[NamelessPFG]

 
Quote:

True. It's the integrated parts that increase the costs. And high quality external solutions are often expensive. Still, there aren't that many laptop screens that are high quality enough to warrant going through all that, except if the user only wants to use a single screen, which in this case would be the laptop's screen.

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of cheap TN crap on the market, especially with laptops.
 
I'd definitely consider it if I had (or could afford $2,500 for) an HP EliteBook 8740w with the DreamColor screen option, though. 17" of 1920x1200 IPS goodness...but then the 8760w screwed it all up by downgrading to 1920x1080 like damn near every other laptop these days.
 
And while I'm talking capture cards, there's the Micomsoft SC-500N1 for PCI-Express x1 slots that I wouldn't mind having in my desktop. Handles 240p RGB from retro consoles and arcade boards pretty well, but Micomsoft products are generally expensive and only sold in Japan...

 

[SniperCzar]

 
Quote:

I just did some Battlefield 2 and RightMark 3DSound testing. It seems that Dolby Headphone distorts the sound less, but CMSS-3D Headphone still has the advantage where positioning is concerned, especially when it has the 3D sound information to present a binaural sound image and not a virtual 7.1 one. (Yes, I can distinguish the rear sound cues just fine. There's also the height cues that DH totally lacks only because it's presenting virtual 7.1.) This is without messing around with the EQ to try and undo the offset in tonal balance.

You beat me to it. If you're going to be doing A/B testing, throw some EQ in there so you're not comparing changes in tonal shifts alongside your testing for actual positioning. I want to be able to listen to a position test without it favoring bass-heavy vs. bass-light headphones.
 
Quote:

If only we didn't have to make tradeoffs like this...I'd like to experiment more with Rapture3D's binaural HRTF implementation, but it only works with OpenAL titles and it costs money to use it with games that it's not just outright bundled with (like DiRT 2). Were there a way to use it with DirectSound3D and software-processed audio titles too, the paid versions would be more enticing.

Here's a thought - there's a DH option in MPC-HC (Media Player Classic - Home Cinema) as well as an HRTF option in ffdshow I couldn't find any documentation on. How about one of us with a Creative card does some testing? Ideally we'd have an untouched clip of a surround source (game or movie) and then run it through MPC untouched/CMSS (at driver level)/DH (at media player level)/HRTF (at media player level) then run it all through again after it's been EQd to a neutral level? Capture all the outputs from stereo mix to remove the hardware differences from the comparison and bundle all the audio tracks in with the same video file. That way you can change between the various processing on the fly and people with things like Yamaha Silent Cinema can test the original surround which is included against their own receivers as well.

 

[Roller]

Quote:

 

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of cheap TN crap on the market, especially with laptops.
 
I'd definitely consider it if I had (or could afford $2,500 for) an HP EliteBook 8740w with the DreamColor screen option, though. 17" of 1920x1200 IPS goodness...but then the 8760w screwed it all up by downgrading to 1920x1080 like damn near every other laptop these days.
 
And while I'm talking capture cards, there's the Micomsoft SC-500N1 for PCI-Express x1 slots that I wouldn't mind having in my desktop. Handles 240p RGB from retro consoles and arcade boards pretty well, but Micomsoft products are generally expensive and only sold in Japan...

 
Oh, that EliteBook is quite sweet and the overall system specs make up for a very pleasant user experience, I've used machines with very similar specs and they certainly get the job done.
 
Unfortunately, I'd only be interested in external solutions due to running a laptop here, allowing me to use it with my machine as well as on a future desktop. And having to endure 1920x1080 here is definitely terrible for computing, especially since the last work computer I used had proper 1920x1200. If I wanted a TV, I'd get a TV lol, but budget constrains can be a pain...

 

[SniperCzar]

Quote:

Sure would be nice if they made an ExpressCard or USB 3.0 HDMI capture device, wouldn't it?
 
...Oh, wait a minute. There's already the Blackmagic Design Intensity Shuttle, but it costs $200. Ouch. At least it captures component, S-Video, and composite too.

 
I've personally used a Hauppauge Colossus (PCI-E) and it worked pretty well (aside from a few issues with the included IR remote control software). Cheaper than the one you mentioned too. They also have the HD-PVR which I think IS actually USB but it's nowhere near as nice.
 
Unfortunately I have no xbox or PS3 and I no longer have the Colossus either.

 

[Roller]

Quote:

 
I've personally used a Hauppauge Colossus (PCI-E) and it worked pretty well (aside from a few issues with the included IR remote control software). Cheaper than the one you mentioned too. They also have the HD-PVR which I think IS actually USB but it's nowhere near as nice.
 
Unfortunately I have no xbox or PS3 and I no longer have the Colossus either.

If you only had issues with the remote and not the capture quality itself, then it should be good enough for you to keep it. Are you using a different solution now?
 
Also, it would be good to have an external solution that used something with more bandwidth than USB 2.0, as its sustained rates aren't enough for higher quality video. Are there any USB 3.0 solutions out in the wild already?

 

[rabinzero]

INCOMING TURTLE BEACH DSS2 REVIEW by Rabinzero
 
So my dss2 decoder came in and I have to say after testing it, I can NOT recommend this.  Compared to my Tritton AX720 decoder, this thing is extremely weak.  I'm using Q701's and at full volume I felt like I could've kept going 60% more just to get decent sound, but obviously I was already maxed out.  The Sound EQ's don't do much to help the shortage of power to push these phones.  The AX720 could push the phones with no problems.  These struggle and will need an amp if you're going to get it.  However, even with an amp, if you've been using an Astro Mixamp or Tritton Decoder box I feel this would be a step down significantly, BUT this is based on my listening preference.  Sure they are quieter with the slight hiss that the Tritton's have, but now I know why.  They are too quiet.  If you're not familiar with what Astro and Tritton decoders provide when it comes to decent power to push phones and the Dolby Headphone they offer, then I could see this being fine.  However, for accuracy and being fooled that I was even wearing headphones when it came to the Tritton decoder, I have to stick with them.  Buy with caution for those thinking of upgrading from what they already have to this.  I will be sending them back.

 

[Eric_C]

rabinzero, before you send them back could you test them for double-amping? Maybe that will get you the volume you need.

 

[NamelessPFG]

 
Quote:

You beat me to it. If you're going to be doing A/B testing, throw some EQ in there so you're not comparing changes in tonal shifts alongside your testing for actual positioning. I want to be able to listen to a position test without it favoring bass-heavy vs. bass-light headphones.

Here's a thought - there's a DH option in MPC-HC (Media Player Classic - Home Cinema) as well as an HRTF option in ffdshow I couldn't find any documentation on. How about one of us with a Creative card does some testing? Ideally we'd have an untouched clip of a surround source (game or movie) and then run it through MPC untouched/CMSS (at driver level)/DH (at media player level)/HRTF (at media player level) then run it all through again after it's been EQd to a neutral level? Capture all the outputs from stereo mix to remove the hardware differences from the comparison and bundle all the audio tracks in with the same video file. That way you can change between the various processing on the fly and people with things like Yamaha Silent Cinema can test the original surround which is included against their own receivers as well.

An interesting thought with not having to repeat videos using multiple audio streams in the same package (can't believe I didn't think of this earlier given my prior exposure to .MKV files), but your method of recording it just wouldn't work for Dolby Headphone. Also, I'd have to make sure I'm using a game with some sort of timedemo support to ensure that the audio and video match up consistently.
 
Game audio, especially not hardware-accelerated DirectSound3D or OpenAL, just doesn't work like movies and their pre-encoded Dolby Digital or DTS tracks. Stereo Mix/What U Hear only captures front left/right PCM as well, not the surround channels. (I suppose that's why they call it Stereo Mix...)
 
In other words, with my current equipment (no C-Media card with DH to capture Stereo Mix from), I still have no choice but to loopback the SU-DH1's output back into the X-Fi Titanium HD's input, complete with any colorations it may bring. Still, I could probably EQ for that in the end, given enough time with a tone generator.
 
To get a reference point, what EQ settings do you like to use on the X-Fi with CMSS-3D Headphone turned on?
 
Quote:

I've personally used a Hauppauge Colossus (PCI-E) and it worked pretty well (aside from a few issues with the included IR remote control software). Cheaper than the one you mentioned too. They also have the HD-PVR which I think IS actually USB but it's nowhere near as nice.
 
Unfortunately I have no xbox or PS3 and I no longer have the Colossus either.

That might work for HD recording, but my retro console collection demands 240p RGB support, too. That happens to be significantly rarer, to the point where until the Micomsoft SC-500N1 showed up, the only card that I knew could do it was the long-discontinued Immersive Holo3DGraph II (and very late revisions of the first one). I almost got one of those on eBay, but got outbid...and wasn't expecting a Second Chance Offer, by which time I already bought something else and no longer had the funds.

 

[rabinzero]

Good idea Eric C.  I'll give that a spin this weekend and report back

 

[SniperCzar]

Quote:

An interesting thought with not having to repeat videos using multiple audio streams in the same package (can't believe I didn't think of this earlier given my prior exposure to .MKV files), but your method of recording it just wouldn't work for Dolby Headphone. Also, I'd have to make sure I'm using a game with some sort of timedemo support to ensure that the audio and video match up consistently.
 
Game audio, especially not hardware-accelerated DirectSound3D or OpenAL, just doesn't work like movies and their pre-encoded Dolby Digital or DTS tracks. Stereo Mix/What U Hear only captures front left/right PCM as well, not the surround channels. (I suppose that's why they call it Stereo Mix...)
 
In other words, with my current equipment (no C-Media card with DH to capture Stereo Mix from), I still have no choice but to loopback the SU-DH1's output back into the X-Fi Titanium HD's input, complete with any colorations it may bring. Still, I could probably EQ for that in the end, given enough time with a tone generator.
 
To get a reference point, what EQ settings do you like to use on the X-Fi with CMSS-3D Headphone turned on?

That might work for HD recording, but my retro console collection demands 240p RGB support, too. That happens to be significantly rarer, to the point where until the Micomsoft SC-500N1 showed up, the only card that I knew could do it was the long-discontinued Immersive Holo3DGraph II (and very late revisions of the first one). I almost got one of those on eBay, but got outbid...and wasn't expecting a Second Chance Offer, by which time I already bought something else and no longer had the funds.

It doesn't matter if it only captures 2 channel if it's already been converted to virtual surround. Untouched would be untouched and wouldn't need to be recaptured at least for video clips (I don't know about how you'd capture a game in surround though)
 
You'd only need two runs of the demo, one with CMSS on (to directly handle the game engine position cues) and one with CMSS off with some method of capturing the raw multichannel audio out. Then you could add DH/the ffdshow HRTF in software via the option in MPC-HC
 
As for EQ, I do only slight EQ adjustments on my E17 so it's an apples to oranges comparison and you'd need someone with actual monitors to take some time and remove all the differences, especially on the low end.
 
I no longer use the Colossus because I sold it along with a custom rig I built for a client when I stopped watching network TV. However if I remember right it can actually capture multichannel audio over HDMI so it might be a viable solution for producing a multichannel game audio sample to work with.

 

[chicolom]

Quote:

So my dss2 decoder came in and I have to say after testing it, I can NOT recommend this.  Compared to my Tritton AX720 decoder, this thing is extremely weak.  I'm using Q701's and at full volume I felt like I could've kept going 60% more just to get decent sound, but obviously I was already maxed out.

That seems abnormal.  The DSS 1 had enough volume for the Q701 I think. 

 

[chicolom]

Quote:

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of cheap TN crap on the market, especially with laptops.
 
I'd definitely consider it if I had (or could afford $2,500 for) an HP EliteBook 8740w with the DreamColor screen option, though. 17" of 1920x1200 IPS goodness...but then the 8760w screwed it all up by downgrading to 1920x1080 like damn near every other laptop these days.
 
And while I'm talking capture cards, there's the Micomsoft SC-500N1 for PCI-Express x1 slots that I wouldn't mind having in my desktop. Handles 240p RGB from retro consoles and arcade boards pretty well, but Micomsoft products are generally expensive and only sold in Japan...

My HP DV5T laptop has a 15.4" @ 1680 x 1050 which is pretty good.  It was the one of the last 16x10 laptops before they all switched to 16 x9 with usually 1280p or 1365p  :\  Mine seems to have better contrast and is less washed out than newer laptop screens.  Not sure why (I'm sure its a TN panel...)
 
 
There's not many options for video capture with laptops.  At least laptops that don't have USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt, like mine

 
This AverMedia thing gets good reviews and is cheaper than the Hauppage box: http://www.amazon.com/AVERMEDIA-C281-Game-Capture-Record-Xbox/dp/B005YR0M0W/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
You can slide your own HDD in to record to.  Only accepts component though.  I guess they don't make external stand-alone capture device with HDMI inputs?
 
I want to play in HDMI, so I would need a HDMI splitter AND a HDMI to component converter.  That's xbox > hdmi splitter > hdmi to component converter > capture device.  That's getting a little ridiculous

 
 

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

That's what I been saying. TN seems to have a bad rep, yet my Gateway monitor is apparently TN, and it compares favorably to the pretty high end Samsung LCD TVs from a few years ago. Aside from viewing it from a lower view point (where your eyes are considerably lower than the center of the screen), the screen is amazing. My Panny plasma won awards for being one of (if not THE) the best price/performance TV of last year on some sites. My monitor doesn't look far off from it, other than the obvious plasma/lcd differences.

Speaking of capture devices, I REALLY want one. I need it to do be damn good, record 720p very well and be easy to use.

 

[NamelessPFG]

 
Quote:

It doesn't matter if it only captures 2 channel if it's already been converted to virtual surround. Untouched would be untouched and wouldn't need to be recaptured at least for video clips (I don't know about how you'd capture a game in surround though)
 
You'd only need two runs of the demo, one with CMSS on (to directly handle the game engine position cues) and one with CMSS off with some method of capturing the raw multichannel audio out. Then you could add DH/the ffdshow HRTF in software via the option in MPC-HC
 
As for EQ, I do only slight EQ adjustments on my E17 so it's an apples to oranges comparison and you'd need someone with actual monitors to take some time and remove all the differences, especially on the low end.
 
I no longer use the Colossus because I sold it along with a custom rig I built for a client when I stopped watching network TV. However if I remember right it can actually capture multichannel audio over HDMI so it might be a viable solution for producing a multichannel game audio sample to work with.

What I'm saying is that there is no method that I am aware of to capture the raw multi-channel output in the first place with the equipment I have. If it's not already pre-processed and downmixed to two channels, it's lost to Stereo Mix. And no, I can't just loopback HDMI without buying a lot of extra equipment.
 
Quote:

That's what I been saying. TN seems to have a bad rep, yet my Gateway monitor is apparently TN, and it compares favorably to the pretty high end Samsung LCD TVs from a few years ago. Aside from viewing it from a lower view point (where your eyes are considerably lower than the center of the screen), the screen is amazing. My Panny plasma won awards for being one of (if not THE) the best price/performance TV of last year on some sites. My monitor doesn't look far off from it, other than the obvious plasma/lcd differences.
Speaking of capture devices, I REALLY want one. I need it to do be damn good, record 720p very well and be easy to use.

Some TN LCDs fare better than others in the viewing angle department, but it's on laptops especially that the poor vertical viewing angles tend to annoy me. TVs tend to fare better.
 
As for capture devices, there's plenty floating about if you just need component or HDMI. It's finding one that handles the really old stuff just as good as the new that's problematic, and were it not for the SC-500N1, I'd probably be hosed as far as finding a 240p RGB capture card goes.
 
Quote:

My HP DV5T laptop has a 15.4" @ 1680 x 1050 which is pretty good.  It was the one of the last 16x10 laptops before they all switched to 16 x9 with usually 1280p or 1365p  :\  Mine seems to have better contrast and is less washed out than newer laptop screens.  Not sure why (I'm sure its a TN panel...)

As mentioned before, not all TN panels are equal, and the vast majority of laptops are TN.
 
Fortunately, my HP EliteBook 2730p packs an AFFS+ panel, practically the best one can get in terms of viewing angles and outdoor viewability. It's especially important on that one since it's a convertible Tablet PC and it's going to be viewed from all angles in slate mode. The only issue is that HP, Lenovo, and the others like having people play the panel lottery in that you're not always sure exactly what you're going to get unless you're buying used and ask the seller for the monitor hardware ID.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

What do you recommend? I prefer a device that records very smoothly, doesn't add input lag when I'm recording (I can imagine some adding input lag, unless you buy a splitter that goes directly to the TV, so as to bypass the device.) Also, with some software to at least edit my videos.

Its so funny, I was looking into one yesterday, and all the sudden you guys talk about it.

Hmm, I just realized,if I get one of these devices, and run the Mixamp audio out to the devices audio in, I can record that Dolby Headphone goodness so you all can hear it.

Gotta love that DH stays in the signal once its been added.