[Maxvla]

The topology of the MKVI is not suited to doing this glitch39. I emailed David and asked him and he said it was possible but not recommended. I've been told this by a couple people I asked to make a similar adapter as well after they saw the design.

By the by, I emailed David today and asked about the power of the 1/4 output and he replied that it was approximately half of the 'balanced' power, which is what I expected. Still at only half power that still leaves it at 2.5W per channel @ 120ohms. Still on the fence on the updated model... or just buy another single ended amp.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hz_joe /img/forum/go_quote.gif So ! I only say you know nothing but imagination on this Topology !

I know what a phase splitter is.

Quote:

Psudo balance even not balance in output impedance but sure improve sound quality ,more power ................

I didn't say anything about sound quality. But if higher output impedance improves sound quality, that's fine. I was only speaking about the technical aspects.

se

 

[glitch39]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxvla /img/forum/go_quote.gif The topology of the MKVI is not suited to doing this glitch39.

I disagree. open the bottom of a VI+ and see how the SE inputs and outputs for the front and rear are derived.

 

[Maxvla]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glitch39 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I disagree. open the bottom of a VI+ and see how the SE inputs and outputs for the front and rear are derived.

You may well be justified, but I'm going to side with the manufacturer and 2 MoTs on this one. If it works for you, great. I'm not going to risk it myself.

Btw, I mailed your HD600 cable today (from Dae) so it should get there middle to late next week.

 

[Sebhelyesfarku]

Probably a very stoopid question: what if I take a source with (truly) balanced output and two identical normal single ended amp, wire L+ L- into one amp's L R, and R+ R- into the other's L R then from the output jacks they go directly to the headphones through balanced cables?

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebhelyesfarku /img/forum/go_quote.gif Probably a very stoopid question: what if I take a source with (truly) balanced output and two identical normal single ended amp, wire L+ L- into one amp's L R, and R+ R- into the other's L R then from the output jacks they go directly to the headphones through balanced cables?

Then you'd have two bridged amplifiers.

I'm not sure what else you're wanting to know.

se

 

[Sebhelyesfarku]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Then you'd have two bridged amplifiers. I'm not sure what else you're wanting to know. se

Thanks, so the only advantage would be the added power, nothing from the added benefits of true balancing?

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebhelyesfarku /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks, so the only advantage would be the added power, nothing from the added benefits of true balancing?

Well, it's not entirely "true balanced."

While the input impedances would be the same (i.e. R+ to ground and R- to ground) and technically "balanced" in that sense, the bridged inputs are not differential and therefore provide no common-mode rejection which is the whole purpose of balanced interfaces. So to that end I wouldn't refer to the inputs as balanced, but rather bridged.

The outputs however could rightly be called balanced as all that's required there is balanced impedances.

se

 

[Hz_joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, it's not entirely "true balanced." While the input impedances would be the same (i.e. R+ to ground and R- to ground) and technically "balanced" in that sense, the bridged inputs are not differential and therefore provide no common-mode rejection which is the whole purpose of balanced interfaces. So to that end I wouldn't refer to the inputs as balanced, but rather bridged. The outputs however could rightly be called balanced as all that's required there is balanced impedances. se

Sure It is not true full balance amplifiers. It don't has benifite of balance input. But it is no difference from a True balance output due to even true balance output can not improve S/N ratio. Jade balance mode output can improve sound quality is easy to justify with no question. Output impedance balance or not balance is same for a headphone. Headphone line can not catch listenable noise no matter it balance or unbalance. Jade balance mode is free of charge. It is 2 diffgerence Phase output + Psudo balance.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hz_joe /img/forum/go_quote.gif Jade balance mode output can improve sound quality is easy to justify with no question.

Again, I've said nothing about sound quality. Sound quality is a subjective assessment and there's nothing to argue. I'm only speaking to technical issues.

Quote:

Output impedance balance or not balance is same for a headphone. Headphone line can not catch listenable noise no matter it balance or unbalance.

I agree.

Quote:

Jade balance mode is free of charge. It is 2 diffgerence Phase output + Psudo balance.

No, it doesn't have two different phase output (polarity would be the more appropriate term by the way).

That's an illusion.

You only have two different polarities if you look at the plate output and the cathode output separately relative to ground. But there is no ground at the output. The output is the single polarity, differential voltage between the plate output and the cathode output and that's all that the headphone sees or knows about in terms of output voltage.

And given the same output voltage, the only difference the headphone sees between single ended output and the phase splitter output is that it's being driven by a higher impedance in the phase splitter output.

That's because in single ended mode, the output impedance is just the output impedance coming off the plate. In phase splitter output, the cathode's output impedance gets added to the plate's output impedance.

se

 

[Hz_joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Again, I've said nothing about sound quality. Sound quality is a subjective assessment and there's nothing to argue. I'm only speaking to technical issues. I agree. No, it doesn't have two different phase output (polarity would be the more appropriate term by the way). That's an illusion. You only have two different polarities if you look at the plate output and the cathode output separately relative to ground. But there is no ground at the output. The output is the single polarity, differential voltage between the plate output and the cathode output and that's all that the headphone sees or knows about in terms of output voltage. And given the same output voltage, the only difference the headphone sees between single ended output and the phase splitter output is that it's being driven by a higher impedance in the phase splitter output. That's because in single ended mode, the output impedance is just the output impedance coming off the plate. In phase splitter output, the cathode's output impedance gets added to the plate's output impedance. se

I don't agree it. True balance output also no need reference to ground anymore. Do you mean it also 2 polarity ? Only Jade users or someone build base on Jade topology know it. Too much of imagination is mean nothing.
I can tell you Jade in balance mode voltage is double at high impedance.

 

[Hz_joe]

In phase splitter output, the cathode's output impedance gets added to the plate's output impedance.
& Vic versa
In phase splitter output, the Plate output impedance gets added to the Cathode output impedance.
+ impedance = K + C
- impedance = C + K

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hz_joe /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't agree it. True balance output also no need reference to ground anymore. Do you mean it also 2 polarity ?

As far as any headphone is concerned, it is just one polarity.

Quote:

I can tell you Jade in balance mode voltage is double at high impedance.

The voltage may be higher than single ended, but it's still just one polarity.

se

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hz_joe /img/forum/go_quote.gif In phase splitter output, the cathode's output impedance gets added to the plate's output impedance. & Vic versa In phase splitter output, the Plate output impedance gets added to the Cathode output impedance. + impedance = K + C - impedance = C + K

That's incorrect.

In phase splitter mode, the output impedance, Zout, is simply Zk + Zc.

In single ended mode, the output impedance will just be Zk.

se

 

[Hz_joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's incorrect. In phase splitter mode, the output impedance, Zout, is simply Zk + Zc. In single ended mode, the output impedance will just be Zk. se

It is base on your theory !