[Synthax]

   
So i dug out my sansuis tonight. 
 
It looks like I had just stuck them into the DT-990 cups and taped them in place. 
 
So this time I put a layer of dense black felt against the back of the cup, then a 1/4" thick disc of some soft open cell foam. The original fiber cookie is still in place. 
 
taped them back in, and put on superlux-grade not-quite-beyer velours. along with the foam cover discs from my hd-660. 
 
Bright isn't the word. Hot, maybe? Even harsh. There is accuracy and even bass but the mids could come forward and the treble is too much. 
 
The lens i seem to recall from your post makes sense. I'll try that at some point. I'll also stick something more substantial than the wispy cover foam in front of the driver to try and tame the treble. 

I hope You'll finally achieve best possible quality for these excellent drivers In my case drivers in this housing without bass lens (inside diameter about 40mm) was not acceptable. What I have noticed is that distance of transducer from ear, sequence of damping, density, size, and shape make key role with ortho drivers - and even one small change can absolutely spoil the sound - make it more telephone effect, or too dull, or generate some nasty peaks, depressions in frequency response and so on... Is is trial and error way what many of us now very good.
 
Few days ago I have reached totally eargasm with my setup. With Conducfil 3014 cable, 4mm felt bass lens at ear side, white cosmetic wool 5mm layer on back of the cup (instead of yellow original wool) and hifiman's velour pads. It sound excellent. When I have heard it first time this configuration I've told to myself - och It sound so 3D, so real, so beauty. Till now all tracks sound perfect with this configuration. The 3D soundstage is far better than LCD's... (ok the bass of LCD is still stronger and more linear but only this) And the air in the sound is impressive, still having crystal clear bass lines. 
Yesterday my wife tried these headphones and she told my that she hardly started to cry as the music sounded so beautifull... Like never before on any system she have heard. 
 
It is absolutely a kind of synergy. Non fatiguing, lifelike, rich, dense, full of air (musical plankton) and 'liquiditity' reminds me a bit sound od hi-end open baffle system, where the sound is so free in presentation and no distortions come from overdosed bass or resonances of speaker box.
 
With velour pads the  volume pot has to be open a bot more to achieve same level of sound than with pleathers, maybe the sound is better also due to more power into it.
 
PS: Sorry for my mistakes in writing.
 

 

[SeEnCreaTive]

@Synhax

Don't worry about your grammar, music is a language everyone can understand

Its always a wonderful thing when someone finds THE set up, I'm glad you found one in which the connection of music is almost physical. Keep on listening


Those HiFi man pads look like they work very well with those cans. Velour is always nice, my 840 pads on my T50rps are the nicest I've used, but not the best I've used...

 

[Synthax]

Thanks SeEnCreaTive
 
Here's recipe:
 

 

[nick n]

as the saying goes "everything old is new again" or something to that effect.
 Here is my prediction .
 
In the next year or two or 3 we will see a fullsized portable electret again. If manufacturers deem it economically worthy, but there is a demand all around nowadays for new things.
Not ortho but still planar damit so i am posting these thoughts here it is sort of relevant in that way still.
 It's like we are reliving the late 70's again but with modern technologies.
Look at the ortho situation that reared up ( thanks in part to this thread's OP Master Wualta in only the past few years taking things by storm.
 
Already there are two companies reviving the Dynamic estat ( electret ) hybrids.
This one essentially looks like a modern AKG K340 !
http://www.head-fi.org/t/750437/enigmacoustics-dharma
The other company was posted in a recent overseas trade show thread and they have a number of models coming with this hybrid setup also.
http://www.in2uit.com/headphone/us/index.asp
 
Yeah yeah i know what you are thinking : " But Nick get your head out of your.... they are only using smaller super efficient electret tweeters "
 
...for NOW.
here's why....
 
There is an in-production technology now that allows the entire bulky set of motor windings of an electric motor to be reduced down to a thin stack of sandwiched pcb layers. this also increases the efficiency by a fair margin! AND reduces weight.
The coil windings of the traditional motor are now thin copper traces sandwiched together, in other words.
What works for motor windings works for transformer windings in other words.
If memory serves me correctly this is called Maki-ray technology.
( will have to confirm )
 
Anyhow I saw a line of efficient and light portable yard equipment, all electrical and rechargable, already using this.
 As well I have one of the Nakamura/Nice Sound Aclear Porta Headphone Conditioners.
The NIP-05TH.
This is a flat lightweight portable transformer made to super great audio specs with a 10-70k range ( they have more top of the line models also ).
Signal in, to signal out with no batteries or loss of signal strength. I did read one place they used that Maki-ray tech in it, and judging by the weight including the metal shielding case I would say it is very probable they did. Either way it matters not.
 
So onwards here.
In some , well most actually, of the older portable electrets of bygone 1970's early 80's days ( I have/had many ) the limitation besides relative inefficiency on them, sizes, and a few design limitations, was the tiny audio grade transformers that were often placed in the cup rears or in a housing box on the cable. they had a limited sweet spot and simply could not cut the mustard for the most part unless amped with a gajillion powahs. Then the clipping at high end of power feeding issues.
 
 
I feel it should be possible to integrate a more efficient lightweight transformer into the driver frame itself of a large diaphragm extremely sensitive and thin mebrane electret. Some sort of coating could be used to stop any stray EMF crud from the transformer in proximity to your head. At the very least it will allow for a super efficient light transformer to be put in there somewhere.
Couple that with ever thinner diaphragm materials, design methods and a growing headphone market and I think this will come to pass soon.
 
Not a hybrid driver setup, but a full electret setup without the constraints of yesteryear.
 
/rant over/
 
Interested to hear your thoughts?
 
Besides what is this guy on??!?!

 

[fleasbaby]

  as the saying goes "everything old is new again" or something to that effect.
 Here is my prediction .
 
In the next year or two or 3 we will see a fullsized portable electret again. If manufacturers deem it economically worthy, but there is a demand all around nowadays for new things.
Not ortho but still planar damit so i am posting these thoughts here it is sort of relevant in that way still.
 It's like we are reliving the late 70's again but with modern technologies.
Look at the ortho situation that reared up ( thanks in part to this thread's OP Master Wualta in only the past few years taking things by storm.
 
Already there are two companies reviving the Dynamic estat ( electret ) hybrids.
This one essentially looks like a modern AKG K340 !
http://www.head-fi.org/t/750437/enigmacoustics-dharma
The other company was posted in a recent overseas trade show thread and they have a number of models coming with this hybrid setup also.
http://www.in2uit.com/headphone/us/index.asp
 
Yeah yeah i know what you are thinking : " But Nick get your head out of your.... they are only using smaller super efficient electret tweeters "
 
...for NOW.
here's why....
 
There is an in-production technology now that allows the entire bulky set of motor windings of an electric motor to be reduced down to a thin stack of sandwiched pcb layers. this also increases the efficiency by a fair margin! AND reduces weight.
The coil windings of the traditional motor are now thin copper traces sandwiched together, in other words.
What works for motor windings works for transformer windings in other words.
If memory serves me correctly this is called Maki-ray technology.
( will have to confirm )
 
Anyhow I saw a line of efficient and light portable yard equipment, all electrical and rechargable, already using this.
 As well I have one of the Nakamura/Nice Sound Aclear Porta Headphone Conditioners.
The NIP-05TH.
This is a flat lightweight portable transformer made to super great audio specs with a 10-70k range ( they have more top of the line models also ).
Signal in, to signal out with no batteries or loss of signal strength. I did read one place they used that Maki-ray tech in it, and judging by the weight including the metal shielding case I would say it is very probable they did. Either way it matters not.
 
So onwards here.
In some , well most actually, of the older portable electrets of bygone 1970's early 80's days ( I have/had many ) the limitation besides relative inefficiency on them, sizes, and a few design limitations, was the tiny audio grade transformers that were often placed in the cup rears or in a housing box on the cable. they had a limited sweet spot and simply could not cut the mustard for the most part unless amped with a gajillion powahs. Then the clipping at high end of power feeding issues.
 
 
I feel it should be possible to integrate a more efficient lightweight transformer into the driver frame itself of a large diaphragm extremely sensitive and thin mebrane electret. Some sort of coating could be used to stop any stray EMF crud from the transformer in proximity to your head. At the very least it will allow for a super efficient light transformer to be put in there somewhere.
Couple that with ever thinner diaphragm materials, design methods and a growing headphone market and I think this will come to pass soon.
 
Not a hybrid driver setup, but a full electret setup without the constraints of yesteryear.
 
/rant over/
 
Interested to hear your thoughts?
 
Besides what is this guy on??!?!

 
I think you're on the right track...orthos alone have amazing potential, and people are getting more interested in headphones...electrets apparently sound better (I don't know personally), it makes sense that companies would pursue the technology to differentiate themselves in a rapidly growing market.

 

[Hutnicks]

The only problem I see is one of tooling up. Of course there is also the de rigeur trend of pricing everything at a thousand bucks to contend with as well

 

[bluemonkeyflyer]

as the saying goes "everything old is new again" or something to that effect.
 Here is my prediction .

In the next year or two or 3 we will see a fullsized portable electret again. If manufacturers deem it economically worthy, but there is a demand all around nowadays for new things.
Not ortho but still planar damit so i am posting these thoughts here it is sort of relevant in that way still.
 It's like we are reliving the late 70's again but with modern technologies.
Look at the ortho situation that reared up ( thanks in part to this thread's OP Master Wualta in only the past few years taking things by storm.

Already there are two companies reviving the Dynamic estat ( electret ) hybrids.
This one essentially looks like a modern AKG K340 !
http://www.head-fi.org/t/750437/enigmacoustics-dharma
The other company was posted in a recent overseas trade show thread and they have a number of models coming with this hybrid setup also.
http://www.in2uit.com/headphone/us/index.asp

Yeah yeah i know what you are thinking : " But Nick get your head out of your.... they are only using smaller super efficient electret tweeters "

...for NOW.
here's why....



There is an in-production technology now that allows the entire bulky set of motor windings of an electric motor to be reduced down to a thin stack of sandwiched pcb layers. this also increases the efficiency by a fair margin! AND reduces weight.
The coil windings of the traditional motor are now thin copper traces sandwiched together, in other words.
What works for motor windings works for transformer windings in other words.
If memory serves me correctly this is called Maki-ray technology.
( will have to confirm )

Anyhow I saw a line of efficient and light portable yard equipment, all electrical and rechargable, already using this.
 As well I have one of the Nakamura/Nice Sound Aclear Porta Headphone Conditioners.
The NIP-05TH.
This is a flat lightweight portable transformer made to super great audio specs with a 10-70k range ( they have more top of the line models also ).
Signal in, to signal out with no batteries or loss of signal strength. I did read one place they used that Maki-ray tech in it, and judging by the weight including the metal shielding case I would say it is very probable they did. Either way it matters not.

So onwards here.
In some , well most actually, of the older portable electrets of bygone 1970's early 80's days ( I have/had many ) the limitation besides relative inefficiency on them, sizes, and a few design limitations, was the tiny audio grade transformers that were often placed in the cup rears or in a housing box on the cable. they had a limited sweet spot and simply could not cut the mustard for the most part unless amped with a gajillion powahs. Then the clipping at high end of power feeding issues.


I feel it should be possible to integrate a more efficient lightweight transformer into the driver frame itself of a large diaphragm extremely sensitive and thin mebrane electret. Some sort of coating could be used to stop any stray EMF crud from the transformer in proximity to your head. At the very least it will allow for a super efficient light transformer to be put in there somewhere.
Couple that with ever thinner diaphragm materials, design methods and a growing headphone market and I think this will come to pass soon.

Not a hybrid driver setup, but a full electret setup without the constraints of yesteryear.

/rant over/

Interested to hear your thoughts?

Besides what is this guy on??!?!

I think you're spot on.

 

[ericj]

Dunno, Nick. 
 
I do agree that improvements in materials science and process control have probably resulted in better and better electret films, as these are used in microphones. 
 
Not so sure about the transformer tech you're dreaming of. Air core transformers aren't very efficient so i don't know about integrating it into the frame, unless you are referring to a closed or side-vented design. 
 
If you mean a bobbin or EI core, sure, maybe. iirc i recall hearing that toroidal transformers have some issues with audio signalling but i don't recall what those are. 
 
I really can't fathom printed circuits being lighter than enameled wire and ferroceramic for the same job. fwiw printed coils have been around a long, long time. Lots of floppy drive designs had printed coils in the 90's. 

 

[nick n]

who knows I find it fun to talk about at any rate.
This is that little slim relatively lightweight portable isolation transformer, though it is only a 1:1 job, and yeah not really cheap

it is a small company from Japan. Hmm see it says it is hand wound, oh well fantastic unit anyhow.



I'd be curious to see anyhow , how the new little electrets are driven in these new hybrid cans. They are all nothing major in power needed far as I know..
Someone did already email the high end company ( U.S. based =NICE! ) and they said yes they could make a fullsized headphone with one at this point.
Doesnt matter to me how they do the transformers so long as the earlier limitations don't surface much.

I have all the parts here waiting to get some initiative on making a small portable in ears 'tret about the baby Stax size, just need to find adequate housings, and time, and enthusiasm.

Anyhow this is bordering on off topic ( even though fun ) fast so on to the topic again,
did you see the new magnet arrangement in the new Audeze headphones yet?
They say they had to go back to scratch to make their own starting at the molten stage(?). Magnet manufacturing vids are fun to watch.
Much less magnetic flux on one side vs the opposite with varying trace widths to accomodate that, since it is single ended and this was a result of that plus I guess getting the weight down.
They called it lightweight in the vid at Innerfidelity post from CES just last week, but is it not 480 grams?

 

[leeperry]

Another living proof that public raving is utterly counterproductive: http://www.ebay.com/itm/281568541186
 
I take the liberty of posting this live link coz the price is ludicrous, the same way you see $250 T30's when a $175 RP18 took a while to sell here on headfi.
 
I have personally sold a NOS aniso HP1 for a bunch of money but it was mint BNIB NOS and was auctioned starting from $200, I didn't blackmail any OCD'ed collector to shell out big bucks in order to satisfy his mental illness.
 
Guys, as nick n said many times please keep the raving down as much as possible IMHO and yes I've been through this mistake myself and had to readjust....by now we all know what sounds good and what doesn't as there's been +1500 pages in this thread, now that the ortho word is out thanks to Oppo/Audeze and Hifiman a new customer base has arisen, they prolly read the last few pages of this thread and can't be hassled to check the older ones.

 

[MuZo2]

ban this thread

 

[JonahNguyen]

Hey guys. I was at a thrift store today and found found a pair of MCS 8720 headphones. Saw an earlier post about these and wanted information. Havnt goten a chance to listen to them due to them having a 1/4 inch jack. Thanks!

 

[Hutnicks]

That'll have the sharks circling

 

[GREQ]

This was going to happen at some point.

 

[leeperry]

Public raving of pricey stuff also helps protecting your investment: http://www.head-fi.org/t/596217/i-am-going-nuts-i-received-audeze-lcd-2-yesterday-cracked-today/135#post_8309897