[d marc0]

Quote:

I still fail to understand why every so-called audiophile doesn't just get a pair of ER-4B, ER-4P or ER-4S and be over and done with it. Instead, they get things like Stax, Sennheiser, or Audeze…and even a few of those who have those terribly coloured cans seem to appreciate IEMs such as the "abominations" known as (FAD's) Piano Fortes! It's got to be the evil Beats effect and the spread of what is known these days as "The Age Of Da Bass", I say!

 
How come you got the K3003 instead?

 

[vrln]

Glad to see the tip selection has been improved. Main flaw fixed!

If there are HiFiMAN guys reading this: any chance the new tips and case could be ordered separately? For a fee of course.

 

[kyuuketsuki]

Quote:

Glad to see the tip selection has been improved. Main flaw fixed!

If there are HiFiMAN guys reading this: any chance the new tips and case could be ordered separately? For a fee of course.

 
I can also tell you they switched out the rubber cable wrap with a clip.

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

 
How come you got the K3003 instead?

 
I don't know if you read Music's post the way he intended to.  He had a semi-sarcastic tone to that.  Basically he's stating the people do tend to go after something that diverges from neutral as the price ranges up.  In other words, the ER4s (regarded as being the most neutral) aren't the end-all IEM.  If it was, everyone would have an ER4 and be done with.  It's also an attack on Rin's blog for calling the FAD an abomination when many people on Head-Fi regard it well. 

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

 
Quote:

I still fail to understand why every so-called audiophile doesn't just get a pair of ER-4B, ER-4P or ER-4S and be over and done with it. Instead, they get things like Stax, Sennheiser, or Audeze…and even a few of those who have those terribly coloured cans seem to appreciate IEMs such as the "abominations" known as (FAD's) Piano Fortes! It's got to be the evil Beats effect and the spread of what is known these days as "The Age Of Da Bass", I say!

 
How come you got the K3003 instead?

 
Not sure what your question has to do with my post, but the K3003, personally, is the second best phone I've ever heard, the best one being the HD800 — one is portable, the other one isn't.

 

[brhfl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyuuketsuki /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I can also tell you they switched out the rubber cable wrap with a clip.

That's a shame. Well, I suppose more people will probably make use of a clip, but not I so... that's a (personal) shame. I also don't use the chin cinch doo-dads, so it bugs me that the RE's doesn't sit flush on the Y, but... so not worth quibbling over when you're listening to these!

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

 
I don't know if you read Music's post the way he intended to.  He had a semi-sarcastic tone to that.  Basically he's stating the people do tend to go after something that diverges from neutral as the price ranges up.  In other words, the ER4s (regarded as being the most neutral) aren't the end-all IEM.  If it was, everyone would have an ER4 and be done with.  It's also an attack on Rin's blog for calling the FAD an abomination when many people on Head-Fi regard it well. 

 
I don't believe Rin actually ever called the FAD Piano Fortes "abominations" — that was Inks. I believe Rin actually didn't find them as awful sonically as Inks did.

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

 
I don't believe Rin actually ever called the FAD Piano Fortes "abominations" — that was Inks. I believe Rin actually didn't find them as awful sonically as Inks did.

 
Oh, my bad (sorry about that Rin).  I remember someone calling them abominations.  It just goes to show that the interpretation of data isn't as objective as they claim they are.  They are as subjective as our subjective impressions are. 

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

That's a shame. Well, I suppose more people will probably make use of a clip, but not I so... that's a (personal) shame. I also don't use the chin cinch doo-dads, so it bugs me that the RE's doesn't sit flush on the Y, but... so not worth quibbling over when you're listening to these!

 
I actually do use the adjustable chin cinch when I wear the IEMs over my ears and have the cable running behind my back   The chin cinch becomes a head cinch

 

[Deni5]

Quote:

I still fail to understand why every so-called audiophile doesn't just get a pair of ER-4B, ER-4P or ER-4S and be over and done with it. Instead, they get things like Stax, Sennheiser, or Audeze…and even a few of those who have those terribly coloured cans seem to appreciate IEMs such as the "abominations" known as (FAD's) Piano Fortes! It's got to be the evil Beats effect and the spread of what is known these days as "The Age Of Da Bass", I say!

 
ER4 is almost perfect.
 
Pros:
Clean/tight/detailed bass
Great mids
Good treble
Reference level isolation
 
Cons:
If not fit correctly it sounds really bad
Lacks some sub bass
Somewhat hot treble
Soundstage
Difficult to proper fit
 
I would say the biggest flaw of it is the soundstage. I don't care that much about it, but in some music it does sound boring because of it. I think it has to do because you push it very far into the ear canal so the sound can't bounce around that much before reaching the eardrums. Still it is kinda cool that a 20+ year old IEM still holds its ground.
 
Regarding bass: Modern music relies a lot on it (bass and sub bass). This is why Sennheiser HD-650 was tuned the way it was I think to better suit the music of today. For me RE-400 has just the right amount of bass. It gives instruments weight without adding a lot of extra bass because that would be plain bad (where everything would sound bassy). I think there was an old Innerfidelity interview with Fang where he explained the importance of the bassport - how it would give an IEM a more 'speaker like' sound. To do the same with an BA based IEM you would have to use a longer stem (like in the ER4/Klipsh X10). Not sure why but it seems like bass response increases that way. Perhaps this is why the new BA based Shure uses a special canal that is 4 inches (!!) - that way they can reach subwoofer levels. Playing around with the bass port on the RE-400 does a lot to the sound signature so it has some crucial function.
 
Regarding treble: There was some initial reports that RE-600 in the early stages had sibilance. Some even found RE-400 to have some of it although mild. Haven't experienced this myself. And it seems like not many are experiencing it (not that many reports in this thread). I wonder a little if this has to do with the final signature it got. I read somewhere that a lot of music is mixed to have more treble as it ads to the enjoyment - but if you listen to it with very treble-happy IEM/headphones then it's not that enjoyable anymore - so if treble is toned down it would reach a more neutral level hence no sibilance (I think). Also saw a presentation/interview where it was stated that you could give it the signature you want by using EQ. That is one way of doing it. Personally I don't like having to rely on using EQ.
 
I wish Hifiman would release a RE-400 with a bit more treble keeping rest of the signature - that would make it even more balanced/perfected, something like in Sennheiser HD-800 I think, that is everything would even out. Even by giving the treble a push by modding I don't find it harsh. I wouldn't hesitate one moment to buy RE-400 TE (Treble Edition), would even pay more for it, if it would ever be released (because the driver they use is awesome) 
 
I like RE-400 as much as ER4S, if not more and it gets a lot more use.

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

 

 
You left out the fact that proper insertion with the Ety family is akin to passing kidney stones...every single time.
 
I admit that it can sound great at that level of insertion, but at what cost man. 

 

[Deni5]

Quote:

 
You left out the fact that proper insertion with the Ety family is akin to passing kidney stones...every single time.
 
I admit that it can sound great at that level of insertion, but at what cost man. 

Yes, you are correct. Ety triple flanges where to small for my ear canals so had to replace them with bigger Shure triple flanges, then it got a lot easier. But still it's a little to much of trial and error, not really my cup of tea. That is why they don't get much use even if I like them a lot.

 

[kyuuketsuki]

Personally, I think Ety sound is good, but not perfect. Naturally if that is what you are used to and you like the DF tuning, then all the more power to you. But the soundstage and the artificial sounding bass response kill Ety for me. (By artificial I mean that I feel no energy from Ety bass, it is accurate and fast but that isn't all that bass is about). I also find the treble a bit too sharp and fatiguing at times too. But that is just personal preference. I've heard that the RE-400s are based on the more modern OW reference curve, which seems to suit me more and still is perceptible as flat. Maybe I'll eventually upgrade to a better reference phone in the future, but I'm not really sure.
 
There aren't many BA phones that really nail that for me, but bass energy, whether it is flat, recessed or forward is important to me. And really for my money, the RE-400 is the closest to reference sound that I've heard that present it in a way that I like. I know there are better out there, but until I find it I'll stick to my RE-400s. (And probably wait until I get a decent home set up, for too long I've focused on portable)

 

[d marc0]

I don't know if you read Music's post the way he intended to.  He had a semi-sarcastic tone to that.  Basically he's stating the people do tend to go after something that diverges from neutral as the price ranges up.  In other words, the ER4s (regarded as being the most neutral) aren't the end-all IEM.  If it was, everyone would have an ER4 and be done with.  It's also an attack on Rin's blog for calling the FAD an abomination when many people on Head-Fi regard it well. 

Thanks for explaining. I really didn't get it at first... Good on ya!

 

[Deni5]

Quote:

I've heard that the RE-400s are based on the more modern OW reference curve, which seems to suit me more and still is perceptible as flat.

 
Wasn't the RE-400 released before OW released the paper? Hmm I'm not sure so don't know if they very actually based on the OW curve.
 
Anyway the first time I heard the RE-400 I said to myself this is what I have been seeking for for so long time, a sort of a game changer for me. It sounded very balanced to my ears except for treble and that is where its lacking when looking at the OW compensated graph of RE-400. This was also before I had seen any FR graphs or any other data of RE-400. This is why my first post on Head-fi was a review of RE-400, just wanted to get the word out how good they really are. I even prefer them a little to RE-272, but it's a very close call.