[eke2k6]

Well they have all been clinically proven.  When I see clinically proven results of the headphone equivalent to Naproxen, I will buy it.  As the average consumer without time to collect and study 10 products, that's all I'm asking for.

It's taken hundreds of years to understand drug-receptor reactions, and we're still not close to understanding everything. There are drugs on the market whose mechanisms if actions are unknown. Heck, quinolone wasn't officially proven until a few years ago, despite being used for thousands of years.

Graphs won't show everything, and those very graphs are designed based on subjective interpretations of "flat". At the beginning of the year, DF was the most accurate, now the OW curve is all the rage. Even within those graphs are secrets that have yet to be unlocked.

When you start to value "accuracy" over enjoyment, it's time to step away from the hobby.

 

[jmsaxon69]

Where is the "Unsubscribe" button?

 

[Inks]

Lol if the science backing of what is flat is subjective, now I know why people don't understand FR. DF still stands by the way, one must understand the protocol of how it came about, OW basically just makes easier to see that a downsloaping DF slope is what works within new methods of listening. If anything the OW backs the DF which is the ISO standard still, since the 80s not last year....LOL


Blind studies within the speaker realm reveal users prefer accurate, I wouldn't be surprise if it were the same with headphones, matter of fact it seems to follow the same trend though the science is still limited. Thing is, people read too much into things and have false expectations and it crumbed the whole thing. Etymotics are flat, must mostly in just the midrange and lower treble, arguably the addiem is more flat, though the latter has distortion issues. All iems compromise, those top tier iems are accurate, some coloration is inevitable that includes Etymotics

 

[eke2k6]

Lol if the science backing of what is flat is subjective, now I know why people don't understand FR. DF still stands by the way, one must understand the protocol of how it came about, OW basically just makes easier to see that a downsloaping DF slope is what works within new methods of listening. If anything the OW backs the DF which is the ISO standard still, since the 80s not last year....LOL

I was about to type up a long response on my phone. Then I noticed the condescending "lol"s. you're not worth the effort. I'll reply when I have a keyboard.

 

[Theta Alpha 1]

Quote:

It's taken hundreds of years to understand drug-receptor reactions, and we're still not close to understanding everything. There are drugs on the market whose mechanisms if actions are unknown. Heck, quinolone wasn't officially proven until a few years ago, despite being used for thousands of years.

 
We can easily study Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Phosphorous and Sulphur, the six chemical elements which form into chemical compounds such as Aspirin, C9H8O4.
 
You're telling me sound is an ethereal invisible dust which escapes our analyses.  I think it's air.
 
Quote:

When you start to value "accuracy" over enjoyment, it's time to step away from the hobby.

 
The highest accuracy, highest resolution, highest speed, lowest distortion, lowest phase shift, and so forth, is the most profound and neurally active experience, by nature the highest bandwidth of information transferred.
 
If the RE-600 is only a Picasso of sound by nature of the interesting sounding shapes, thus measurement is not needed, then I have my answers to the equation and needn't look into this product.  Thanks!

 

[tigon_ridge]

Quote:

Enjoy your Juju tea.

 
??? unintelligible
 
Quote:

 
The ER-4B will have slightly better sound-stage than the HE-400 in binaural recordings, since the frequency response is more suited for that application.  Thus, sound-stage is in the frequency response.  CSD graphs are in the order of 1ms to 5ms, that's 1/1000 of a second, I'm sure it's entertaining to measure, but I haven't seen the documentation for whether it's humanly perceivable.

"Sound-stage is in the frequency response." Only partially true. You can bring certain frequencies more forward or farther back by changing FR, indeed. However, you can't give an IEM the soundstage of a headphone (at least not currently). This, of course, is only with respect with stereo recording. I don't have enough experience with binaural recordings to say much about it in terms of FR. One only has to listen to the SM3 and look at its graph and understand that decay does make a big difference. No documentation or "scientific evidence" required for something so obvious.

 

[Inks]

It's not too obvious if indeed there is no backing behind it, who knows how youre reading that SM3 graph. Alpha is right and as it pertains to the RE400 and RE600, even the time domains are matching, I'm sure Rin can mail you all the data..

Soundstage width is not measurable as its mostly physical, but depth and most importantly, imaging is FR dependent.

Now, this can go and on, once the RE600 listening gets done in the tour, well see the bigger picture .

 

[nehcrow]

I lol'd hard at the pseudoscience in this thread. Most profound and neurally active experience? LOL
Determining what IEM hits the ear in the most pleasant manner is subjective by nature

 

[munchzilla]

what frequencies have to be higher/lower in order for imaging to be the best? it's a bit confusing if a perceived flat FR is not going to give you the best imaging, but I assume this is not the case as the HD800 is not flat and has some of the best imaging I've heard... although a lot of the STAX are just as good, but those I've heard have measured more towards an upwards slope compared to the flat in the case of the Olive-Welti curve.
 
I am a bit lost here to be honest...
 
that said, the RE-600 is to me not flat but it does so much right. for such intimate presentation that IEM's do, I'm not sure if I would like flat even with the OW curve. but I might need more experience perhaps.

 

[gnarlsagan]

I lol'd hard at the pseudoscience in this thread. Most profound and neurally active experience? LOL
Determining what IEM hits the ear in the most pleasant manner is subjective by nature

+1

 

[Inks]

Quote:

I lol'd hard at the pseudoscience in this thread. Most profound and neurally active experience? LOL
Determining what IEM hits the ear in the most pleasant manner is subjective by nature

He' beyond that, he's trying to explain factors which will be preferred, we all know sound is subjective, but there's certainly a pattern. Wide bandwidth does give the more profound sound as no information between the human ear's range is missing.

 

[gnarlsagan]

He' beyond that, he's trying to explain factors which will be preferred, we all know sound is subjective, but there's certainly a pattern. Wide bandwidth does give the more profound sound as no information between the human ear's range is missing.

I see what you're trying to say but I think profound is definitely the wrong word. "Accurate" is a better description I think.

It's important to acknowledge the progress that's been made in headphone accuracy targets, but it's equally important not to overstate the findings.

That said I still hypothesize that there isn't enough sonic difference between the re400 and re600 to warrant the price increase. A better case could be made for aesthetic reasons. The results of the tour will be very interesting.

 

[Inks]

Yup, there was just a semantic issue

 

[proedros]

if an image is 1000 words

then

a person's experience with an iem is 1000 graphs
 
.

 

[nehcrow]

if an image is 1000 words


then


a person's experience with an iem is 1000 graphs

 
.

Lol I hope that's a joke