Need recommendations for most neutral/accurate yet musical and enjoyable IEM in sub $1,000 range (going over is okay if it's really worth it)
Nov 23, 2015 at 7:39 PM Post #31 of 87
  Too bad it's not IEM and has no isolation. Otherwise I'd definitely give it a shot. 
 
Funny enough, so far out of all the IEMs I've tested the only one I would seriously consider is the RE-600S

 
It's funny you say that about the RE600's because before these E100's the best headphone/IEM I had heard were the Dunu DN-1000's I had right before discovering the E100. Yes, they're incredibly cheap compared to what I owned previously (in some cases like 10x less!) but it's just the liveliness and fun of them had me hooked. Sure I can say this IEM or this headphone did this or that better...for sure...but as a over all package they were a blast. 
 
That's how the E100 is. Yeah it isn't perfect, well scratch that, to me it is. In all honesty the only thing I'd consider them to be outclassed in is the bass. BUT that's only by the JH16Pro FP and that would purely be in the quantity and not quality. While the JH16's had MONSTER bass it was also incredibly sloppy and loose. Other than the JH16's thought the E100's have the best bass and everything I've heard compared to everything I've owned. 
 
As far as frequency response goes I know EXACTLY where you're coming from. A lot of the more popular IEM's out there are things I don't even understand how people can like them. Though, it has to be said that I have owned a lottttt of stuff over the years so I also think I might be a bit bias on this one as my experience far surpasses that of a lot of people, even headphone enthusiasts. 
 
So what are you main runner ups so far other than the RE-600S? I haven't heard them before but I will say I'm not a fan of flat. I like more forward mids and more high sparkle and deep rumble bass. 
 
Nov 23, 2015 at 8:13 PM Post #32 of 87
   
It's funny you say that about the RE600's because before these E100's the best headphone/IEM I had heard were the Dunu DN-1000's I had right before discovering the E100. Yes, they're incredibly cheap compared to what I owned previously (in some cases like 10x less!) but it's just the liveliness and fun of them had me hooked. Sure I can say this IEM or this headphone did this or that better...for sure...but as a over all package they were a blast. 
 
That's how the E100 is. Yeah it isn't perfect, well scratch that, to me it is. In all honesty the only thing I'd consider them to be outclassed in is the bass. BUT that's only by the JH16Pro FP and that would purely be in the quantity and not quality. While the JH16's had MONSTER bass it was also incredibly sloppy and loose. Other than the JH16's thought the E100's have the best bass and everything I've heard compared to everything I've owned. 
 
As far as frequency response goes I know EXACTLY where you're coming from. A lot of the more popular IEM's out there are things I don't even understand how people can like them. Though, it has to be said that I have owned a lottttt of stuff over the years so I also think I might be a bit bias on this one as my experience far surpasses that of a lot of people, even headphone enthusiasts. 
 
So what are you main runner ups so far other than the RE-600S? I haven't heard them before but I will say I'm not a fan of flat. I like more forward mids and more high sparkle and deep rumble bass. 

 
RE-600S's bass needs to be elevated and the treble too, in order to sound more dynamic and punchy (and closer to being neutral/flat). Take a look at the EQ curve I posted previously in this thread for the RE-600S to see how far it is from neutral/flat.
 
Most people mistakenly think neutral/flat is boring and lifeless, but that's incorrect. Neutral/flat/accurate means all frequencies are perceived as equal in amplitude/energy when all frequency ranges are compared to each other (such as playing a log sweep test tone, pink noise, or jumping around the different frequencies), and when you get neutral/flat/accurate, the sound is clear, punchy, full, and balanced. 
 
Other than RE-600, the RE-400 might be a better value because it measures so damn similar as the RE-600, but costs less than half of RE-600. 
 
I suspect the Dunu Titan 1 will sound very good too, but I won't know until I get it in my ears a couple of days from now (the seller just shipped it out today).
 
I'm hoping the 1964 EARS U5 will sound good too, but I'm not optimistic at this point due to past experiences. We'll see. 
 
If Dunu Titan 1 and U5 don't work out, then I guess my final choice will be RE-400, since it's so damn cheap and non-offensive, and can be EQ'd to sound just right. At that price point, even if it breaks after a year or two, I'd just get another one and not feel bad about it. Also, the form factor is so comfortable and tiny--it's a win-win. 
 
If my main source of listening is through IEMs, then I'd choose one of the TOTL IEMs and simply EQ that upper-mids/lower treble peak down to comfortable level, since TOTL IEMs tend to have better drivers with better technology, lower distortion, better transients, etc. But my main source of listening is with full-range speakers (Klein + Hummel O 300Ds and Neumann KH 805 subwoofer, in acoustically treated audio production studio), and even when using headphones, my preference is full-sized headphones, so I'm not going to be as picky about IEMs that I rarely ever listen to anyway (only when I go out, and I rarely go out). As long as it's not offensive sounding and can be EQ'd to sound pretty neutral/accurate, I'm fine with it. 
 
Nov 23, 2015 at 8:50 PM Post #33 of 87
thought of the DN-2000J's?
 
Nov 23, 2015 at 10:16 PM Post #34 of 87
  thought of the DN-2000J's?

Those wouldn't be flat enough. 
 
Have you thought of giving the Zero Audio Doppio a shot? Or have you heard of it? Dual armature but I swear it's the most flat IEM I've ever heard. You want to talk about non-offensive! Yeah, for sure, I'd give it a shot. Versus the RE-400 though...ehh...I owned the RE-400 for a minute and didn't like how flat it was. I'd almost like to say the Doppio is a bit more musical but still flat. Yeah, I'd look into it for sure. 
 
Nov 23, 2015 at 10:19 PM Post #35 of 87
Take a look at Unique Melody line up too.

A lot of praise that legacy/mason is quite balance and flat enough.

Mine still on the way, when I receive maybe I can give some impression..
 
Nov 24, 2015 at 3:51 PM Post #36 of 87
  thought of the DN-2000J's?

 
As AndroidVageta said, it's not neutral enough. Just look at the measurements available at InnerFidelity. Titan 1 is much more neutral in comparison (in fact it's one of the most neutral headphones in the hundreds that's been measured by Tyll).
 
Have you thought of giving the Zero Audio Doppio a shot? Or have you heard of it? Dual armature but I swear it's the most flat IEM I've ever heard. You want to talk about non-offensive! Yeah, for sure, I'd give it a shot. Versus the RE-400 though...ehh...I owned the RE-400 for a minute and didn't like how flat it was. I'd almost like to say the Doppio is a bit more musical but still flat. Yeah, I'd look into it for sure. 

 
I'm very wary of jumping into any headphone without seeing a measurement graph these days. Too many times I've done that in the past and was disappointed every single time. Maybe Tyll will measure it in the near future?
 
Nov 24, 2015 at 3:53 PM Post #37 of 87
Take a look at Unique Melody line up too.

A lot of praise that legacy/mason is quite balance and flat enough.

Mine still on the way, when I receive maybe I can give some impression..

I'm not considering customs due to logistical complications. Universals are much more straightforward to deal with when it comes to returns, exchanges, reselling, as well as not spending money on ear impressions.
 
Nov 24, 2015 at 4:13 PM Post #38 of 87
  I'm not considering customs due to logistical complications. Universals are much more straightforward to deal with when it comes to returns, exchanges, reselling, as well as not spending money on ear impressions.


Any Unique Melody IEM can be made into quite a nice universal. Sometimes for less money.
 
Nov 24, 2015 at 5:02 PM Post #39 of 87
Considered the dn2000???
Scales well with gear and the end to end extension (detailed) is just plain joy to listen to.
 
Nov 24, 2015 at 5:56 PM Post #40 of 87
  As AndroidVageta said, it's not neutral enough. Just look at the measurements available at InnerFidelity. Titan 1 is much more neutral in comparison (in fact it's one of the most neutral headphones in the hundreds that's been measured by Tyll).
 
I'm very wary of jumping into any headphone without seeing a measurement graph these days. Too many times I've done that in the past and was disappointed every single time. Maybe Tyll will measure it in the near future?

Titan 1 insertion depth by Tyll seems unrealistic. The large body makes a fit at the reference plane (bony part of the ear canal) very difficult, so the peak goes down in frequency.
Here's what happens as you move Titan 1 away from the reference plane. Note that this is raw data, using a comparable ear canal simulator to Tyll's.


Canal resonance is a pesky thing, isn't it?
 
Nov 24, 2015 at 6:01 PM Post #41 of 87
Considered the dn2000???
Scales well with gear and the end to end extension (detailed) is just plain joy to listen to.

From what I remember, it also didn't measure as neutral as the Titan 1.
 
  Titan 1 insertion depth by Tyll seems unrealistic. The large body makes a fit at the reference plane (bony part of the ear canal) very difficult, so the peak goes down in frequency.
Here's what happens as you move Titan 1 away from the reference plane. Note that this is raw data, using a comparable ear canal simulator to Tyll's.


Canal resonance is a pesky thing, isn't it?

That's a bit worrying. I guess I'll find out when I receive mine. I'll let you guys know which measurement is the more correct one.
 
Nov 25, 2015 at 8:47 PM Post #42 of 87
Okay, I got the Dunu Titan 1 this morning and have been testing it.
 
Tyll's measurements are definitely not what I'm hearing. Where did you get that measurement from, briskly? That is much more like what I hear. 
 
Also, the tips includes all seem to leave too much room in the ear canal and causes a pretty severe spike in the 7 KHz region, so I had to use foam tips from another IEM to get deeper insert, thus tame that brightness better. Even with the foam tips, I still have to bring down the entire upper-mids region to get it to sound more neutral. 
 
This is the EQ curve I created to get it to sound more neutral:
 

There's also a bit of upper-bass bloat centered around 200 Hz, so I had to bring that down a bit with a broad band correction. 
 
The subtle rise at 1200 Hz I added is to get it a bit closer to the Harman Target Response Curve. 
 
Those of you with the Dunu Titan 1, try my EQ curve and you'll hear a much more neutral/accurate response. 
 
I guess I'm ordering a Re-400. The U5 won't arrive for a while, and by then the current price drop for the RE-400 might be over, so I'm just going to order it now.
 
Nov 25, 2015 at 9:18 PM Post #43 of 87
Tom posted them- You can start here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/744083/dunu-titan-series-1-1es-3-5-ti-coated-diaphragm-half-in-ear-earphones/2295#post_1198644

The measurements were done by Speakerphone. He does measurements for us at CYMBACAVUM (http://cymbacavum.com/2015/04/15/electroacoustic-measurements-from-speakerphone/) and he has his own blog too: http://clarityfidelity.blogspot.kr/?m=1

Speakerphone's measurements come out similarly to Rin's, both of which reflect closely to what I hear.
Rin's neglected blog: http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/?m=0
 
Nov 25, 2015 at 10:07 PM Post #44 of 87
Basically, all the stuff shotgunshane said. You could have gotten the Fiio EX1 for a lower price which is pretty much the same thing as the Titan 1.
 
Don't you already have the RE-600? Why would you order the very similar sounding RE-400? It won't fix the bass woes you had on RE-600, and likely still be too dull.
 
Nov 25, 2015 at 10:14 PM Post #45 of 87
  Basically, all the stuff shotgunshane said. You could have gotten the Fiio EX1 for a lower price which is pretty much the same thing as the Titan 1.
 
Don't you already have the RE-600? Why would you order the very similar sounding RE-400? It won't fix the bass woes you had on RE-600, and likely still be too dull.

Now I have tested the Titan 1, I'm sure that I will never try another semi-open/open IEM, since they offer next to no isolation. If I was sitting in a doctor's office and waiting, everyone in the room would be able to hear what I'm hearing, except a very tinny and much quieter version of it. And if I'm somewhere where there's a lot of noise or music and announcement played over the PA system, I would be able to hear them. I guess if I wanted better situational awareness, a semi-open/open IEM is fine, but I use IEMs for the isolation and small size. 
 
As for RE-600, it costs more than double of the RE-400, yet they sound incredibly similar. If I'm going to be EQ'ing anyway, there's no need to pay more than double in diminishing returns for the RE-600. The RE-400 will do the job just fine, and save me a bit of money. 
 

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