[tinyman392]

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I know the difference between neutral [perceived flat] and completely flat. And yeah, that makes sense. I know that Ety isn't completely flat. I don't think I've ever heard a completely flat headphone, and apparently, unlike speakers, perfectly flat headphones sound pretty terrible. But this is all hearsay. 

 
Actually, the ER4B (hard to find nowadays) is actually supposed to be completely flat (neutral) while the ER4P/S and HF series dips the upper highs by 5 dB for recorded music.  The EtyKids are actually closer to true neutral than the HF5 is IMO Both roll off the bass a bit much though (EtyKids more than the HF5).

 

[Origin89]

Quote:

 
You sure you're talking about Ety??? RE-400 I'd describe as on the warmer side of neutral... Etys on the other hand I'd describe on the brighter side of neutral. They still have a good amount of bass, but they definitely have more treble. But I still think they lack subbass impact, and I still say Ety lacks a certain energy in the bass...

 
Ah, he was talking about Ety? I thought it was about the 400... The Etys are much colder and analytical than the 400s.
 
Edit: I went back and read more, and saw he was talking about the Ety. My laziness has been put back into check. 

 

[Nankai]

Difference between ER4P, ER4S and ER4B is only about impedance (They share same drivers, housing and cable).
 
RE600 and RE400 only share same housing, they have different driver: different diaphragm, different coil and different cable. It is not properly to use etymotic as an example to talk RE600 and Re400. It took us 4 month to develop RE400. For RE600, we spent about one year and two month. 

 

[klfl]

Not trying to be off topic but the difference between er4s and er4p is only impedance. However the er4b also has a small capacitor on the cable. That is why people can turn 4p into 4s by adding adaptor but this is not the case with the 4b.

 

[Theta Alpha 1]

Quote:

I still fail to understand why every so-called audiophile doesn't just get a pair of ER-4B, ER-4P or ER-4S and be over and done with it. Instead, they get things like Stax, Sennheiser, or Audeze…and even a few of those who have those terribly coloured cans seem to appreciate IEMs such as the "abominations" known as (FAD's) Piano Fortes! It's got to be the evil Beats effect and the spread of what is known these days as "The Age Of Da Bass", I say!

 
I have a Clip+ and ER-4B for portable use, I will buy a Stax or Piano whatever as soon as I'm shown evidence they are more transparent, detail retrieving, neutral, tonally intact, or anything else relating to fidelity of the studio recording.  The theory that humans like colouration and distortion in luxurious packages is rather convincing, however I don't want to listen to the "artistic license" of a product which makes a Fazioli sound like a Kawai, and smoke cigars calling it "high-end", simply in reference to the fact it achieves making the music sound different / interesting.
 
The Astell&Kern AK120 as an example, at least they show a case that it is higher fidelity than a Clip+ http://www.astellnkern.com/eng/htm/feature/02_feature_120.asp, however it seems they make no case for that anyone can actually hear 50ps jitter, -128dB crosstalk, and so forth.
 
Quote:

Not trying to be off topic but the difference between er4s and er4p is only impedance. However the er4b also has a small capacitor on the cable. That is why people can turn 4p into 4s by adding adaptor but this is not the case with the 4b.

 
I think there are some third-party cables with a capacitor which can emulate the ER-4B.  Resistance / impedance exists in the amplifier, the cable and the driver.
 
We should assume you can't turn the RE-600 into the RE-400 with a 16 ohm resistor on the cable.

 

[Muzeick]

Difference between ER4P, ER4S and ER4B is only about impedance (They share same drivers, housing and cable).

It only took 4 months to design the re-400? So presumably you had already been developing the re-600

RE600 and RE400 only share same housing, they have different driver: different diaphragm, different coil and different cable. It is not properly to use etymotic as an example to talk RE600 and Re400. It took us 4 month to develop RE400. For RE600, we spent about one year and two month. 

It only took 4 months to design the re-400? I was under the impression it was a lot longer than that. Presumably then you had already been developing the re-600 for some time before then. In which case, was the 400 an attempt to produce a budget version of the 600 to recoup some of the costs?

Regardless, can you comment on why the tip selection with the re-400 is so strange and doesn't provide for many different sizes of ears? If you are already releasing new packs of tips with the model, can I get a pack of those for free please, and can you explain what the best tips to use are? In all seriousness, I haven't found a single pair of tips yet that work well with them.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

 
Quote:

I still fail to understand why every so-called audiophile doesn't just get a pair of ER-4B, ER-4P or ER-4S and be over and done with it. Instead, they get things like Stax, Sennheiser, or Audeze…and even a few of those who have those terribly coloured cans seem to appreciate IEMs such as the "abominations" known as (FAD's) Piano Fortes! It's got to be the evil Beats effect and the spread of what is known these days as "The Age Of Da Bass", I say!

 
 
I have a Clip+ and ER-4B for portable use, I will buy a Stax or Piano whatever as soon as I'm shown evidence they are more transparent, detail retrieving, neutral, tonally intact, or anything else relating to fidelity of the studio recording.

 
Cool — nothing beats the Etys. Still fail to understand why every so-called audiophile doesn't get a pair of Etys and is over and done with it.

 

[Theta Alpha 1]

It's not made out of Hokkaido cherry trees or crushed pianos, with rose-gold platinum dust on top, that's why.

 

[music_4321]

Is that what the HD800, HD600, K3003 & K701 are made of?

 

[Theta Alpha 1]

If Yeats had anything to say about it, I think he would say they were made out of crushed dreams and aspirations.
 
I even found a $30.00 IEM with an included frequency response graph, and it actually uses Silver cables!  It seems none of the products you mentioned include these features.  Prices aside it doesn't appear like there is any scientific reason to buy the K3003, let alone the RE-600, in favour of this IEM or the Etymotic ER-4.  When I see it I'll pay.
 

 

[tigon_ridge]

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It's not made out of Hokkaido cherry trees or crushed pianos, with rose-gold platinum dust on top, that's why.

Do a sine sweep with the ER-4s. You'll find that there'll be some seriously crazy spikes, that will challenge the notion that they have the last word when it comes to accuracy and neutrality. I've found spikes on every headphone I've listened to with sine sweeps, so the Etys aren't the only victims. Fortunately, every spike in FR (among other things) are fixable with a good EQ program. Some aspect that aren't fixable about the Etys, though, is their thin hollow sound that lacks texture/body/dimensionality, and flat soundstage. That just goes to show that frequency response is not the only factor in determining what "accurate" should sound like. My EQ'd ER4S sounds pretty good. My EQ'd RE-400 sounds even better. Both no longer sound painful due to yucky spikes.
 
One question may be: What if you can't use such an EQ? My advice: choose the IEM that has all the qualities you would want (e.g. imaging, resolution, liquidity/body, dynamics, etc...) with a FR that lacks major spikes, then use the more general EQ that comes with your DAP to tune it to your desire.
 
From my experience, the RE-400's spikes are less dramatic than those of the ER-4S or GR-07. Other than that, it's nearly impossible for me to listen to the latter two at louder than moderate volume without getting really fatigued.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

If Yeats had anything to say about it, I think he would say they were made out of crushed dreams and aspirations.
 
I even found a $30.00 IEM with an included frequency response graph, and it actually uses Silver cables!  It seems none of the products you mentioned include these features.
 

 
 
You can get a FR graph of every pair of Sennheiser HD800 ever made — here's the one for my pair:
 

 
 
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Theta Alpha 1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 Is there any scientific reason to buy the K3003 instead?

 
Yes, 3 scientific reasons:
 
a)  The K3003s look pretty classy,
b)  More and more hot babes start noticing you.
c)  When people learn how much the K3003s cost, they suddenly want to become your friends — and if it's a girl / woman, they even want to marry you.

 

[tigon_ridge]

Quote:

If Yeats had anything to say about it, I think he would say they were made out of crushed dreams and aspirations.
 
I even found a $30.00 IEM with an included frequency response graph, and it actually uses Silver cables!  It seems none of the products you mentioned include these features.  Prices aside it doesn't appear like there is any scientific reason to buy the K3003, let alone the RE-600, in favour of this IEM or the Etymotic ER-4.  When I see it I'll pay.
 

You're seriously comparing them based solely on FR measurement? Do you realize that two headphones can have nearly identical FR graphs can still sound starkly different?

 

[Theta Alpha 1]

Quote:

You're seriously comparing them based solely on FR measurement? Do you realize that two headphones can have nearly identical FR graphs and still sound starkly different?

 
Like what.

 

[gnarlsagan]

You're seriously comparing them based solely on FR measurement? Do you realize that two headphones can have nearly identical FR graphs and still sound starkly different?

I think his point was that the FR graph being included is a feature, along with having silver cables.

Where are the spikes on the ER4S? I want to see if I can hear them. I didn't notice them last time I ran a sine sweep.