New model Cowon - Plenue D2
- Thread starter tiddlywinks
- Start date
ColdsnapBry
500+ Head-Fier
Yea DX120 is near the top of my list. Just wish it had the long battery life of the Cowon, but you can't have it all
jmills8
Previously known as bmiamihk, jmills2
But the dx120 has a different sound.
None of us have heard the Plenue D2 yet, we have no idea how it sounds. We can take an educated punt though. That being said I haven't heard the DX120 either.
jmills8
Previously known as bmiamihk, jmills2
Well I heard every Cowon dap and every ibasso. Most likely theres going to be a difference.
SciOC
Headphoneus Supremus
Odd that ibasso went single DAC and cowon went dual dac. Usually the other way around... I think this is Cowons first dual DAC if I'm not mistaken. I wonder how the 43131 compares to the ak4993. I'm guessing it draws a lot less power, and that's why they used it instead of an AK DAC, but will it have the detail level?
Eggs is eggs
New Head-Fier
Yeah releasing a new player in 2019 without USB C is a bummer. I currently have the D but when I upgrade I'm not sure if I should go for the D2 or the Fiio m9. The m9 only has 10 hrs of battery life which is quite low. It sucks that the D2 has less battery life than the god-like 100 hrs of the D.
castleofargh
Sound Science Forum Moderator
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2011
- Posts
- 10,512
- Likes
- 6,155
nobody knows. historically, people used to the interface from Sony would bang their head on a wall after using Cowon for 10mn and wondering which sick person designed that DAP. also historically, Cowon has a quieter background noise. no idea if any of that applies to those latest models but it has been true for several models over the years.
it's cowon, the specs are going to be at the output of some chipset in a lab, or at best, unloaded specs. don't even dream of those numbers once you plug a low impedance IEM in it. hopefully they'll still be pretty good, but not that. I'm not sure the crosstalk figures are possible into a jack plug? and the balanced side uses a 2.5mm plug(why oh why?????????), so I would be even more amazed if it was measured at the output into any reasonable load.
if you tell me those numbers are into 32ohm, I will immediately buy at least five of those DAPs. but I'm very confident this is not the case.
Wow, agree the specs on this are crazy.
I'm very intrigued - despite (or perhaps, because of) owning a Plenue V. I wrote a review of it here on head-fi. Great little player, and it uses the same chip CS43131 (single chip). Like others here, I'm shocked they can get 4.0 Vrms out of balanced and have the amazing battery life stated. The CS43131 is a combined DAC/amp chip (the Fiio M6 just out also uses a combined ESS DAC/amp chip). It has a 2.0 Vrms output, so in balanced that would make 4, which makes sense: https://www.cirrus.com/products/cs43131/
The output current from that is relatively low though, stated on Cirrus Logic website (per chip) as:
I really rate the sound quality of the V. I've been meaning to edit my review with an update (damn I really should do that today!). After more prolonged listening I noticed the treble performance of the V and Plenue R was different - it wasn't really until I started playing some tracks with violin that I noticed, and once I did was surprised I hadn't noticed sooner. I guess because violin recordings can run a fine line between soft and romantic sounding to too trebly and slightly screechy. One such recording is this track from Chaostar:
On the R the violin came across and more soft and romantic, on the V it veered more harsh and screechy. In another thread, maybe the V or R thread, I remember likening the V to a live performance - it feels engaging and alive, but the treble can edge towards a bit hot. In normal mode it's fine, but is accentuated when using BBE effects (one of my favourite) as the DSP emphasizes the treble even more. Still, I don't want to sound like it's too bad - I sold the R and preferred the V overall, and still can listen to the V for hours without finding it too grating or sibilant - it all depends on the recording obviously, and the DSP settings.
So I'm wondering how the D2 will sound with the same chip in a dual set-up, and if Cowon have made any adjustments to the sound signature through other changes. The battery life on the V is great, it has the same size screen and runs the same 5-band EQ and JetEffect 5 effects. But with the dual DAC in the D2 I would naturally think the battery life would be less, closer to half the V, but they have it rated much higher - maybe there's a bigger battery in it, but hard to see how that would fit?
From what I understand the CS43131 chip is the CS43198 DAC combined with an amp into the same chip (they have the same SNR and THD measurements, and I remember reading that the previous CS43130 chip was the CS4398 DAC combined with an amp, so would make sense that the newer chip would have the CS43198).
Despite being overall happy with the V I have been wondering about another DAP (this is head-fi after all...). I had been thinking about the A&K SR15, which uses the CS43198, in order to see how this DAC would perform in the hands of another company, and also have USB DAC and Bluetooth options available. But damn the D2 is intriguing!
I'm very intrigued - despite (or perhaps, because of) owning a Plenue V. I wrote a review of it here on head-fi. Great little player, and it uses the same chip CS43131 (single chip). Like others here, I'm shocked they can get 4.0 Vrms out of balanced and have the amazing battery life stated. The CS43131 is a combined DAC/amp chip (the Fiio M6 just out also uses a combined ESS DAC/amp chip). It has a 2.0 Vrms output, so in balanced that would make 4, which makes sense: https://www.cirrus.com/products/cs43131/
The output current from that is relatively low though, stated on Cirrus Logic website (per chip) as:
- 30 mW per channel into 32 ohm load
- 5 mW per channel into 600 ohm load
I really rate the sound quality of the V. I've been meaning to edit my review with an update (damn I really should do that today!). After more prolonged listening I noticed the treble performance of the V and Plenue R was different - it wasn't really until I started playing some tracks with violin that I noticed, and once I did was surprised I hadn't noticed sooner. I guess because violin recordings can run a fine line between soft and romantic sounding to too trebly and slightly screechy. One such recording is this track from Chaostar:
On the R the violin came across and more soft and romantic, on the V it veered more harsh and screechy. In another thread, maybe the V or R thread, I remember likening the V to a live performance - it feels engaging and alive, but the treble can edge towards a bit hot. In normal mode it's fine, but is accentuated when using BBE effects (one of my favourite) as the DSP emphasizes the treble even more. Still, I don't want to sound like it's too bad - I sold the R and preferred the V overall, and still can listen to the V for hours without finding it too grating or sibilant - it all depends on the recording obviously, and the DSP settings.
So I'm wondering how the D2 will sound with the same chip in a dual set-up, and if Cowon have made any adjustments to the sound signature through other changes. The battery life on the V is great, it has the same size screen and runs the same 5-band EQ and JetEffect 5 effects. But with the dual DAC in the D2 I would naturally think the battery life would be less, closer to half the V, but they have it rated much higher - maybe there's a bigger battery in it, but hard to see how that would fit?
From what I understand the CS43131 chip is the CS43198 DAC combined with an amp into the same chip (they have the same SNR and THD measurements, and I remember reading that the previous CS43130 chip was the CS4398 DAC combined with an amp, so would make sense that the newer chip would have the CS43198).
Despite being overall happy with the V I have been wondering about another DAP (this is head-fi after all...). I had been thinking about the A&K SR15, which uses the CS43198, in order to see how this DAC would perform in the hands of another company, and also have USB DAC and Bluetooth options available. But damn the D2 is intriguing!
Last edited:
SciOC
Headphoneus Supremus
I'm still burning in my P2, but I've heard zero harshness in the mids and treble, running with my CL2 which is known for having an upper mid spike. The DAC in the P2 is a much higher end DAC.
That being said, 2 lines running 2.0 Vrms doesn't equal 4.0 Vrms....
That being said, 2 lines running 2.0 Vrms doesn't equal 4.0 Vrms....
[QUOTE="That being said, 2 lines running 2.0 Vrms doesn't equal 4.0 Vrms....[/QUOTE]
How come? Two amps, one for each channel, giving 2 Vrms per channel.
How come? Two amps, one for each channel, giving 2 Vrms per channel.
castleofargh
Sound Science Forum Moderator
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2011
- Posts
- 10,512
- Likes
- 6,155
if the voltage is effectively doubled into a given load, then P=V²/R so the max power should be 4 times higher.
depends on the actual design(because in the audiophile world "balanced" is used pretty loosely), but it's typical to double the voltage. instead of a + and - system on each channel where + is the signal and - is the common ground to both channels, you could get + and - both sending the same signal but out of phase so the resulting amplitude would be doubled in volt(or +6dB). not sure if it's exactly what's going on here, but usually that's the idea.
Looking at the specs and I do wonder if they made some slight adjustments compared to the V.
For the single-ended specs the stated THD is the same, but all other specs are slightly different:
At any rate, I've asked a local retailer when they'll have it in, I may end up getting one.
For the single-ended specs the stated THD is the same, but all other specs are slightly different:
- V: 126 dB SNR, -124 dB crosstalk, 1.73 Vrms output, 0.5 ohm output resistance
- D2: 125 dB SNR, -120 dB crosstalk, 2.0 Vrms, 1.0 ohm output resistance
At any rate, I've asked a local retailer when they'll have it in, I may end up getting one.
ColdsnapBry
500+ Head-Fier
If this was USB type C I'd bet getting it for sure. My biggest want out of a DAP is battery life. I don't really care much about other things. Which is why I have the Shanling M0.
Last edited:
PaganDL
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2016
- Posts
- 2,466
- Likes
- 771
As someone who uses the PD as my on the go DAP, really looking forward to this for several reasons :
1. SOUND !
2. SOUND !
3. SOUND !
4. BATTERY !
5. Finding out what other capabilities the PD2 has not listed in spec, the PD has a few which were a nice surprise.
One last thing as my humble two cents, specs only go so far to tell real world use, too many times many judge on specs only alone.
I for one evaluate what value I get out of it & as long as I am happy, I don't care what anyone else says.
Also, for all those who keep wanting USB C in all devices, stop whinging about it, fast charging & stable power &/or USB connection exists with micro USB, so live with it.
Hope everyone has a great day !
1. SOUND !
2. SOUND !
3. SOUND !
4. BATTERY !
5. Finding out what other capabilities the PD2 has not listed in spec, the PD has a few which were a nice surprise.
One last thing as my humble two cents, specs only go so far to tell real world use, too many times many judge on specs only alone.
I for one evaluate what value I get out of it & as long as I am happy, I don't care what anyone else says.
Also, for all those who keep wanting USB C in all devices, stop whinging about it, fast charging & stable power &/or USB connection exists with micro USB, so live with it.
Hope everyone has a great day !
Users who are viewing this thread
