[dxanex]

Hell, some people even like them without EQ!

 

[nicholars]

  Hell, some people even like them without EQ!

 
Yep well in that case brilliant, but for people who like them but find the treble an issue....

 

[amigomatt]

   
Hmmm but the HE400 will absolutely destroy the Senn 598 or Koss when modded and EQ.... Those 2 headphones what you get out of the box is pretty much all you will ever get out of them, the HE400 when optimised are not even in the same league as those 2. The modulor pads on their own, although an improvement, still require EQ.... I have a feeling I am speaking to a brick wall here though judging from your post, you can be stubborn and insist they should sound great as they are... in which case you will probably end up selling them and stick with your 598.... or you can get them to work to their potential using EQ, up to you
 
To be honest I am getting bored of repeating myself and trying to justify EQ'ing these headphones to people who say "but they should be the purist form as the artist intended with minimal in the signal path blah blah blah blah" This is the last time I suggest it to anyone! If you want to remove the sibilance and have an excellent sounding pair of HE400, REMOVE THE PEAKS THAT CAUSE THE SIBILANCE. If you want high end sound with no modding then you are going to have to spend £700+ or you can EQ the HE400, entirely up to you. Unless you have unlimited money to spend on headphones then this is the best compromise you will get.

I'm not being stubborn, nicholars.  In fact, I haven't sold these cans, I'm persevering with them because I have some faith that pad modding might just do the trick for me.  Given the drastic improvement of the velours over the stock pleathers, I have faith enough to have spent another $60 on some of modulors pads.  You are hitting your head against a brick wall trying to persuade me to EQ though, but not out of artistic purism as you state.  We've had this conversation before and that's why I just said EQing wasn't convenient or even possible for me in the situations that I use these cans, because I knew you would just say what you always say, which you did.  I'll say what I said last time, I can't EQ when listening to my CDs and LPs through my home separates hi-fi system.  Effective eqing is also pretty impossible for me with my portable rig too.  I can only EQ through my PC, which I've experimented with and had good results from.  I wish you would understand that I'm not being stubborn or purist, it's just me dealing with a somewhat frustrating and disappointing purchase.  It feels like HifiMan have put that spike there on purpose to ensure we buy their higher tier cans from them!
 
Also, these don't destroy the HD598s in the way you say.  Have you heard the 598s?  It really isn't 'another league', as you put it.  In terms of soundstage and (yes, I'm saying this) midrange tonality, the Senns blow the Hifimans away.  Yes, technically, my HE-400s do many things better than the Senns, certainly in terms of dynamics, bass response and texture/separation (oh, and certainly treble extension - to a fault) but for lots of chamber music, small group instrumental and intimate vocal material, I much prefer the richness of the mids, vast soundstage and laid back liquid presentation of the 598s against my HE-400s.  It's a matter of taste, not numbers.  Why else would they spend so much more time on my head?  I have such a broad taste in music and I love having a collection of cans for different duties as I sure haven't found one that does all of them best (although the Yamaha HPH-200 are nearly there).

 

[nicholars]

For the genres you mentioned there they might be better, but technically I would say that the HE400 are in a different league to the 598.

 

[amigomatt]

  For the genres you mentioned there they might be better, but technically I would say that the HE400 are in a different league to the 598.

They are technically better, but there's something so lush, warm and attractive about the HD598s through a valve on certain material.  I mean, my tastes stretch out into death metal and industrial music.  The HE-400s absolutely astonish me with their vivid etching of sound with some of that stuff and the Senns are way too slow and polite to do those genres justice, but for late night, winding down chilling with supreme comforrt with a warm, laid back and honey-sweet delivery, I couldn't live without my 598s.
 
I really hope the pads I receive from modulor resolve some of the treble issues for me.  It's maybe not as bad for me as you might think.  It doesn't happen on everything, but when it does, it's an unnatural sheen thats laid over everthing except the bass instruments and when that information is present on the recording, the HifiMans amplify it and lend an unnaturalness which ruins things for me.  In that sense, I'd rather have the slightly more veiled and rolled off approach that the 598s give me, at the expense of detail and fine etching of treble frequencies.  If I could automatically apply the same subtle EQ to every scenario I use them in, they'd be keepers and my favourite cans.  If the pads do the trick, they'll be keepers too.  I really want them to be keepers, I really do! 

 

[jerg]

  They are technically better, but there's something so lush, warm and attractive about the HD598s through a valve on certain material.  I mean, my tastes stretch out into death metal and industrial music.  The HE-400s absolutely astonish me with their vivid etching of sound with some of that stuff and the Senns are way too slow and polite to do those genres justice, but for late night, winding down chilling with supreme comforrt with a warm, laid back and honey-sweet delivery, I couldn't live without my 598s.
 
I really hope the pads I receive from modulor resolve some of the treble issues for me.  It's maybe not as bad for me as you might think.  It doesn't happen on everything, but when it does, it's an unnatural sheen thats laid over everthing except the bass instruments and when that information is present on the recording, the HifiMans amplify it and lend an unnaturalness which ruins things for me.  In that sense, I'd rather have the slightly more veiled and rolled off approach that the 598s give me, at the expense of detail and fine etching of treble frequencies.  If I could automatically apply the same subtle EQ to every scenario I use them in, they'd be keepers and my favourite cans.  If the pads do the trick, they'll be keepers too.  I really want them to be keepers, I really do! 

Just sell everything and get a pair of HE500s then (would synergize even better with the modded pads you are about to receive). That or go for HD650 + really good amp.

 

[amigomatt]

  Just sell everything and get a pair of HE500s then (would synergize even better with the modded pads you are about to receive). That or go for HD650 + really good amp.

I'll be seriously considering the HE-500s if the pads don't work out for me.  Do they lack soundstage in a way that may disappoint me with large scale orchestral works, coming from the HD598 soundstage?  I may also consider some vintage Stax for the same sort of price.  I think I'm ultimately after neutrality, openness and realism.  I want a realistic portrayal of instruments.  I've thought lots about the HD650s (and 600s) too, but I fear they might be too slow for my broad listening tastes.  I need speed and clarity too.  I want it all!  In fact, I'd love a cross between the HE-400s and the HD598s.

 

[HeulynG]

I love my HE-500's I find it impossible to stop listening its such a lovely sound 

. Most agree 500's over >598

 

[amigomatt]

  I love my HE-500's I find it impossible to stop listening its such a lovely sound 

. Most agree 500's over >598

Thanks, my only worry is that some people think HE-400>HE-500.  I wouldn't want to make such a costly mistake!

 

[Thujone]

  I'll be seriously considering the HE-500s if the pads don't work out for me.  Do they lack soundstage in a way that may disappoint me with large scale orchestral works, coming from the HD598 soundstage?  I may also consider some vintage Stax for the same sort of price.  I think I'm ultimately after neutrality, openness and realism.  I want a realistic portrayal of instruments.  I've thought lots about the HD650s (and 600s) too, but I fear they might be too slow for my broad listening tastes.  I need speed and clarity too.  I want it all!  In fact, I'd love a cross between the HE-400s and the HD598s.

You need the HE-500's then. Never listened to the HD598, but I've spent a great deal of time with the HD580/600 and the HE-500 has a very similar signature. The HE-500 is ever so slightly less laid back, but with better speed/attack and more detail. Vocals are also noticeably more forward on the HE-500.
 
If you want soundstage though, HE-4.

 

[amigomatt]

  You need the HE-500's then. Never listened to the HD598, but I've spent a great deal of time with the HD580/600 and the HE-500 has a very similar signature. The HE-500 is ever so slightly less laid back, but with better speed/attack and more detail. Vocals are also noticeably more forward on the HE-500.
 
If you want soundstage though, HE-4.

Now, this sounds more like it, Thujone.  Do you have any issues with the 500s having a closed in soundstage?  How does it compare to the 400s on those terms?

 

[HeulynG]

I actually had the 400's first but i sold them to upgrade to 500's. The 500's for me are vastly more detailed and clear with better highs and mids. Soundstage is not massive but that's how i like it

 

[amigomatt]

  I actually had the 400's first but i sold them to upgrade to 500's. The 500's for me are vastly more detailed and clear with better highs and mids. Soundstage is not massive but that's how i like it

Thanks for the info, HeulynG. I appreciate any input on this!

 

[TommyNavara]

Can someone explain me how many revisions they have done and what and where was the harshness problem?

 

[Thujone]

  Now, this sounds more like it, Thujone.  Do you have any issues with the 500s having a closed in soundstage?  How does it compare to the 400s on those terms?

I finally got off my arse and contributed to the community by writing a comparison/review between the three headphones. For anyone who's interested, here it is. Be nice though, haha.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/692229/he-400-vs-he-500-vs-he-4-comparison