[Signal2Noise]

A very enlightening post indeed, OP!

Now I wish for two things to happen:
1. Qobuz to become available here in Canada so I can dump Tidal. I enjoy using ROON and like its relationship with streaming service. I really want ROON to get on board with Amazon Music HD and/or Deezer Hi-Fi.
2. A way to get a refund for some MQA files I bought in the past. Lol.

 

[ames9000]

This needs to blow up more, and MQA need to answer for this ..

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Good job with the investigative work you did. I think this convinces me that MQA isn't important. Good thing because many of my best products don't support MQA.

As far as whether or not I'll keep my Tidal membership, the answer is YES. I don't like Apple Music, nor Amazon Music as I used them and I don't like their music discovery features. Spotify is best for that, but I prefer the sound quality of Tidal. Not sure if it's because they boost the bass or something else, but I prefer how it sounds. I don't doubt that Amazon Music and Qobuz sound better, but at $10 per month for Tidal Hifi, I don't need to change. When Spotify launches it's hifi service, hopefully the OP of this thread tests that service too. Me, I am just going to listen to it. IF it sounds better, I'll start listening again to Spotify, but I am not switching to Apple Music, Qobuz nor Amazon music..

 

[Magol79]

Incredible, thanks for showing us what's up with MQA.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

edit- deleted a different quote bc I misread



“Bashing” is not what’s happening in most circles. When a company’s claims aren’t backed up by data, and instead of actual discourse they double down (refusing to be transparent, using combative language in their response, etc) people are going to start justifiably voicing their concerns. These voices are particularly of value right now because there is a developing perception that they as consumers have been misled.

It's pointless, zealot-style bashing. Nobody has been misled. People might have paid money for something and it turns out other people give them reasons not to like it. That happens all the time for people who can't think for themselves.

The "truth" about MQA has been public since Day 2. There are countless threads here about the technicalities.

If you don't like a streaming service or any other service or product, just don't use it. It's that simple.

 

[sabloke]

From MQA's website. How many of those assertions are true?

Based on pioneering research into human neuroscience, the award-winning British technology captures every element of a recording’s resolution and timing. This level of detail recreates a natural sound. It enables the listener to position the instruments and performers to build a 3D sonic picture.

Using a unique ‘origami’ folding technique, the information is packaged efficiently to retain all the detail from the studio recording. While MQA retains 100% of the original recording, an MP3 file keeps just 10% of the data. Digital Trends has named MQA’s hi-res audio format a “game-changer”.


Devices or apps with MQA decoding capability can fully ‘unfold’ the MQA file and reveal the original master resolution. They will also authenticate the file to guarantee that it is the definitive master recording from the studio. According to What Hi-Fi?: “Wherever there is sound, MQA delivers the best version of it.”

 

[bfreedma]

It's pointless, zealot-style bashing. Nobody has been misled. People might have paid money for something and it turns out other people give them reasons not to like it. That happens all the time for people who can't think for themselves.

The "truth" about MQA has been public since Day 2. There are countless threads here about the technicalities.

If you don't like a streaming service or any other service or product, just don't use it. It's that simple.

How is identifying and discussing the truth about MQA "bashing", particularly when Meridian/MQA absolutely refuses to provide operational validation of their product?

People paid money based on MQA's claims including being lossless which are verifiably false. If I sold you a Ferrari and you found out it was a Ford Fiesta with a Ferrari badge pasted on, you wouldn't have an issue?

 

[gikigill]

How is identifying and discussing the truth about MQA "bashing", particularly when Meridian/MQA absolutely refuses to provide operational validation of their product?

People paid money based on MQA's claims including being lossless which are verifiably false. If I sold you a Ferrari and you found out it was a Ford Fiesta with a Ferrari badge pasted on, you wouldn't have an issue?

Ferrari isnt innocent either.

https://www.topgearbox.com/cars/ent...y-well-never-see-a-true-laferrari-lap-time-2/

https://www.hotcars.com/why-top-gears-chris-harris-banned-driving-ferraris/

https://jalopnik.com/how-ferrari-spins-5760248

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=242&t=1625942

Ferrari also protects its test cars jealously and you're not supposed to look under the hood when testing a car. They send a whole team of enigneers to ensure the test car is working "optimally" which means it will be better and faster than the one you buy off the lot.

A roadgoing Ferrari beat the track focused Mclaren 675LT and no one in the automotive world was buying it and Ferrari wont allow you to peek under the hood as to how an "ordinary" Ferrari beat the 675LT which can set a 10 second drag time.

MQA might have taken a leaf out of Ferraris book.

 

[steviewonderbread]

.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

How is identifying and discussing the truth about MQA "bashing", particularly when Meridian/MQA absolutely refuses to provide operational validation of their product?

People paid money based on MQA's claims including being lossless which are verifiably false. If I sold you a Ferrari and you found out it was a Ford Fiesta with a Ferrari badge pasted on, you wouldn't have an issue?

The entire Audiophile industry is filled with snake oil. This is great information and sufficient to assist with decision making. We just need to vote with our wallets. That's the best way to effect change. How can I help?

1) Don't buy products based on their MQA features.
2) Don't use a service because it supports MQA.

I love Chord and Schiit products. Happy I bought them inspite fo the fact they don't support MQA. Now, I feel more confident about those purchases.

I've already posted about what I will do about Tidal. I like it and will keep it until Spotify launches its Hifi service and I like it better than Tidal.

No need to do much else at this point. Just support the efforts of people @GoldenOne doing the research he has done. I think it's great work and should continue.

 

[BenKatz]

It's very surprising some people don't get simple things about a service being sold with a set of features and whether it is honest or dishonest - and how there are LAWS against misrepresenting what one is asking money for (aka LYING).

This is irrelevant of the product/service. Preference is also completely irrelevant, as this is NOT the issue here. If someone sells you a cake that say it is made of genuine 100% marzipan, and you LOVE how it tastes, because it might taste pretty nice - but upon further investigation it turns out the "marzipan" is nothing but a frosting made with powdered milk and flavors - it does NOT make it OK, no matter how much you LOVE that cake - it is false advertising and they are selling a lie.

Is that example simple and straight forward enough ? Do you see now ?

We don't all know how to appreciate music quality - this is indeed an issue - that is why in the VAST VAST majority of cases, even on high end gear, a well mastered track in mp3 vs 16 bit flac, when it comes to blind testing (ABX) it is inconclusive. The same can be said about appreciating certain subtle nuances in taste when trying out a good burger and an excellent burger with a special type of veal - or when testing out TVs - many people prefer Samsung for example, on account of poppy colors, etc, when TVs like Sony, LG and Panasonic have a much better natural (small DeltaE deviation) color tuning. And parallels can go on forever.

Tidal is employing the MQA technology and they are advertising a set of features - "lossless", "experience studio quality", "every detail in the original recording" and so on - and these have been proven to be absolutely not true - by measurements, very in-detail ones, multiple times by multiple people in any way imaginable. No one needs to be an "authority" in any field to understand measurements and see that there is a bunch of noise and problems with the audio signals. It would be COMPLETELY disingenuous to support such statement - this means that no customer could ever contest false statements by any manufacturer simply because they are not "experts" and should as a result shut up.

It's not about me, you, or anyone liking how it sounds. It's about if it is GENUINE vs what they are advertising they are selling. And as long as it is NOT, and it is proven it is NOT by concrete objective means - which it has been, multiple times - it means they have been paid a lot of money, from a lot of people, for a long period of time, for something they DID NOT deliver, and they should be sued for that, plain and simple.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

If people are so sure laws are being violated they should go pay some lawyers. This is not the place for crusades against companies. Attacking people here will not change anything.

 

[bfreedma]

This is not about preference - if you like how MQA sounds, I doubt anyone would take issue. What people are taking issue with is MQA's utterly false claims about the technical value and operation of their product.

MQA can solve this in 10 minutes - simply be transparent about what their codec actually does. Not sure what that would be though, since we know now that MQA is not lossless, doesn't accurately represent the original bit rate of the master they use, and is verifiably lower audio quality than CD. Worse yet, we now know that even selecting High rather than Hi-Fi in Tidal still forces the compromised MQA master on the listener and not the standard CD master.

Still, if MQA would show their data and not simply try to wave away this work, I would spend as much time as necessary reading and understanding their technology. I'm not waiting up nights for that to happen though.

 

[Chibs]

So far it is just gaining momentum and no sign of flop. Is MQA perfect? No. Would I like to see a world with only MQA and no native Redbook or PCM hires options? Also no. But I like the MQA masters, they sound great in most cases. I haven't compared them to the identical master in non-MQA versions. I'm good with choices and I find the bashing distasteful. Some people have too much free time.

A great example of why MQA / Tidal is becoming more popular. Big companies like Tidal & MQA love this type of complacency. If everyone falls in line they can keep doing what their doing. What a shame.

Personally, I like to know I'm streaming the best possible version of what I'm listening to. I was not aware of all of this before Golden Sound posted the YT video. Noticed a bit of friction whenever MQA was mentioned on forums but never looked into it. Sort of reminds me of "he who shall not be named". On a live stream, I asked a YT reviewer which MQA enabled DAC he recommended and got an emotional response back. Something along the lines of "I'm not getting into MQA here" My question ended up unanswered.

I get it now though.
Had no clue about the Neil Young scandal either. Messing with Mr. Young is like picking a fight with the entire city of Toronto. You just don't do that. Seriously.
My experience with Tidal wasn't all bad. Their app's suggestions were on point & gave me a whole new playlist that I'm still enjoying. I had problems with the way "force volume" would get greyed out after the first song and then the next song would cut audio right @ the beginning. Had an epic email chain with Tidal tech support trying to fix this. Each reply was from a different lady and we didn't really get past basic trouble shooting that was already attempted before. Ultimately, nothing was fixed. I hope in the future, Tidal can get their stuff together. I enjoyed the way the app was laid out and really do miss my Magenta light

Chibs

 

[davidfrance]

I know very little about this subject, but in thinking about it this morning while having my coffee, I wondered if it is this :

The stuff that Tidal is saying about MQA is not true. MQA is not lossless, to start with, among other things.

But on the other hand, the sound quality from MQA is very good.

Such a situation would lead to a lot of controversy and disagreement.