[shigzeo]

I use everything from Sensorcom (Thanks Joe) to Olives, to grey flanges from Shure. The only ones I don't use are the included comply tips! There are differences, but to be honest, my heavily used ears just prefer comfort now!

 

[shigzeo]

believe it or not, I prefer the Olives. I won't say it's for sound, but for comfort, the olives are about perfect. 

 

[KLS]

No bi-flange or triple flange in the tips list?
 
By the way, kind of off topic here, which custom, JH13 or EM3Pro, do you consider an upgrade over SM3? By upgrade here I mean instrument separation and 3D presentation, as well as clarity and transparency. Coming from SM3, would you say JH13 is a 'fatigue' phone?
 
I know people saying EM3Pro has the EarSonics housesound, so if one like the SM3 might go for the EM3Pro. Just want to know what do you think
 

 

[shigzeo]

I am listening to the latter now and well, it is an upgrade. But it would be unfair to call any good custom a 'sidegrade'. A good fit from any good custom will be an amazing upgrade. That said, I tend to prefer iems that don't necessarily need amps. The JH13Pro doesn't NEED an amp to sound great, but it really gains legs with one.
 
The EM3Pro, like the SM3, finds its legs even without an amp. It is similarly easy to drive. In a way, I find this to be a stark contrast with last year's SM2, so in terms of Earsonics' house sound, I am confused. This is my third Earsonics earphone and it is quite different from my prior experience. The SM3 and EM3Pro opened my eyes to very easy to drive earphones - they sound GREAT from an iPod touch.
 
In terms of 'clarity', however, the EM3Pro, like the SM3, has a somewhat subdued treble, so if 'clarity' to you means really bumped highs, then the EM3Pro isn't clear. It has the edge over the SM3, but it is still relatively laid back. NO fatigue at all. 
 
I will have my EM3Pro review up next week. It's funny: when I have the SM3 in my ear, I don't care for customs at all, but when I put on the EM3Pro, I think, 'aaah, of course'. 
 
It's hard to say which you will prefer, but because the EM3Pro is easier to drive, I tend to reach for it more often than the JH13Pro. They are both good with hissy sources (to an extent). The JH13Pro is a bit more expensive but they are both top  top level earphones. If you like the SM3, the EM3Pro is like a (mostly better) SM3.

 

[Pianist]

 
Quote:

I am listening to the latter now and well, it is an upgrade. But it would be unfair to call any good custom a 'sidegrade'. A good fit from any good custom will be an amazing upgrade. That said, I tend to prefer iems that don't necessarily need amps. The JH13Pro doesn't NEED an amp to sound great, but it really gains legs with one.
 

 
That depends on the ears. I have rather oddly shaped ear canals and Westone's ES3X customs did not fit me that much better than universals. I didn't feel like the ES3X was an upgrade at all over the best universals like SE530 or SM3 in sound quality. In fact, I strongly prefer e-Q7, SM3 and SE530 to ES3X. The Westone customs had a disappointingly narrow dynamic range and lacked coherency and musicality to my ears.

 

[KLS]

Thanks for the info and advice shigzeo! I don't like amp
 
I don't take clarity as of bumped highs. And I like the way SM3 sounds, laid-back treble. In my opinion, non-fatigue traits of SM3 is not only because of their laid-back treble, but also the neutrality (overall not too cold nor too warm, not too bright nor too dark), and good accuracy in producing vocals (to my ears vocal comes from SM3 is very similar to real life).
 
I have added another criteria in my definition of fatigue. Phones of dark and over-smooth presentation. Listening to FX700 and I felt uncomfortable after some 30 minutes. No, it is not the soundstage which is choking me, since the soundstage is pretty big. FX700 doesn't have any sign of unpleasant highs to drill treble hole on your eardrums (extract from your review ^^). But I feel hard to breath. The same applies to the Radius DDM.
 
I start to think that the reason SM3 is universally (as of 25th June 2010) accepted as great IEMs not only because they are technically superior to others (by technical I mean instrument separation and 3D presentation). The neutrality and accuracy of SM3 is very gentle to the ears. The airy presentation of SM3 is another strong factor. If CK10 is bright and FX700 is dark, SM3 stand in the middle.
 
Provided you found the right tips for SM3 of course.
 
I am waiting for a remolded UE10Pro and let's see how custom works on me before I jump into the big boys group

 

[shigzeo]

Quote:

 
 
That depends on the ears. I have rather oddly shaped ear canals and Westone's ES3X customs did not fit me that much better than universals. I didn't feel like the ES3X was an upgrade at all over the best universals like SE530 or SM3 in sound quality. In fact, I strongly prefer e-Q7, SM3 and SE530 to ES3X. The Westone customs had a disappointingly narrow dynamic range and lacked coherency and musicality to my ears.

I've not heard the ES3x, so I cannot comment. But I understand that it uses the same insides as the UM3x, so if the UM3x is your game, then the ES3x should be hot. The SM3 and EM3Pro don't use the same internals. The EM3Pro for instance uses a dual cross over network and though I don't know which drivers are used in the SM3, they look smaller than the EM3Pro. 
 
The main differences I find in the EM3Pro/JH13Pro/FitEar Private 333 are things like clarity from the tube. Nothing squishes the sound or causes reverbed bass or mids. Also, vibrations are more intense. Then of course, there is comfort. Personally, I am a custom person. Some are not. The EM3Pro is amazing with very good dynamic range. I think if the SM3 is your game, the EM3Pro will be your game too.
 
Again, the JH13Pro is more energetic up top and that I can agree with very much. The EM3Pro is more emotional, so it works best with organic music, but it does trance very well. For non-organic music, the JH13Pro is better. If you have very good portable amps, the JH13Pro is a pretty neutral (at the ear) earphone. The EM3Pro is neutral, but perhaps more machine neutral. I DO wish the SM3 and EM3Pro had a bit more... treble emphasis. I love the bass in both the SM3 and the EM3Pro.

 

[rawrster]

^ how much better is their separation than say something like the CK10? Also when you venture into big boy customs you can sell me the UE10 for cheap

 

[shigzeo]

^^ are you referring to the EM3Pro or the SM3? I will admit to having a hard time really plotting the answer out. The CK10 has sparklier treble than the EM3Pro or SM3, so there is an appearance of separation. That said, the CK10 is a very capable separatist (joke?). I think it comes down to something like this: The SM3 and EM3Pro are easier to drive (in some ways) than the CK10. The CK10 is another very neutral earphone, but it tends toward energy rather than leisure.
 
You will get the edge in treble whereas with the SM3 and EM3Pro, you'll get the pre-shimmer. It is hard to describe. 
 
If you really like the CK10 (and I do very much - it is still overall my favourite universal), the FitEar Private 333 will be a very worthwhile upgrade. The EM3Pro doesn't really compare to the same signature as the CK10. FitEar=(sort of) CK10; SM3=EM3Pro.

 

[KLS]

rawrster, CK10 has been my benchmark for instrument separation and detail. By detail here I don't mean treble energy solely, but detail in the bass region is great considering CK10 is not a bass monster.
 
Using stock tips on SM3 intsrument separation and detail is not really better than CK10. To be honest, inferior when compared to CK10. What is awesome using stock tips on SM3 is their 3D presentation. Using Shure yellow foamies give good instrument separation and airiness, to a level which CK10 has to bow to SM3. However, all those good dynamics and 3D presentation of SM3 vanish if you use Shure yellow foamies.
 
You know I have my SM3 sent for repair for the second time and I didn't have more chance to try out better tips for SM3, so the above observation still remain immature.
 
UE10Pro reserved for rawrster ^^
 
EDIT: My typing and grammar construction is slow...shigzeo I think rawrster addresed the question to me. Nevertheless thanks for your informative comparison of CK10 to SM3! I was thinking of FitEar333 since they are in Japan but you just help me to decide not to look in into them

 

[rawrster]

I meant the SM3. I'll need to find out the house signature (if they have one) for Earsonics before venturing into their customs. The CK10 did have a bit too much treble energy sometimes depending on the song and I dont think the Sumaya customs are available for those outside of Japan unless that has changed since that one review I read here on head-fi a while ago. Although I'll wait until my reshelled customs come in to see if I'll go there and at much more expensive customs than the one I got.
 
edit: I did address it to KLS but shigzeo answered my question and I forgot that you no longer had the SM3 in your possession. Also reserve is only if it's cheap lol

 

[SoupRKnowva]

hmm, these look pretty interesting, but alas, im not really into universals, since i got the jh-13's. Mainly just curiosity. but i did get a set of Monster Turbine Pro Coppers for free at canjam, and they sound pretty good. Anyone up for a swap for a couple weeks maybe? i just want to try out some more universals, gain a bit more experience 

 

[JosephKim]

Quote:

hmm, these look pretty interesting, but alas, im not really into universals, since i got the jh-13's. Mainly just curiosity. but i did get a set of Monster Turbine Pro Coppers for free at canjam, and they sound pretty good. Anyone up for a swap for a couple weeks maybe? i just want to try out some more universals, gain a bit more experience 

oh my goodness how wonderful it must be to spend all that money out of curiosity! . you are very blessed. and free coppers to boot! i dont even know how i will ever be able to hear iems of that calibur.

 

[SoupRKnowva]

Quote:

oh my goodness how wonderful it must be to spend all that money out of curiosity! . you are very blessed. and free coppers to boot! i dont even know how i will ever be able to hear iems of that calibur.

oh no, i didnt get the 13's out of curiosity, i only listen to new universals out of curiosity lol i just want to hear more of them, like the ck-10 and the ortofon and the sm3, those are actually the only other ones id like the hear...
 

 

[koonhua90]

Quote:

Thanks for the info and advice shigzeo! I don't like amp
 
I don't take clarity as of bumped highs. And I like the way SM3 sounds, laid-back treble. In my opinion, non-fatigue traits of SM3 is not only because of their laid-back treble, but also the neutrality (overall not too cold nor too warm, not too bright nor too dark), and good accuracy in producing vocals (to my ears vocal comes from SM3 is very similar to real life).
 
I have added another criteria in my definition of fatigue. Phones of dark and over-smooth presentation. Listening to FX700 and I felt uncomfortable after some 30 minutes. No, it is not the soundstage which is choking me, since the soundstage is pretty big. FX700 doesn't have any sign of unpleasant highs to drill treble hole on your eardrums (extract from your review ^^). But I feel hard to breath. The same applies to the Radius DDM.
 
I start to think that the reason SM3 is universally (as of 25th June 2010) accepted as great IEMs not only because they are technically superior to others (by technical I mean instrument separation and 3D presentation). The neutrality and accuracy of SM3 is very gentle to the ears. The airy presentation of SM3 is another strong factor. If CK10 is bright and FX700 is dark, SM3 stand in the middle.
 
Provided you found the right tips for SM3 of course.
 
I am waiting for a remolded UE10Pro and let's see how custom works on me before I jump into the big boys group

Even though I do not have the Ck-10, I won't say that the FX is dark. In fact, it is pretty bright sounding to me. To me, the treble is even grainier and brighter than the smooth treble on Etymotic. But anyway, hope you will get back your SM3 soon. Perhaps you should get the EM3Pro, don't you think?