[music_man]

when i said "clinical", i was indeed using audiophile speak as to mean "true to the source". i used that word since this is not a pro audio forum. it may better convey what i hear in the cs to most of this forums members.
that is not meant to belittle anyone here. simply, audiophiles have one set of language and engineers another.

i think one can safely say that the cs is among the top solid state equipment currently available. that is, if one is looking for uncolored sound. many audiophiles indeed are not. when we compare the cs to other top da converters and headamps we are comparing nuances. it is mostly agreed that it is in the top tier of equipment in this category. many of you that own it have not even realised it's preamp yet.

when one considers the price of this unit amazement comes to mind.

some things are said to be just ok, but become great because of their price. in those items the limitations are overlooked due to it's price. this is not true at all of the cs. i hope presonus is not reading this because i think they would have people buying this if it was $2,000. it is company with the grace and dac-1 , and then there is the preamp. if you think the dac and head amp are excellent you will be floored by the preamp. if you need that function it's there.


freefilter, yes i do think multiples of 44.1khz are preferential. aka oversampling. i am not so fond of upsampling. no one listens to me about that though. however, if you do upsample it is easier on the oversampler since less of the brickwall filter needs to be employed. it moves the noise into a higher domain allowing the oversampler more headroom. this is theoretical of course. my preferance remains to use only oversampling. which the cs already does. i think the key is in feeding it very low jitter. in that respect i use a mark levinson transport and a 1 meter very exquisite cable. i figure you already know about oversampling vs. upsampling. i am mentioning this as it applies to the cs since you asked. i found that a superior transport operating at 16/44.1 easily bested a lesser transport at 24/192 when feeding the cs.
the issue is that i personally feel that there is not an upsampling transport made that can equal the old mark levinson unit. even if the ml is operating at redbook standard. therefore i do not intend to try other transports at this point. hopefully you will and let us know. or use a computer.

keep in mind that depending on what computer hardware you have, higher sampling rates may render poor results. doing that on a pc takes serious power to be implemented properly. it should be done by a sound "sub system" such as amp-farm and not by the pc's cpu.

you can achieve the same results with a computer as you would with a high end transport of course. it shall be equally expensive to do so.

music_man

 

[freeflier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man keep in mind that depending on what computer hardware you have, higher sampling rates may render poor results. doing that on a pc takes serious power to be implemented properly. it should be done by a sound "sub system" such as amp-farm and not by the pc's cpu. you can achieve the same results with a computer as you would with a high end transport of course. it shall be equally expensive to do so. music_man

Hi Musicman,
I just reconfigured the equipment in my setup so I could reach my Tact processor with my cable. I suspect the jitter will be "slightly" higher than the big ben but it can output 44,88, 96, and 192 at 24 bits. This is serious piece of digital processing gear with 32 bits of internal resolution so I suspect it will do the job adequately. Anyway I don't know if you caught my comments on the new thread Ferbose started but I'd sure like to see if I can get the CS to close that last gap on my Benchmark (in terms of reproducing complex harmonics cleanly) . The K701s are way to revealing to be happy with anything less than the most pristine signal. (I'm starting with 88hz to see how well that works).

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeflier I'd sure like to see if I can get the CS to close that last gap on my Benchmark.

It sure is tempting, isn't it?
I thought about tweaking my CS to sound as good as DAC1 so I can sell DAC1.
I think CS is basically as good as the RCA out (mine 1250 ohms) but not the XLR out on DAC1.
I could not get CS to sound as good as DAC1 after getting an glass optical cable and I gave up (I don't tweak too much).
But I kinda wonder if it is worthwhile to strive for that last 3% of refinement instead of selling DAC1 for $800.
In the end I kept DAC1 for two reasons:
1) My very-low jitter Sony SACD/DVD player might die one day, and then I will need a low jitter source with CS.
2) DAC1's headphone amp sounds great with SR225. And I newly discovered this week that it also drives HD595 better than CS.
So DAC1 stays, and after I got the silver front plate it is a real keeper.

 

[freeflier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose So DAC1 stays, and after I got the silver front plate it is a real keeper.

Yes, the Dac1 is an absolute sweetheart and I love it (and I don't care who says it's too analytic/clinical etc etc) . The real reason I got the CS and not a second Dac1 wasn't to save a few bucks but rather just to experiment a little. I also was thinking that I could really use a good basic passive preamp in my main system if I could only get the Dac section up to snuff. I'm stlill up in the air and may yet get a second Dac1 but for now the differences in sonic signatures is sort of fun and I don't consider the differences to fall in the catagory of serious flaws.

Ps I should point out that in my experience, if a piece of gear is not satisfactory, no amount of tweaking is gong to fix it. You should check out the guys over at the Tact Users Group. Some of these guys were initially so thrilled with the strengths of the Tact digital amplifier/(power dac) that they turned a blind eye to it's flaws. Some of them have spent years (literally) tweaking modifying, adding a gagillian differenent power cords/ line conditioning /isolation devices, playing with EMF attenuation etc etc etc. I think some of them have even forgotten that they bought the equipment to actually listen to music. I had the amp for 3 months, accessed the problems, and sold it. I did the same with the much hyped Musical Fidelity A3/24 which was seriously flawed.

 

[SR-71Panorama]

I don't think anyone has posted about this yet: Does anyone know if you can listen through the headphone out AND speakers at the same time? I would love to be able to use headphones and a subwoofer for impact.

 

[tbonner1]

"Does anyone know if you can listen through the headphone out AND speakers at the same time?"

Yes, you can listen to headphones and speakers through the speaker outputs into either powered speakers or a power amp, then through to speakers.

The Presonus also has the ability to listen to a second set of headphones and through a total of three speaker outputs.

I am listening to both the Presonus and the Bada PH 12 these days...life is good.

 

[Naga]

of the A/B/C outputs on the passive speaker control, you can have A or B and/or C on but not all 3 - seemed kinda strange at first

you also have the Main and Cue Outs although i have yet to check what controls their volume

 

[SR-71Panorama]

OK. That seals the deal. Im getting it

I may end up selling my SR71 to help lighten the financial load...maybe.

 

[Naga]

for your HD 650s, I would be tempted to think the SR71 is better matched

It works nicely with my HD 580 although I have wanted to try something new for a while ( maybe stelo HA100? )

 

[SR-71Panorama]

That may be. I'll have to wait and see. The good thing is this equipment (for once) is not outlandishly expensive, so its not like selling one item to replace with another is the only option. LOL, I just realized that if I did sell that amp, I would be stuck with the same username for headfi, with no sr71. I don't think there is anyway to change your screen name, other than rejoining. Guess that was short sighted to name myself that

. Reguardless, I see a trip to guitar center in my very near future!

 

[rodentmacbeastie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SR-71Panorama That may be. I'll have to wait and see. The good thing is this equipment (for once) is not outlandishly expensive, so its not like selling one item to replace with another is the only option. LOL, I just realized that if I did sell that amp, I would be stuck with the same username for headfi, with no sr71. I don't think there is anyway to change your screen name, other than rejoining. Guess that was short sighted to name myself that . Reguardless, I see a trip to guitar center in my very near future!

What's in a name? If the SR-71 is the piece guilty of baiting you into the headfi realm, then don't worry. I still go by a 20 year old nickname that is no longer applicable... But my friends are too stupid to learn a new one.

 

[SK138]

freeflier, can you elaborate on what serious flaws you found on Musical Fidelity A3.24? As you can see from my sig, I have one. I am keeping an open mind about replacing it with Lavry, DAC1, or PreSonus early next year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeflier I did the same with the much hyped Musical Fidelity A3/24 which was seriously flawed.

 

[freeflier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SK138 freeflier, can you elaborate on what serious flaws you found on Musical Fidelity A3.24? As you can see from my sig, I have one. I am keeping an open mind about replacing it with Lavry, DAC1, or PreSonus early next year.

Let me start by saying that I have identified piano as one of the most difficult instruments to reproduce correctly and find that it will quicky reveal any shortcomings in a piece of equipment if you know what to look for. I make this point because I generally use piano as a my basic benchmark to reference the capabilities of hifi gear. It is particularly problematic for digital processors and speakers. In the case of the Musical Fidelity there was clear distortion eveytime a piano note was hit hard. Very unnatural overtones. I should add that there are very few processors (at real world prices) that get this right (the Dac1 does) but the problem was particularly pronounced with the MF. When I took it over to a prospective buyer's house he played it through a pair of Quad electrostats and it was so obvious it made me squirm. He didn't seem to even notice (nor did the reviewers at Stereophile). The high frequency distortion that I noticed in the piano was the flaw I alluded to but I also found the bass to be a weakness (though not an outright flaw). While it was extended I found it bloated and inarticulate. As I've mentioned before, after years of small jazz ensemble playing I have the sound of live acoustic instruments burned into my soul and I know exactly how they should sound. Because of this I'm VERY sensitive to the correctness of individual instruments and can pick out what is right or wrong even against a complex sonic backround. I think that for many, the complexity of the sonic picture obscures the subtle details amd unless you ear is trained/conditioned these small imperfections often go undetected at a concious level. Unfortunately the subconcious is not so easily fooled and over time a sense of disatisfaction may begin to surface. I should also clarify that I don't think the concious recognition of sonic "correctness" is some kiind of special skill but rather a byproduct of hunreds/thousands of hours of exposure to live acoustic instruments. It also takes me a few days of casual (unforced) listening to really get a handle on the sound and in the the case of the MF I hadn't even bothered to audition it, assuming it would be more than adeqaute for the money. Anyway, it's somewhat of a curse because once a flaw is detected it's very hard to overlook. I used to own a pair of the legendary Thiel 1.5s and I noticed a similar problem with these (again with the infuriatingly difficult piano). I sent the speakers back to Thiel. After putting them through their barage tests Thiel claimed they tested perfectly. I ended up talking to the them directly and described the problem in detail, telling them exactly what to listen for and under what conditions. They were astonished to discover that, in their listening room and under live listening conditions, they could indeed identify a problem (which had gone undetected by thier test equipment). They couldn't figure out the exact cause so they carefully matched and replaced all the drivers. When I got the speakers back, man, they were awesome. It was like I'd had a perfectly clear glass of water with a single black spec of dirt floating around that had now been removed. Heaven....

Ps I guess I should point out that while the CS isn't quite as good as the Dac1 the fact that it pretty much smokes the MF at about 1/5 the price is pretty impressive (that's not even taking into acount it's swiss army knife flexibility)

 

[SK138]

freefier, thanks for your thorough explanation. It's insightful and very informative. It's funny you picked on the piano as your benchmark. Other than myself, my entire family plays the piano...matter of fact just few feet away from me is a baby grand piano (haha). I never thought to compare the sound from MF DAC with the real piano before. I don't listen to music too analytically so that short fall I can live with. What I can't live with is lack of dynamic range...especially one you pointed out...the weak bass department. I decided to try a Monarchy Audio' s DIP 48/96 Upsampler between my source and MF DAC and it did make a dramatic difference in the bass and 3D effect.

Since CS is relatively cheap compare to other reasonable DACs I might just order a refurb CS and play it around. You also got me interested in DAC1 too

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeflier Let me start by saying that I have identified piano as one of the most difficult instruments to reproduce correctly and find that it will quicky reveal any shortcomings in a piece of equipment if you know what to look for. I make this point because I generally use piano as a my basic benchmark to reference the capabilities of hifi gear. It is particularly problematic for digital processors and speakers. In the case of the Musical Fidelity there was clear distortion eveytime a piano note was hit hard. Very unnatural overtones. I should add that there are very few processors (at real world prices) that get this right (the Dac1 does) but the problem was particularly pronounced with the MF. When I took it over to a prospective buyer's house he played it through a pair of Quad electrostats and it was so obvious it made me squirm. He didn't seem to even notice (nor did the reviewers at Stereophile). The high frequency distortion that I noticed in the piano was the flaw I alluded to but I also found the bass to be a weakness (though not an outright flaw). While it was extended I found it bloated and inarticulate. As I've mentioned before, after years of small jazz ensemble playing I have the sound of live acoustic instruments burned into my soul and I know exactly how they should sound. Because of this I'm VERY sensitive to the correctness of individual instruments and can pick out what is right or wrong even against a complex sonic backround. I think that for many, the complexity of the sonic picture obscures the subtle details amd unless you ear is trained/conditioned these small imperfections often go undetected at a concious level. Unfortunately the subconcious is not so easily fooled and over time a sense of disatisfaction may begin to surface. I should also clarify that I don't think the concious recognition of sonic "correctness" is some kiind of special skill but rather a byproduct of hunreds/thousands of hours of exposure to live acoustic instruments. It also takes me a few days of casual (unforced) listening to really get a handle on the sound and in the the case of the MF I hadn't even bothered to audition it, assuming it would be more than adeqaute for the money. Anyway, it's somewhat of a curse because once a flaw is detected it's very hard to overlook. I used to own a pair of the legendary Thiel 1.5s and I noticed a similar problem with these (again with the infuriatingly difficult piano). I sent the speakers back to Thiel. After putting them through their barage tests Thiel claimed they tested perfectly. I ended up talking to the them directly and described the problem in detail, telling them exactly what to listen for and under what conditions. They were astonished to discover that, in their listening room and under live listening conditions, they could indeed identify a problem (which had gone undetected by thier test equipment). They couldn't figure out the exact cause so they carefully matched and replaced all the drivers. When I got the speakers back, man, they were awesome. It was like I'd had a perfectly clear glass of water with a single black spec of dirt floating around that had now been removed. Heaven.... Ps I guess I should point out that while the CS isn't quite as good as the Dac1 the fact that it pretty much smokes the MF at about 1/5 the price is pretty impressive (that's not even taking into acount it's swiss army knife flexibility)

 

[Naga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SR-71Panorama That may be. I'll have to wait and see. The good thing is this equipment (for once) is not outlandishly expensive, so its not like selling one item to replace with another is the only option. LOL, I just realized that if I did sell that amp, I would be stuck with the same username for headfi, with no sr71. I don't think there is anyway to change your screen name, other than rejoining. Guess that was short sighted to name myself that . Reguardless, I see a trip to guitar center in my very near future!

/OT

it can actually be changed, depends on the policy of a given board's administrators tho