[swspiers]

I wasn't being sarcastic or cynical earlier, I just honestly never considered metalcore to be actual metal. Does taking that designation away from it make it anything less than it is? Does music have to fall into the "metal family" in order to be credible? Of course not, but since I didn't (and don't) consider it to be metal (any more than nu-metal is metal... or Metallica heh), I just figure it ought to be discussed elsewhere. No need to get all up in arms and create a ten page drama over it... if you disagree with me, discuss it here anyway, I'm not a mod.

On with the show!

But dude: 10-page drama and righteous indignation is so...METAL

I remember screaming matches about Judas Priest's "Turbo" when I was a kid. Even a fist-fight or two.

But dissing and dismissing an entire genre as being "not metal" is going to bring out the torches and pitchforks. I should know- I don't classify "Black Metal" as metal at all.

(and here they come...)

:veryevil:

(and I'm pretty much kinda just joking)

:evil:

 

[Vigrith]

  Some melodic death metal bands (like In Flames and Soilwork) also went on to integrate metalcore into their style.

 
Absolutely. I just happen not really like any of them, I don't think it has anything to do with how heavy or how loud they sound as opposed to other metal genres or vice versa - I regard Killswitch Engage highly as a band, they have quite a decent amount of songs that I enjoy (including their cover of Holy Diver, which a lot of people tend to dislike).
 
Bands like Bullet for My Valentine and As I Lay Dying for example really bother me, I'm just not a fan of a lot of their concepts and key elements. I'm okay with the way Killswitch mix clean vocals with growls, and I'm a big fan of properly done growling (eg. Ihsahn, Chris Barnes, Michael

Å​

kerfeldt, etc), even shrieking, but I cannot tolerate the way a lot of the lead vocals for metalcore bands scream most the time, especially when they mix those "emotional" clean passages during choruses and whatnot. I am fully aware I am generalizing and I know for a fact there are good songs lost somewhere in the middle that I won't listen to simply because I dislike the band that sings it.
 
This particular song is a good illustration of what I mean - Repressed by Apocalyptica with Max Cavalera and Matt Tuck - Sepultura is one of my favourite bands and honestly I don't even really mind Matt's screaming but then when the chorus comes in it's just... I can't enjoy that, it sort of works with the song's lyrics that are being sung at the time even but I just don't like it.
 
I'm all for extreme genres but I feel that the more the bands err on the side of (post) hardcore the more I dislike them. I've always been unable to listen to stuff like Alexisonfire and Silverstein, again mostly because of their vocal style more than anything else. August Burns Red have a decent amount of songs with just growls in them as far as I'm aware and I still can't get into it, the musicality is just not there, things don't click together for some reason.
 
I guess I'm just very particular about singing styles, I think clean/harsh passages done properly are fantastic and some of my favourite albums rely heavily on that duality too (much of Opeth's work for example) but if it's done in a way that sounds like the person's trying too hard I get turned off immediately. This is a perfect example of it being done in a way I think is pretty much perfect;
 
 

 

[Music Alchemist]

Self-titled:

From "Theia"

 
mm, that was relaxing and dreamy. I closed my eyes and bobbed my head to it. haha. Was expecting something more violent and scary what with your emphasis on heaviness. I get the feeling that this would be more suited to speakers than headphones. I haven't bought much stoner/doom, but I'm assuming you're familiar with Sahg. And Electric Wizard is a given.
 

I wasn't being sarcastic or cynical earlier, I just honestly never considered metalcore to be actual metal. Does taking that designation away from it make it anything less than it is? Does music have to fall into the "metal family" in order to be credible? Of course not, but since I didn't (and don't) consider it to be metal (any more than nu-metal is metal... or Metallica heh), I just figure it ought to be discussed elsewhere. No need to get all up in arms and create a ten page drama over it... if you disagree with me, discuss it here anyway, I'm not a mod.

On with the show!

 
Listen to the tracks in my long metalcore post on the previous page. After that you will have no choice but to acknowledge metalcore as a legitimate metal genre.
 

  Absolutely. I just happen not really like any of them, I don't think it has anything to do with how heavy or how loud they sound as opposed to other metal genres or vice versa - I regard Killswitch Engage highly as a band, they have quite a decent amount of songs that I enjoy (including their cover of Holy Diver, which a lot of people tend to dislike).
 
Bands like Bullet for My Valentine and As I Lay Dying for example really bother me, I'm just not a fan of a lot of their concepts and key elements. I'm okay with the way Killswitch mix clean vocals with growls, and I'm a big fan of properly done growling (eg. Ihsahn, Chris Barnes, Michael

Å​

kerfeldt, etc), even shrieking, but I cannot tolerate the way a lot of the lead vocals for metalcore bands scream most the time, especially when they mix those "emotional" clean passages during choruses and whatnot. I am fully aware I am generalizing and I know for a fact there are good songs lost somewhere in the middle that I won't listen to simply because I dislike the band that sings it.
 
This particular song is a good illustration of what I mean - Repressed by Apocalyptica with Max Cavalera and Matt Tuck - Sepultura is one of my favourite bands and honestly I don't even really mind Matt's screaming but then when the chorus comes in it's just... I can't enjoy that, it sort of works with the song's lyrics that are being sung at the time even but I just don't like it.
 
I'm all for extreme genres but I feel that the more the bands err on the side of (post) hardcore the more I dislike them. I've always been unable to listen to stuff like Alexisonfire and Silverstein, again mostly because of their vocal style more than anything else. August Burns Red have a decent amount of songs with just growls in them as far as I'm aware and I still can't get into it, the musicality is just not there, things don't click together for some reason.
 
I guess I'm just very particular about singing styles, I think clean/harsh passages done properly are fantastic and some of my favourite albums rely heavily on that duality too (much of Opeth's work for example) but if it's done in a way that sounds like the person's trying too hard I get turned off immediately. This is a perfect example of it being done in a way I think is pretty much perfect;

 
Same goes to you. Listen to those tracks I shared. (All of them.) Metalcore is far more diverse than you seem to realize.
 
Regardless, whether a band is metal and whether you like a band have nothing to do with one another.

 

[swspiers]

Self-titled:


From "Theia"

mm, that was relaxing and dreamy. I closed my eyes and bobbed my head to it. haha. Was expecting something more violent and scary what with your emphasis on heaviness. I get the feeling that this would be more suited to speakers than headphones. I haven't bought much stoner/doom, but I'm assuming you're familiar with Sahg. And Electric Wizard is a given.

I wasn't being sarcastic or cynical earlier, I just honestly never considered metalcore to be actual metal. Does taking that designation away from it make it anything less than it is? Does music have to fall into the "metal family" in order to be credible? Of course not, but since I didn't (and don't) consider it to be metal (any more than nu-metal is metal... or Metallica heh), I just figure it ought to be discussed elsewhere. No need to get all up in arms and create a ten page drama over it... if you disagree with me, discuss it here anyway, I'm not a mod.


On with the show!

Violent and scary is not what it takes to be HEAVY. For me, it's down-tuned guitar and bass that turns my insides into jelly. You know- Heavy.

And yeah, with my speakers Elephant Tree rattles stuff off the shelves. IN the house next door

Listen to the tracks in my long metalcore post above. After that you will have no choice but to acknowledge metalcore as a legitimate metal genre.

 

[Vigrith]

  Same goes to you. Listen to those tracks I shared. (All of them.) Metalcore is far more diverse than you seem to realize.
 
Regardless, whether a band is metal and whether you like a band have nothing to do with one another.

 
I agree, and I am familiar with every band you mentioned on your previous post. I understand the idea you're trying to convey and I do like some of Lamb of God's songs, same goes for Heaven Shall Burn (I think a lot of their stuff is less metalcore than it is heavy/extreme metal however), seen them both live opening for bands I like more and had a good time. The others I care very little for but I think there's no point going into detail as for why.
 
As said, I understand I'm being relatively narrow minded and that I'm generalizing far more than I should when discussing the subject but as you said it's irrelevant to whether or not it actually is "metal" or not. I find labelling within music to be pretty much moot point more often than not, if I HAD to say something regarding that I'd say I find most Metalcore to be closer to hardcore genres than metal ones - just my opinion, irrelevant as I know it is, as by definition metalcore most definitely is metal. I wasn't trying to question whether or not it is, was more of a "food for thought/discussion" sort of thing, I'm new to the thread and I honestly have no idea what it really is about but I figured some debate doesn't hurt.
 

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I agree, and I am familiar with every band you mentioned on your previous post. I understand the idea you're trying to convey and I do like some of Lamb of God's songs, same goes for Heaven Shall Burn (I think a lot of their stuff is less metalcore than it is heavy/extreme metal however), seen them both live opening for bands I like more and had a good time. The others I care very little for but I think there's no point going into detail as for why.
 
As said, I understand I'm being relatively narrow minded and that I'm generalizing far more than I should when discussing the subject but as you said it's irrelevant to whether or not it actually is "metal" or not. I find labelling within music to be pretty much moot point more often than not, if I HAD to say something regarding that I'd say I find most Metalcore to be closer to hardcore genres than metal ones - just my opinion, irrelevant as I know it is, as by definition metalcore most definitely is metal. I wasn't trying to question whether or not it is, was more of a "food for thought/discussion" sort of thing, I'm new to the thread and I honestly have no idea what it really is about but I figured some debate doesn't hurt.

 
No worries. I like most metal and most music in general too, though some others in this thread have less broad tastes.
 
It's interesting that you're already familiar with all those bands. I guess you've heard those particular tracks then.
 
I will also admit that some of them are too close to hardcore punk to be universally considered metal. Case in point:
 
on metal-archives.com: Heaven Shall Burn, Lamb Of God, Living Sacrifice
not on metal-archives.com: Converge, The Dillinger Escape Plan, ERRA, Today Is The Day, Zao
 
I have no idea why the powers that be on Metal Archives don't accept Zao. I mean, they're more metal than at least half of the metal bands out there! But much of their material has a strong hardcore influence, so I suppose that's why.

 

[Vigrith]

 
No worries. I like most metal and most music in general too, though some others in this thread have less broad tastes.
 
It's interesting that you're already familiar with all those bands. I guess you've heard those particular tracks then.
 
I will also admit that some of them are too close to hardcore punk to be universally considered metal. Case in point:
 
on metal-archives.com: Heaven Shall Burn, Lamb Of God, Living Sacrifice
not on metal-archives.com: Converge, The Dillinger Escape Plan, ERRA, Today Is The Day, Zao
 
I have no idea why the powers that be on Metal Archives don't accept Zao. I mean, they're more metal than at least half of the metal bands out there! But much of their material has a strong hardcore influence, so I suppose that's why.

 
I wasn't trying to imply I'd heard all of those tracks, most I had but some I hadn't, particularly the ones by Today Is the Day and Living Sacrifice (in the process of listening to those now, I get easily side tracked so it's taking me a while). I just listen to a lot of music and I used to have a ton of free time to research so chances are I'm familiar with most bands, at least within metal.
 
Zao should easily qualify as metal personally even though it's not really my cup of tea, I just don't enjoy the hardcore influence really. I find metal-archives to be so obsolete that I've not been there in years though, mostly because of how silly I find labelling - labels are only useful when I'm trying to look for bands that sound similar to x or y, otherwise they are of no real purpose.
 
I've grown picky when it comes to metal music unfortunately, a lot of death, extreme and black bands I used to really enjoy back in the day don't really sound pleasant to my ears any more - there's plenty out there I still love of course, even within the heavier genres, I'm accepting and respect any and all bands that are deserving however.
 
I'm all about concept albums.
 

 

 

[swspiers]

 
Same goes to you. Listen to those tracks I shared. (All of them.) Metalcore is far more diverse than you seem to realize.

Regardless, whether a band is metal and whether you like a band have nothing to do with one another.

I agree, and I am familiar with every band you mentioned on your previous post. I understand the idea you're trying to convey and I do like some of Lamb of God's songs, same goes for Heaven Shall Burn (I think a lot of their stuff is less metalcore than it is heavy/extreme metal however), seen them both live opening for bands I like more and had a good time. The others I care very little for but I think there's no point going into detail as for why.

As said, I understand I'm being relatively narrow minded and that I'm generalizing far more than I should when discussing the subject but as you said it's irrelevant to whether or not it actually is "metal" or not. I find labelling within music to be pretty much moot point more often than not, if I HAD to say something regarding that I'd say I find most Metalcore to be closer to hardcore genres than metal ones - just my opinion, irrelevant as I know it is, as by definition metalcore most definitely is metal. I wasn't trying to question whether or not it is, was more of a "food for thought/discussion" sort of thing, I'm new to the thread and I honestly have no idea what it really is about but I figured some debate doesn't hurt.

Dude. That video rocked. I generally avoid videos. But that...that was fun!

 

[Vigrith]

Dude. That video rocked. I generally avoid videos. But that...that was fun!

 
I love Devin, he's an idiot and he's proud of it - that's one of my favourite videos and Deconstruction is an amazing album as a whole. I tend to dislike videos myself, I never link over just the song unless I think it to be a worthwhile watch.
 

 
This one's good too LOL

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I wasn't trying to imply I'd heard all of those tracks, most I had but some I hadn't, particularly the ones by Today Is the Day and Living Sacrifice (in the process of listening to those now, I get easily side tracked so it's taking me a while). I just listen to a lot of music and I used to have a ton of free time to research so chances are I'm familiar with most bands, at least within metal.
 
Zao should easily qualify as metal personally even though it's not really my cup of tea, I just don't enjoy the hardcore influence really. I find metal-archives to be so obsolete that I've not been there in years though, mostly because of how silly I find labelling - labels are only useful when I'm trying to look for bands that sound similar to x or y, otherwise they are of no real purpose.
 
I've grown picky when it comes to metal music unfortunately, a lot of death, extreme and black bands I used to really enjoy back in the day don't really sound pleasant to my ears any more - there's plenty out there I still love of course, even within the heavier genres, I'm accepting and respect any and all bands that are deserving however.
 
I'm all about concept albums.

 
Zao was the band that got me into extreme music back in like 1999.
 
In what way is Metal Archives obsolete? I haven't found another site with a metal database that is nearly as comprehensive. I'm a Veteran member there. (Sort of a mini-moderator who can edit most parts of the site.) Wikipedia labels things too; doesn't make it obsolete.
 
I bought both of those Burzum albums.
 
Here are two cool concept albums (about alien abduction and cults, respectively) by progressive/power metal band Evergrey.
 


 
Speaking of Evergrey, their new album comes out next month.

 

[swspiers]

Dude. That video rocked. I generally avoid videos. But that...that was fun!

I love Devin, he's an idiot and he's proud of it - that's one of my favourite videos and Deconstruction is an amazing album as a whole. I tend to dislike videos myself, I never link over just the song unless I think it to be a worthwhile watch.




This one's good too LOL

I L...L...LLLOVE metal!

I flipping forgot how FUN that guy can be. Thanks again!!!

 

[Vigrith]

 
Zao was the band that got me into extreme music back in like 1999.
 
In what way is Metal Archives obsolete? I haven't found another site with a metal database that is nearly as comprehensive. I'm a Veteran member there. (Sort of a mini-moderator who can edit most parts of the site.) Wikipedia labels things too; doesn't make it obsolete.
 
I bought both of those Burzum albums.
 
Here are two cool concept albums by progressive/power metal band Evergrey, about alien abduction and cults, respectively.

 
I personally have no real use for metal-archives nowadays hence my comment (which was rash, admittedly), no disrespect meant of course, I know the site's worth for other people. Funnily enough, when my wife was like 19, years ago, she worked with a band back home and that band is in MA, it's the only place on the internet that references her stay in it (black metal-esque, hardly known at all).
 
Those are my favourite Burzum albums and I respect Varg for how far he's come. Looking (listening) back to his older albums is strange nowadays but his influence is undeniable.
 
I didn't know of Evergrey until like 2004/5 when The Inner Circle came out - Touch of Blessing was my favourite song for a long time after that and I still like it very much. Eagerly awaiting the release of The Storm Within!
 

I L...L...LLLOVE metal!

I flipping forgot how FUN that guy can be. Thanks again!!!

 
My pleasure, he's such a goofy person, he's one of my favourite people (outside of music too).
 

 
It's so clear to see the love he has for what he does. It's rare to see that kind of genuine happiness through music by a performer nowadays in my opinion. (who wouldn't look happy next to Anneke, she's wonderful)
 
https://twitter.com/dvntownsend/status/13049872955
 

 
One of us, one of us!

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I personally have no real use for metal-archives nowadays hence my comment (which was rash, admittedly), no disrespect meant of course, I know the site's worth for other people. Funnily enough, when my wife was like 19, years ago, she worked with a band back home and that band is in MA, it's the only place on the internet that references her stay in it (black metal-esque, hardly known at all).

 
Yeah...obsolete means practically no one uses it anymore; not that a mere individual doesn't use it.
 
Care to link me to that band? I know tons of underground bands and have so many crazy stories.
 
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Wormtongue/84590
 
When I lived in Florida, I came across this one-man band and talked to him from time to time. For a few months after that, I lived near Richmond, Virginia (grew up on the west side of Virginia as well) and, by sheer coincidence, met him in person at a grocery store! I noticed a guy wearing an Opeth shirt and chatted with him. He told me about his band...I mentioned how I used to run a small music distro with former dreams of turning it into a record label...and at the same time we realized that we already knew each other! If I recall, we may have even discussed the possibility of releasing his music on that label. As far as that goes, now I just want to have a digital music store someday.

 

[Vigrith]

 
Yeah...obsolete means practically no one uses it anymore; not that a mere individual doesn't use it.
 
Care to link me to that band? I know tons of underground bands and have so many crazy stories.
 
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Wormtongue/84590
 
When I lived in Florida, I came across this one-man band and talked to him from time to time. For a few months after that, I lived near Richmond, Virginia (grew up on the west side of Virginia as well) and, by sheer coincidence, met him in person at a grocery store! I noticed a guy wearing an Opeth shirt and chatted with him. He told me about his band...I mentioned how I used to run a small music distro with former dreams of turning it into a record label...and at the same time we realized that we already knew each other! If I recall, we may have even discussed the possibility of releasing his music on that label. As far as that goes, now I just want to have a digital music store someday.

 
That is a crazy story indeed! I've only met a few artists and been lucky as they've all been super nice and fun to be around, Devin mentioned in my prev posts being one of them.
 
Apologies for the use of the word "obsolete", you're correct of course, English isn't my native language which is absolutely not an excuse as I'm a translator professionally but it's pushing 3am here and my mind wanders off and certain exact meanings slip away as the clock ticks on. That's my bad, I should've re-read what I said and worded it differently if nothing else.
 
Having a digital music store is a fun idea, I personally have less of a desire to be involved in music directly like that but I can see the appeal.
 
Hoping Gentle Storm (or Ayreon) come out with a new album some time next year, they're my favourite project right now. The wife and I flew to the Netherlands to see The Theater Equation be played out September last year and will be attending Gentle Storm's show at Melkweg in Amsterdam in December later this year again.
 

 

[Music Alchemist]

 
So no link for that underground band you mentioned?
 
Edit: Thanks for the link via PM.