[flinkenick]

Review of the Labkable Pandora It is an outstanding cable, and quite beautiful I might add.
 
http://theheadphonelist.com/labkable-pandora/

 

[Kerouac]

  Review of the Labkable Pandora It is an outstanding cable, and quite beautiful I might add.
 
http://theheadphonelist.com/labkable-pandora/

This seems to be a great (both looks and sq) cable!
Oh man...if I only had the money / budget

 

[proedros]

  Review of the Labkable Pandora It is an outstanding cable, and quite beautiful I might add.
 
http://theheadphonelist.com/labkable-pandora/

 
excellent review as always , but man you are crazy 

 , i mean - 1300$ for a cable ?

damn 

 
great review still.
 
ps : i just got whiplash twag v3 (8-con) , i need to do some more listening but it looks like this cable gave the kiss of life to my EE Athena (which sounded very mediocre  with every other cable i tried)

i have left the cable burn in now for 40 hours non-stop (@SACD-Man aka Craig from whiplash audio told me that 150-300 of burn-in bring even moreimprovement so i will leave it for another 100-150 hours) and
 
a)i can detect a discernible improvement from when i got the cable and
 
b) athena finally sounds like a TOTL ciem 

 
 
 
i am definitely becoming a whiplash cable customer , 2/2 great cables so far (twagv3 and hybrid v3)

 

[flinkenick]

I'm just gonna go ahead and selectively read this 

 

 
excellent review as always ,
 
great review.

Thanks buddy, how kind of you!
 

ps : i just got whiplash twag v3 (8-con) , i need to do some more listening but it looks like this cable gave the kiss of life to my EE Athena (which sounded very mediocre  with every other cable i tried)

Nice man, please share a pic and some impressions of the cable. I think I'll also be getting a V3 at some point in a few weeks, though not the fancy 8-braid.

 

[proedros]

  I'm just gonna go ahead and selectively read this 

 
Thanks buddy, how kind of you!
 
Nice man, please share a pic and some impressions of the cable. I think I'll also be getting a V3 at some point in a few weeks, though not the fancy 8-braid.

 
here is a pic
 
as for initial impressions i am really impressed (currently burned in for 70 hours) so far

my athena sounded blurry (not veiled) and disjointed (i could sense a huge gap in the middle of the sonic landscape, if you get what i mean) with the other copper/hybrid cables i have , zero synergy imho

and to be honest i did not like them at all until the twagv3 arrival - in fact i was very seriously thinking of selling them
 
the twag really changed everything and transformed them into TOTL purchase - the sound is tight and full, there is clarity and transparency and very good separation - and the annoying blurriness has vanished 

 
i will also do some comparison with my beloved NT-6 , first impression that strikes me is that athena sounds way more vast-sounding and effortess than NT6 (which i love 100%)
 
both ciems are keepers , so all is good 

 
i will be posting more impressions in the next days but consider me a happy camper 

 
i would suggest you go for the 8-con , knowing how much a cable master you are the 8-con is the one to get
 
 
pm @SACD-Man  ,he was extra helpful and i am sure you can work something out , beneficial for both of you 

 
 
 
have a happy 2017 and maybe someday soon i can visit your ciem shrine in uber-lovely Amsterdam 

 
 

 

[flinkenick]

Glad it worked out with Athena Always welcome.

 

[ChrisSC]

There was some good lively cable discussion in the Empire Ears forum until the fun police had to show up and shut it down (to be fair, it was OT), so hope that we can continue it here.
 
If I start with the premise that the sole purpose of a cable is to act as a conduit between input and speaker, and we want that signal path to be  as clean/efficient as possible, don't we have to reach the conclusion that the best cable would only be made of the highest purity silver available, since its more conducive than copper and a lot more conducive than gold?
 
I'm trying to separate the science from the fluff with cables. I understand the value of aesthetics and the amount of hours in labor some of the higher quality ones take to create as reasons for extremely high prices, but am trying to wrap my head around if the sound quality can really vary that much, as a cable's only real job is to get out of the way.
 
Anyone have any thoughts/theories?

 

[twister6]

  There was some good lively cable discussion in the Empire Ears forum until the fun police had to show up and shut it down (to be fair, it was OT), so hope that we can continue it here.
 
If I start with the premise that the sole purpose of a cable is to act as a conduit between input and speaker, and we want that signal path to be  as clean/efficient as possible, don't we have to reach the conclusion that the best cable would only be made of the highest purity silver available, since its more conducive than copper and a lot more conducive than gold?
 
I'm trying to separate the science from the fluff with cables. I understand the value of aesthetics and the amount of hours in labor some of the higher quality ones take to create as reasons for extremely high prices, but am trying to wrap my head around if the sound quality can really vary that much, as a cable's only real job is to get out of the way.
 
Anyone have any thoughts/theories?

 
Different cable manufacturers have their secret "cooking" formula

 of mixing and matching different materials.  Plating the wire, as I mentioned in EE thread, is the most common technique.  Blending different metals is another technique, but a lot more expensive.  Different proportions of that mixing or plating with material other than silver adds some coloration, I guess?  Gold is very common, but has less conductivity than silver and copper.  This is beyond my comprehension, and sometimes it makes me wonder if some of it is actually trial'n'error by manufacturers.
 
I don't know how you can engineer the sound by predicting exactly which material and how to mix it.  Wire "skin effect" is pure physics (electric signal travels on the surface), thus silver plating makes sense to me.  Using Litz wires, very thin wires twisted together also makes sense because every SPC wire will have signal traveling on the surface and combining many thin wires increases the "surface" area.  Insulation of signal from the ground wires also makes sense, you don't want a cross-coupling (ground noise getting into the signal path).  But when it comes to the material and how its being selected and mixed, I'm puzzled.  Just like I'm still scratching my head how a pure copper PWA 1960 cable sounds better than any other pure copper cable I have tested before.

 

[tim0chan]

Different cable manufacturers have their secret "cooking" formula  of mixing and matching different materials.  Plating the wire, as I mentioned in EE thread, is the most common technique.  Blending different metals is another technique, but a lot more expensive.  Different proportions of that mixing or plating with material other than silver adds some coloration, I guess?  Gold is very common, but has less conductivity than silver and copper.  This is beyond my comprehension, and sometimes it makes me wonder if some of it is actually trial'n'error by manufacturers.

I don't know how you can engineer the sound by predicting exactly which material and how to mix it.  Wire "skin effect" is pure physics (electric signal travels on the surface), thus silver plating makes sense to me.  Using Litz wires, very thin wires twisted together also makes sense because every SPC wire will have signal traveling on the surface and combining many thin wires increases the "surface" area.  Insulation of signal from the ground wires also makes sense, you don't want a cross-coupling (ground noise getting into the signal path).  But when it comes to the material and how its being selected and mixed, I'm puzzled.  Just like I'm still scratching my head how a pure copper PWA 1960 cable sounds better than any other pure copper cable I have tested before.

The answer lies in the geometry of the cable itself. When all metals cool, they form crystals. How the cable sounds depends on the shape of the crystals.

 

[lookingforIEMs]

The answer lies in the geometry of the cable itself. When all metals cool, they form crystals. How the cable sounds depends on the shape of the crystals.

That sounds like some evidence that can finally point the cable industry to the right direction. Where did you get this piece of information from?

 

[twister6]

 

Different cable manufacturers have their secret "cooking" formula

 of mixing and matching different materials.  Plating the wire, as I mentioned in EE thread, is the most common technique.  Blending different metals is another technique, but a lot more expensive.  Different proportions of that mixing or plating with material other than silver adds some coloration, I guess?  Gold is very common, but has less conductivity than silver and copper.  This is beyond my comprehension, and sometimes it makes me wonder if some of it is actually trial'n'error by manufacturers.

I don't know how you can engineer the sound by predicting exactly which material and how to mix it.  Wire "skin effect" is pure physics (electric signal travels on the surface), thus silver plating makes sense to me.  Using Litz wires, very thin wires twisted together also makes sense because every SPC wire will have signal traveling on the surface and combining many thin wires increases the "surface" area.  Insulation of signal from the ground wires also makes sense, you don't want a cross-coupling (ground noise getting into the signal path).  But when it comes to the material and how its being selected and mixed, I'm puzzled.  Just like I'm still scratching my head how a pure copper PWA 1960 cable sounds better than any other pure copper cable I have tested before.

The answer lies in the geometry of the cable itself. When all metals cool, they form crystals. How the cable sounds depends on the shape of the crystals.

 
But that's all part of manufacturing process, and I was under impression majority are using the same UPOCC (Ultra-Pure Ohno Continuous Casting).  So, there shouldn't be too much variation in manufacturing of the wires itself?

 

[WCDchee]

But that's all part of manufacturing process, and I was under impression majority are using the same UPOCC (Ultra-Pure Ohno Continuous Casting).  So, there shouldn't be too much variation in manufacturing of the wires itself?

That's what I find with cables, to be honest I am not convinced that the approach to the tuning of cables is as scientific as manufacturers claim it to be. I believe in cables for sure but I am inclined to believe that a lot of it is trial and error. Sure there are probably some concepts that hold true but otherwise, I think a lot of it is based on trial and error.

Also, what you said is true, if they're all made the same way they should sound the same. Yet somehow it isn't quite true. Some copper cables sound bright, some silver cables sound warm, I can't explain that either, I'm no expert haha.

 

[Rei87]

The answer lies in the geometry of the cable itself. When all metals cool, they form crystals. How the cable sounds depends on the shape of the crystals.

Interesting that the topic of crystal structures within cables was mentioned. A couple of days back me and my mates were discussing cable brands that did not source cables from the big two manufacturers, and Crystal Cable came up. As you would have it, much of their metallurgy revolves around manipulating this aspect of the cable's design build. 

Skepticism aside, their cables are one of the most, if not the most transparent cable I've heard till date, even when compared against giants like the Plussound Silver gold, PW 1960 and so on. I really wish to one day lay my hands on one of their diamond reference grade interconnects.

http://www.crystalcable.com/cables/monocrystal/

 

[fzman]

Cable discussions always involve two considerations/topics - performance/design  and price.  Here's my rant on aspects of both:
 
I'm not much of a mulit-quote kind of guy, but I have lots to say here.  There are several factors that determine the "sound" of a cable.  The geometry, the metalurgy, the insulation material, and the connectors and termination techniques among them (just in case I am forgetting something here).  In other words the recipe AND the ingredients both matter.
 
There is also a question as to the goal of the cable-maker; are they trying to get neutrality, i.e., signal in = signal out, or are they trying to get "good sound" based on their specific aesthetic sensibilities? How are the cables tested?  Where are they made? How are the prices determined? Where do the materials come from? -- My understanding is that there are very few sources for REAL Ohno cast copper, and lots of sources for fakes, just to take one example.  
 
One way to tell that they are meeting their design goals is to look at the line of cables they produce.  For example, Audioquest cables are designed with specific criteria and manipulate specific variables to achieve a specific kind of sound- their cables bear a strong sonic family resemblance to each other.  As do cables from, among others, Nordost, Kimber, Cardas, and Wireworld.  By contrast, there are some speaker companies that produce ranges of speakers, each of which sounds different than the others - one of which may be a reviewer's favorite- seems like THEY (the company) is just guessing and got lucky-almost like the Chimp that starts typing Shakespeare by random chance......
 
From the customer's perspective, how long iwll it take to get the cable?  Do you prepay and wait?  What happens if you change your mind - just don't like the sound, ergonomics, changed speakers and need diffrent length of connectors? What happens if it breaks?  People often ridicule the big cable makers like Audioquest, Nordost, etc.  But they actually have their wares in stock, can get them to you quickly, and will take care of you through your dealer very quickly.  Some make their cables in the USA, in a real factory.  Kimber braids its own cables on braiding machines that they designed- the Axios required new machines and they designed and built them.  You can get your cable in about one week (depending on shipping time to your location). They are very good about after-sale support, and have different people managing the business activities and building cables- Costs money, but the results speak for themselves.
 
Wow, guess I got too much sleep last night, and no hangover since I don't even drink.

 

[ChrisSC]

Good stuff!
 
Considering the opinions shared, I'm wrestling with the question of how can a cable engineer isolate and manipulate variables like treble, bass, soundstage, etc. through the use of different metals, litz braids, etc.? As someone who knows nothing about electrical engineering​, my understanding is that a cable can only be degrees of conducive- less or more.
 
It seems that if a cable is dirtier (i.e., mixed with gold, composed of a less pure version of the metal, or otherwise not as conducive as pure silver), there might be a veil on the sound, or the impedance might possibly be lower as the sound has to work harder to get through the path. I don't understand how a cable can actually EQ the traits, beyond this. Also, wouldn't the effects show up in graphs?