[Takeanidea]

You're right, life would be boring if it wasn't in colour. I'm easily confused too. Thank goodness we have facts and figures to prove the point. If only it were that easy.......

 

[upstateguy]

You're right, life would be boring if it wasn't in colour. I'm easily confused too. Thank goodness we have facts and figures to prove the point. If only it were that easy.......

 
+1
 
You're absolutely right.  It's a good thing that measurement devices are not susceptible to the cognitive  biases people are.
 
If you're willing to be really honest, you'd have to admit that you don't hear the same thing from the same gear all the time. 
 
There are so many factors that influence how and what you perceive you're hearing on a daily and day to day basis.  Emotion, mood, fatigue, expectation, time of day, barometric pressure etc...

 

[Takeanidea]

I'm glad I've got cognitive bias. It helps me enjoy my music more. Happy listening 

 

[upstateguy]

  I'm glad I've got cognitive bias. It helps me enjoy my music more. Happy listening 

 
The problem with cognitive bias is that it's not reliable.  One time it might help you enjoy your music and another time it may work the other way.  Anyway, it's only a hobby!

 

[Draulius]

Am I right to think that the HD600 would be one of the best headphones for the ODAC+O2 combo due to its neutrality?

 

[dazzerfong]

  Am I right to think that the HD600 would be one of the best headphones for the ODAC+O2 combo due to its neutrality?

The best headphone for the ODAC+O2 would be one whose sound signature you already love, since it does practically nothing to the sound. If you so happen to like the HD600's sound, then yes, it'll be the best for you.

 

[SodaBoy]

   
+1
 
You're absolutely right.  It's a good thing that measurement devices are not susceptible to the cognitive  biases people are.
 
If you're willing to be really honest, you'd have to admit that you don't hear the same thing from the same gear all the time. 
 
There are so many factors that influence how and what you perceive you're hearing on a daily and day to day basis.  Emotion, mood, fatigue, expectation, time of day, barometric pressure etc...

Agreed mate. I would add that auditory memory is also quite short, as I recall it lasts only about 3-4 seconds and even then only vaguely. As a result AB testing must necessarily be quick during transitions, and listening impressions should be reinforced with objective measurement.

 

[AlanU]

  The best headphone for the ODAC+O2 would be one whose sound signature you already love, since it does practically nothing to the sound. If you so happen to like the HD600's sound, then yes, it'll be the best for you.

 
Not sure if it's that simple. The headphones is last in the chain before it hits your ears. The source and amp can greatly effect the collective combo in the chain of events. I ran my concero Hd, Burson da160 and space tech labs tube dac with my 02 objective and the "sound" was worlds apart different using the same headphones. Also adding a grant fidelity tube buffer with black treasure CV181 tubes changes the sound as well.
 
The human ear can take neutral as boring and not very engaging. This is where you can colourize the source to be more musical. Source also plays a critical role in how it presents the music as it's converted from digital to analog. As you may know not all dac's sound the same.  I must also mention how the music was mastered as well. 
 
I personally would not use the ODAC but it comes down to personal preference. I'll have to say I could happily use my objective 02 amp connected to my Space tech tube dac and super rectifier (similar setup to the woo WA5 LE minus amp section) and leave my Burson Virtuoso alone  in the dark turned "off". The sound quality I get with this combo with inexpensive objective 02 amp is incredible. 
 
However imo the 02 amp's probably well paired to a warmer headphone. 

 

[dazzerfong]

   
Not sure if it's that simple. The headphones is last in the chain before it hits your ears. The source and amp can greatly effect the collective combo in the chain of events. I ran my concero Hd, Burson da160 and space tech labs tube dac with my 02 objective and the "sound" was worlds apart different using the same headphones. Also adding a grant fidelity tube buffer with black treasure CV181 tubes changes the sound as well.
 
The human ear can take neutral as boring and not very engaging. This is where you can colourize the source to be more musical. Source also plays a critical role in how it presents the music as it's converted from digital to analog. As you may know not all dac's sound the same.  I must also mention how the music was mastered as well. 
 
I personally would not use the ODAC but it comes down to personal preference. I'll have to say I could happily use my objective 02 amp connected to my Space tech tube dac and super rectifier (similar setup to the woo WA5 LE minus amp section) and leave my Burson Virtuoso alone  in the dark turned "off". The sound quality I get with this combo with inexpensive objective 02 amp is incredible. 
 
However imo the 02 amp's probably well paired to a warmer headphone. 

Well, then your ears are very different from mine, because to me, the O2 does nothing but make it go louder. Other amps may or may not colour your source. That being said, if you don't want absolute neutral, why not get another pair of headphones that have the sound you want, rather than messing around with amps? You'll be doing yourself a much greater service if you do that.
 
Problem about your statement on DAC's in general is that DAC's aren't meant to colour the source. They're meant to take your PCM signal, then churn out an analog signal accordingly. You might have bass boost or whatnot, but the overall point isn't to deviate from the intended signal. Amps also try to achieve linearity, but tube amps can't manage this as well as solid-state devices, hence the different sound. 
 
If you like the O2 amp with warmer headphones, that means you like (gasp) warm headphones!

 

[castleofargh]

 

  The best headphone for the ODAC+O2 would be one whose sound signature you already love, since it does practically nothing to the sound. If you so happen to like the HD600's sound, then yes, it'll be the best for you.

 
Not sure if it's that simple. The headphones is last in the chain before it hits your ears. The source and amp can greatly effect the collective combo in the chain of events. I ran my concero Hd, Burson da160 and space tech labs tube dac with my 02 objective and the "sound" was worlds apart different using the same headphones. Also adding a grant fidelity tube buffer with black treasure CV181 tubes changes the sound as well.
 
The human ear can take neutral as boring and not very engaging. This is where you can colourize the source to be more musical. Source also plays a critical role in how it presents the music as it's converted from digital to analog. As you may know not all dac's sound the same.  I must also mention how the music was mastered as well. 
 
I personally would not use the ODAC but it comes down to personal preference. I'll have to say I could happily use my objective 02 amp connected to my Space tech tube dac and super rectifier (similar setup to the woo WA5 LE minus amp section) and leave my Burson Virtuoso alone  in the dark turned "off". The sound quality I get with this combo with inexpensive objective 02 amp is incredible. 
 
However imo the 02 amp's probably well paired to a warmer headphone. 

so your point against the O2 being transparent is that it is transparent. of course not everybody will like a neutral transparent sound, but what was said above is still true, if you really like the sound of one headphone, then you will like it with the O2 because nothing with change much.
your preference for another source just shows that you like the sound of the headphone altered in a certain way. nothing wrong with that, but what @dazzerfong wrote still stands IMO.

 

[AlanU]

  Well, then your ears are very different from mine, because to me, the O2 does nothing but make it go louder. Other amps may or may not colour your source. That being said, if you don't want absolute neutral, why not get another pair of headphones that have the sound you want, rather than messing around with amps? You'll be doing yourself a much greater service if you do that.
 
Problem about your statement on DAC's in general is that DAC's aren't meant to colour the source. They're meant to take your PCM signal, then churn out an analog signal accordingly. You might have bass boost or whatnot, but the overall point isn't to deviate from the intended signal. Amps also try to achieve linearity, but tube amps can't manage this as well as solid-state devices, hence the different sound. 
 
If you like the O2 amp with warmer headphones, that means you like (gasp) warm headphones!

 
If you listen to many dacs you'll find that most will have a signature house sound. This is the reason there are so many different DAC's on the market. If they were all successful in producing a so called "neutral" sound there would be no point buying a $5000 dac over the "attempted" neutral sound of the odac. Most DAC's do a good job converting digital to analog but I guess it's not really that simple if sound quality is imperative.
 
Collectively everything matters. The 02 amp does a great job "making it louder". The point of tubes is to add pleasant distortion and overtones/harmonics solid state cannot produce (lost in translation as it was analog converted to digital in the studio) for the purpose of making it appealing to the human ear as natural (not hyper detailed). Tubes are not for everyone.....However I can make my tube dac sound solid state very easily by removing my tube rectifier with a solid state diode full rectifier replacement.  
 
As a hobby I'm building the headphone rig and will add more headphones to the mix .  If I use a Stello u3 for a usb/spdif converter or using my Concero HD as a usb/spdif this changes the sound signature with the identical dac. I do not know how much you dabble or experience you have but every component changes the overall sound at your transducer headphone. Headphones colour the music with their house sound so this also becomes more of a synergy match of components.
 
I can make my Hd800 extremely full bodied and warm by swapping tubes on my dac setup. I can also make my HD650's "less" laid back by using different tubes on my dac/super rectifier. However i also can buy new headphones to take on a different sound signature. 
 
My headphone rig is still substantially cheaper than my "power conditioning" of my 2 channel. So to put this into perspective I put more emphasis on my 2 channel.
 
"gasp" warm headphones is probably incorrect in term.  I should have said a transducer not so bright. This is why I tame my hd800 with tubes. The ODAC does NOT provide a long note decay compared to a tube component. The last time I heard an ODAC it does NOT reproduce natural organic note decay from string instruments. Being "neutral" still is not the true representation of real life music that enters your ear. There is a reason why there is a draw to analog vinyl and tube equipment these days. Substantial money has to be spent on a dac to produce "vinyl" sound from a solid state device.

 

[AlanU]

 
so your point against the O2 being transparent is that it is transparent. of course not everybody will like a neutral transparent sound, but what was said above is still true, if you really like the sound of one headphone, then you will like it with the O2 because nothing with change much.
your preference for another source just shows that you like the sound of the headphone altered in a certain way. nothing wrong with that, but what @dazzerfong wrote still stands IMO.

 
The price of the 02 is so inexpensive that it's worth a try to anyone interested in the headphone world. I'd be certain anyone listening to the 02 amp blindfolded would be amazed as you change source from dac to dac. It truly is a clean amplifier. 
 
Changing headphones will make a huge difference in sound signature without a doubt. However there are many folks in the audio world that change dacs and preamps to manipulate the sound they want in their system.  There is not "Law" in how one's hobby is enjoyed
 
Dazzer is correct but only 1 variation in the vast choices in an audio rig. 
 
If music is mastered and presents a very analytical sound this can possibly be fatiguing over a period of time. Extreme neutral sound can be both a blessing and a curse LOL!! I guess the ultimate goal is to appreciate and enjoy music and not analyze it  
 
I guess this is where there is no right or wrong purchasing headphones to colour the music or tubes manipulating the source for adding the harmonics lost in translation. Colour is colour regardless where it's been added. I dont know many folks appreciating ultimate neutral sound praying that it's mastered in a musical manner. This all comes down to personal preference. 
 
A partially ear damaged musician may appreciated a beyerdynamics headphone that presents brighter headphones. Again individuals ears is the judge.......

 

[dazzerfong]

   
If you listen to many dacs you'll find that most will have a signature house sound. This is the reason there are so many different DAC's on the market. If they were all successful in producing a so called "neutral" sound there would be no point buying a $5000 dac over the "attempted" neutral sound of the odac. Most DAC's do a good job converting digital to analog but I guess it's not really that simple if sound quality is imperative.
 
Collectively everything matters. The 02 amp does a great job "making it louder". The point of tubes is to add pleasant distortion and overtones/harmonics solid state cannot produce (lost in translation as it was analog converted to digital in the studio) for the purpose of making it appealing to the human ear as natural (not hyper detailed). Tubes are not for everyone.....However I can make my tube dac sound solid state very easily by removing my tube rectifier with a solid state diode full rectifier replacement.  
 
As a hobby I'm building the headphone rig and will add more headphones to the mix .  If I use a Stello u3 for a usb/spdif converter or using my Concero HD as a usb/spdif this changes the sound signature with the identical dac. I do not know how much you dabble or experience you have but every component changes the overall sound at your transducer headphone. Headphones colour the music with their house sound so this also becomes more of a synergy match of components.
 
I can make my Hd800 extremely full bodied and warm by swapping tubes on my dac setup. I can also make my HD650's "less" laid back by using different tubes on my dac/super rectifier. However i also can buy new headphones to take on a different sound signature. 
 
My headphone rig is still substantially cheaper than my "power conditioning" of my 2 channel. So to put this into perspective I put more emphasis on my 2 channel.
 
"gasp" warm headphones is probably incorrect in term.  I should have said a transducer not so bright. This is why I tame my hd800 with tubes. The ODAC does NOT provide a long note decay compared to a tube component. The last time I heard an ODAC it does NOT reproduce natural organic note decay from string instruments. Being "neutral" still is not the true representation of real life music that enters your ear. There is a reason why there is a draw to analog vinyl and tube equipment these days. Substantial money has to be spent on a dac to produce "vinyl" sound from a solid state device.

Yes, that's all fine and dandy, but you're missing the point of the O2/ODAC: it's to simply provide a sound that's as unaltered as one could get. So while it's true tubes provide a different sound due to different harmonics (easily visible in square wave tests), that's not the point of the O2/ODAC. If you think that 'organic note decay' is better with other DAC's, more power to you. But it's an addition to the source in the end, which is contrary to the point of the O2/ODAC.
 
I've listened to quite a few DAC's though, and I struggle to hear the difference unless there are additional 'bass-boost' filters. Maybe I lack the golden ears that you have, but the whole point of DAC's isn't to alter the sound, but to provide the best (ie. accurate) conversion of digital to analog. Anything else is contrary to the point of an ideal DAC. That being said, if you don't like that, fair enough.

 

[Draulius]

I am looking to buy an O2+ODAC Combo. I noticed both JDS Labs and Mayflower Electronics manufacture one. The latter boasts a "Revision B" version with supposedly improved measurements and lower price. Of course if it were both better and cheaper I think there would be far more people purchasing it, so I'm curious.
 
Is there any reason NOT to get the Mayflower Electronics O2+ODAC Combo (Rev. B) over the JDS Labs one?

Thanks!

 

[chuck8403]

  I am looking to buy an O2+ODAC Combo. I noticed both JDS Labs and Mayflower Electronics manufacture one. The latter boasts a "Revision B" version with supposedly improved measurements and lower price. Of course if it were both better and cheaper I think there would be far more people purchasing it, so I'm curious.
 
Is there any reason NOT to get the Mayflower Electronics O2+ODAC Combo (Rev. B) over the JDS Labs one?

Thanks!

I have one from both. They work the same and I believe both are now Rev. B. You may want to compare options and decide where you want the power port, location of the input and size of the headphone jack.