynamics whatsoever. Treble on the violins is not as lush and warm as my tube amp but it is still quite accurate. Now I prefer driving K1000 with Central Station over my tube amp for most types of music except classical.

I can only speculate why Central Station can drive K1000 well with very high input signals. My guess is that its headphone section's voltage gain is not quite enough but its current gain is plenty. If you feed a normal 2V signal, it can't produce the 7V swing needed to drive K1000 to 100 dB SPL. However, with a 22V (29 dBu) input from DAC1's XLR, the voltage gain only needs to be -10 dB to drive K1000 to 100 dB SPL. All it needs is current gain. That being said, DAC1's XLR is already capable of sending pleanty of current into a low impedance load like a K501. May be it is a synergy between DAC1 XLR and Central Sation that makes it sound so good.

Anyway, I am glad that I found an amp that can properly drive K1000 with rock/jazz to my liking. I was planning to get DT880/K701 for jazz, but now that craving is gone.

 

[jvbb2005]

um.......
22V signal from DAC1's XLR still no distortion?

 

[Ferbose]

Now I discovered another useful feature of Central Station.
There is an AUX input with RCA jack, and it has an active volume control in the input stage, before it enters headphone amp or preamp section. I normally don't use this because the signal passes through two volume control stages--on the front plate you can see an AUX volume pot only for this input.
Today I actually listened carefully to AUX input to see if the extra active volume control degrades the sound. My SACD/DVD player's two RCA outs are connected to TRS2 and AUX inputs, and level matched. Listening through built-in amp or external amp via passive preamp out, I think the difference is really minimal. I could tell a slight difference but could not really pinpoint which is better. I now accept that the AUX input is sonically robust.

The AUX input becomes really handy when listening to the analog out of my SACD/DVD player (2V output). At this output voltage, the internal amp can't dirve K1000 loud enough. Once I jack up the AUX level knob to match DAC1's 22V XLR input, the headphone amp drives K1000 just fine. I listened to Pink Floyd's DSOTM SACD and it sounds pretty exciting, with all the spooky effects intact.

In short, Central Station's headphone amp is fully functional with K1000. With high level inputs near 20V, it can work very well. With normal level inputs around 2V, simply use AUX volume knob to ramp it up. AUX knob at 1 o'clock position makes 2V input as loud as 22V input (while headphone volume at 10 o'clcok to drive K1000). At this knob position, there is still plenty of headroom. After this amplification, the internal amp again drives K1000 very well. Throuhg AUX input, it can be thought of a two-stage amplification to drive K1000, kind of like preamp/power amp for speakers. This quite legitimate since K1000 is a earspeaker to begin with. My headphone tube amp uses three stages (12AX7, 12AU7 and EL84) to drive K1000.

Previously I was in some kind of jazz slump for months and months, as jazz all of a sudden stopped sounding exciting to me (can't get that swing). Since a few days ago, as I started driving K1000 with Cnetral Station, my jazz passion is revived. Listening to "Friday Night in San Francisco," I could swear these three guitarists were on fire (McLaughlin, di Dimeola, de Lucia).

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvbb2005 um....... 22V signal from DAC1's XLR still no distortion?

Doesn't surprise me that there wouldn't be... pro gear is intended to accept higher than consumer-level outputs.

 

[fvoelling]

Ferbose,

I also was excited to find out from PreSonus tech support that the unit takes a phono input (via the AUX), even though it's not really mentioned in the manual. This eliminates another piece of equipment (such as the PreSonus Inspire) for me to buy for recording my LPs to hard drive, and I can now concentrate on a good sound card that can record analog in (from the PCS) and output via SPDIF (back to the PCS) for DAC/preamp playback to an external power amp. I will also use the PCS to listen to AKG K-701 headphones that I have on order.

Is this the correct cable to connect the PCS to the power amp:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DKQR5/

I believe the 701 headphones should not require any special adaptors.

For an audio card that can record my LPs (via the PCS), and also provide good playback via SPDIF of my digitized music to the PCS, I'm considering the E-MU 1212M. This card has 1/4" balanced TRS inputs, so 2 of these should do the trick (unless it's possible to use unbalanced TS cables instead, they're quite a bit less and the turntable only has unbalanced RCA out anyway, so the use of balanced between PCS and the 1212M may not make a difference):

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BP10/

Thanks,
Frank

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fvoelling Is this the correct cable to connect the PCS to the power amp: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DKQR5/ [/url]

Yes, I am thinking about buying that cable, too.

Or this Mogami cable:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...les?sku=339031

Or this CBI cable:
http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/RCA-to-1-4.html

They all look like high quality to me, so I have not made up my mind.
Now I am a fan of pro-aduio cable suppliers over boutique audiophile cable shops.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Ferbose, thank you!

I recently bought a PreSonus Central Station in large part because of your recommendation. I am extremely happy with it. I bought it mostly for the DAC, but am quite impressed with the headphone amps.

Even better is the connectivity. I use both digital inputs and it's now the certerpiece of my stereo/loudspeaker system, too. Like you said, there's nothing else out there like it. I was on the verge of spending a lot more money for a few pieces of gear that did not do as much as this.

I know you know all of this, but I wanted to bump this thread and let everyone else know how terrific this piece of gear is. Performance is great, build quality is high and the price is right. Thanks again!