Introducing Lotoo PAW Gold
Feb 26, 2017 at 8:52 AM Post #3,196 of 4,766
I am pairing Visionears(VE)6X1 with my PAW gold...
 
I have build up my system just now.
 
For outside:
LPG
VE6X1
A lot of cables....
Toxic, Effect audio, PWaudio, Hisound...
 

 
At home:
LPG
Mass kobo 404
HD800s
 

 
 
 
Really enjoy LPG !
 
Feb 26, 2017 at 9:05 AM Post #3,197 of 4,766
I am pairing Visionears(VE)6X1 with my PAW gold...

I have build up my system just now.

For outside:
LPG
VE6X1
A lot of cables....
Toxic, Effect audio, PWaudio, Hisound...



At home:
LPG
Mass kobo 404
HD800s



Really enjoy LPG !


Hey fellow mass kobo 404 owner!
You owe yourself to try double helix cables too (if you haven't already).

Sorry if this has been addressed already, but does anyone happen to know whether or not Lotoo has plans for a PAW Gold successor?
 
Feb 26, 2017 at 9:44 AM Post #3,198 of 4,766
Once again I have nothing against them. Never heard them and no opinion on the tech involved. I am just saying, based on the picture, for an iem, they seem thick, not very convenient, and the finish on the sockets is not very neat. So I am not sure what you point is sorry.

 
I think I should have begun my post by saying something much more like "I agree with you regarding their appearance and perceived ergonomics.  They are like that for specific reasons, and here are those reasons".  
Most of what was in my post probably could have been just as (un)understandable as a stand-alone post.  That said, here are the points I was trying to make, or thought I was making, more clearly stated (or at least I hope they come out that way).  
 
Portable gear, cabling included, has very different physical/size/handling constraints than home gear does.  I know that's obvious, certainly when baldly stated like that, but sometimes the obvious needs to be stated out loud in order to make a case for certain other cliams, which may be less obvious.  What I have in mind here are considerations like:
 
How to power a device- having to use a battery vs having approximately 2000 watts of ac power from the wall sockets to work with.  Having multiple operating  voltages for different blocks or stages in the gear, where you have much more space in the chassis for home gear than portable.
 
For digital stuff, e.g., having Terabytes vs. Gigabytes for storage, and at lower prices -all other things equal, small costs way more $$.
 
For cables,being able to use materials that may be stiff and bulky in order to maintaiin consistent geometry and proper spacing throughout the length of the cable, and to be able to use larger conductors  in order to exectue a design properly And, having large enough connectors in order to fit those conductiors into vs, having tiny connectors, which almost mandate more fragile constructions, because of their size constraints....
 
 
On the more business side of things, it seems to me like the bulk of the headphone/iem-specific cable providers are either relatively new to the scene, or are (almost) exclusively limited to the headphone/iem ccable categories.  Most of them are cottage businesses, and their wares are very similar to each other, brand to brand, as they are sourcing much of the same "parts", and building very similar designs.  None of this is by way of criticism, simply a matter of fact.  Companies like Cardas, Nordost, Audioquest, Kimber and, of course, Wireworld, the topic here, are long-established cable producers, that have offered ranges of "speaker-system-based" cables for years.  While they don't agree with each other regarding the best way to make a cable, they do each apply very consistent design principles across their cable lines.  Some have applied these designs to headphones, and not just by chaning out connectors on their prexisting interconnects or speaker cables, but by designing and having manufactured cabling specifically for headphones.  Wireworld is the first to apply this to oiems as well, but they have not done extensive marketing for those cables yet.  
 
At the end of the day, I think all this adds up to the typical trade-offs to be made kind of situation we run into in all aspects of life.  Being an audiophile/gear-head/music-lover already puts us in the minority ("Hey, my phone already plays music and movies, why do I need a stereo system anyway-it would sound the same-right?")   I've got cables from the usualy suspects on Head-Fi for my iems, and I have some Wireworld cables for them as well.  The WWs sound better, but are less convenient to use so far.  Perhaps they can up their game without compromising sonic performance.  Similarly, I think my Aurender Flow plus 11.6 Win10 notebook plus Jriver sounds better than my DAPs, but it sure is a pita to carry around, especially if I wanted to use it to listen to music while walking, or by shoving the components into a huge-pocketed vest or such-like.  Gotta choose- 
 
Mim, hope that makes it more clear- in any case I was not being critical of you, nor do I think you took it that way.  
 
Feb 26, 2017 at 9:58 AM Post #3,200 of 4,766
No I was fine, just trying to understand thanks for the message. Not being a huge cable believer, I value ergonomics and looks quite a lot. I am interested in these because the message for transparency makes sense for me in a cable, rather than when people say it improves this or adds that.

 
Cool!  I am glad I was able to do a better job explaining- maybe it's the difference between the last post I make before going to bed, vs the first post I make after waking up from a decent night's sleep and having already had some coffee.  
 
I think the best cables "sound better" by allowing the gear to work at its optimal level, and when a person likes the resulting sound produced by that specific system.  People often argue about, e.g.,  the "sound of power cables", when it's really about whether the cable is altering the sound of the component it is powering, or simply letting it be what it was designed to be.  I think the Wireworld cables do not "sound", I think they get out of the way and, as-such, are quite resolving of the sonic signatures of the source and headphones/iems.  I think that's what a cable should do, but am not averse to cables that flavor the sound in obvious, specific ways.  People have used cables as filters and band-aids for many years.  Long-term, that never ends well.
 
Feb 27, 2017 at 12:30 PM Post #3,204 of 4,766
What is the thing with the Diana edition? Is it really even more powerful (at the expanse of battery life) or is it only the 256Gb SD card...?

 
DIANA edition of LPG (coincidentally, DIANA is a new planar magnetic release from Abyss) is collaboration between Abyss team (@Joe Skubinski) and Lotoo to optimize PAW Gold firmware.  It wasn't too clear to me either when it was first announced.  I think many, myself including, thought it was a change related to both fw and hw.  I only had a brief listening at CanJam NYC, wish I would spend more time with it, but apparently Abyss guys figured out a way to unlock and optimize the performance of LPG to increase output power (to drive more demanding headphones, planar magnetic, etc), and yet it's still quite usable with C/IEMs like the the original LPG.  What's crazy, during my brief listening session at CJ with Zeus XRA, I actually heard a slightly reduced background hissing.  Not saying it was gone, and need to take into consideration the noise on the floor, but it was less in comparison to my original LPG.
 
@HiFiGuy528 : Mike, when I tested/reviewed W80 and used it paired up with LPG, there was a noticeable hissing (turn the volume down to zero, hit play, though with volume up it's not that bad).  That's expected, we are talking about 8-BA iem with 5ohm impedance.  But I'm curious how is it in your setup with DIANA LPG?  Btw, I regret not making it beyond Cayin room at CanJam to stop by Woo-Audio to say hi
biggrin.gif
  Hopefully next year!
 
Feb 27, 2017 at 6:21 PM Post #3,206 of 4,766
   
DIANA edition of LPG (coincidentally, DIANA is a new planar magnetic release from Abyss) is collaboration between Abyss team (@Joe Skubinski) and Lotoo to optimize PAW Gold firmware.  It wasn't too clear to me either when it was first announced.  I think many, myself including, thought it was a change related to both fw and hw.  I only had a brief listening at CanJam NYC, wish I would spend more time with it, but apparently Abyss guys figured out a way to unlock and optimize the performance of LPG to increase output power (to drive more demanding headphones, planar magnetic, etc), and yet it's still quite usable with C/IEMs like the the original LPG.  What's crazy, during my brief listening session at CJ with Zeus XRA, I actually heard a slightly reduced background hissing.  Not saying it was gone, and need to take into consideration the noise on the floor, but it was less in comparison to my original LPG.
 
@HiFiGuy528 : Mike, when I tested/reviewed W80 and used it paired up with LPG, there was a noticeable hissing (turn the volume down to zero, hit play, though with volume up it's not that bad).  That's expected, we are talking about 8-BA iem with 5ohm impedance.  But I'm curious how is it in your setup with DIANA LPG?  Btw, I regret not making it beyond Cayin room at CanJam to stop by Woo-Audio to say hi
biggrin.gif
  Hopefully next year!

 
The Diana adds on demand digital gain increase of +6 db by way of the firmware with otherwise the exact same hardware. This is not an increase in output power, anymore than the gain increase feature on VLC Media Player increases output power. It is gain, i.e. volume.
 
If I am wrong, please show me the evidence.
 
Feb 27, 2017 at 8:05 PM Post #3,208 of 4,766
The Diana adds on demand digital gain increase of +6 db by way of the firmware with otherwise the exact same hardware. This is not an increase in output power, anymore than the gain increase feature on VLC Media Player increases output power. It is gain, i.e. volume.

If I am wrong, please show me the evidence.

How do you increase the digital gau without increasing the power?
 
Feb 28, 2017 at 1:46 AM Post #3,209 of 4,766
   
The Diana adds on demand digital gain increase of +6 db by way of the firmware with otherwise the exact same hardware. This is not an increase in output power, anymore than the gain increase feature on VLC Media Player increases output power. It is gain, i.e. volume.
 
If I am wrong, please show me the evidence.

 
Never looked into it, but it doesn't seem worthwhile to release a whole different product with the volume just 6db higher.
 
Feb 28, 2017 at 2:18 AM Post #3,210 of 4,766
How do you increase the digital gau without increasing the power?

 
Any amplifier will put out a certain number of watts into a specific load (ohms). That is s a function of the hardware. That is its power output.
 
Yet volume is often adjusted in the digital domain. Examples:
1. The volume control on the LPG
2. Certain high-end DACs with digital volume controls
3. Different releases of the same album. (The remastered versions are often quite a bit louder. Re-releases of songs on "best of" collections sometimes are too. Does that mean that the power of your amp has increased accordingly?)
4. VLC Media Player for Windows (best in class for watching videos) which allows you to listen to the soundtrack of any video at up to 130% of the standard volume relative to whatever soundcard you are using
5. ...and many more...
 
In each case they are re-interpreting the digital bits to increase the amplitude of the analog waveform. Your amp is still putting out the same power, i.e. watts into load. This is not a minor distinction.
 
   
Never looked into it, but it doesn't seem worthwhile to release a whole different product with the volume just 6db higher.

 
Yep. I agree, although it is a "version" rather than a whole new product. Anyway that is what they did. 
 

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