[spritzer]

The only stat that can do Iron Maiden justice is the SR-007, OTOH Megadeth sounds great on a number of stats

 

[catscratch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think they're the best thing since sliced bread for jpop. They only thing they simply refuse to is metal.

I think this is true more because metal is, as a rule, poorly produced. When I throw one of the very few examples of well-produced metal at the SR-404 (like Dream Theater's Awake or Bruce Dickinson's The Chemical Wedding) the results are quite nice. Not Grado caliber, but better than the Senns for sure.

I also think, if indeed I do, that 'stats can handle more genres well than dynamics. Only when you have something for which bass impact is a must (trance, (c)rap, and the like) do you start reaching for the DT770's. Also on the note of impact, I think dynamics handle certain large orchestral pieces better, since those massive 120dB crescendos have a lot more power on a headphone that has plenty of tactile feedback. Likewise, with some acoustic instruments, such as piano, where impact is part of the performance, 'stats can struggle.

 

[nothing101]

every time i listen to stat speakers and go back to my headphones which are dynamic (k501) the headphones sound so completely dead its not funny.

well i guess you cant compare a hundred dollar headphone to a speaker that costs im not sure how much

if i had to start again i would be all for stax.

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif The only stat that can do Iron Maiden justice is the SR-007, OTOH Megadeth sounds great on a number of stats

Sepultura and Rage are more my thing. I keep the A/250 around for stuff like that.


Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif Only when you have something for which bass impact is a must (trance, (c)rap, and the like) do you start reaching for the DT770's.

I must be the only person who has no issue with trance using electrostatics or something.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sepultura and Rage are more my thing. I keep the A/250 around for stuff like that.

That stuff is a bit too much for me.

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif That stuff is a bit too much for me.

I agree to a point, I'm not a huge metal fan.

 

[Konig]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wower /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I am kind of set on stax because I found a good distributor in Sapporo (Japan) and they beat any quote on the net I have found so far for Stax by 20-30%. I guess I was looking at the 303/404 to dip my feet in the stax pool.

isnt that the place where pricejapan got their stuff?

 

[Snacks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif It depends on the amp a lot. Dynamic speakers have their own physical weight to help keep them under control at low cycles, whereas electrostatics are pretty much a plastic bag covered in pencil lead. If the amp can't control the speakers right down to the lowest octaves then it'll get dicey. Both the HE60s and O2s do classical very nicely in a good system. Classical isn't really the 4070's forte. Of course, not everyone likes the characterisitic sound of 'stats. Same in the speaker world, too. Even the best designed audio gear isn't immune to matters of taste.

Which amp? There aren't many outside of KGSS/KGBH/ES-1 and now Woo, but which one will serve up the "stat" impact on which earspeaker?
On which stax or electrostat earspeaker, HE60/90, 303/404?

It would be nice to know...I'm more curious than anything else, because most classical, at least the kind that I have, lacks impact; it's more bass extension than impact. **Mind you, my setup isn't complete, so my conclusions should be taken with a few tablespoons of salt.**

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snacks /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which amp? There aren't many outside of KGSS/KGBH/ES-1 and now Woo, but which one will serve up the "stat" impact on which earspeaker?

There are also hundreds of thousands of other amps that can drive them by way of a transformer box. And ~10 DIY direct-drive 'stat amps whose creators were generous enough to post their schematics on the internet.

Power supply has a great effect on the resulting sound. This can be easily demonstraed by using one of the cheaper 'stat amps that run off a wallwart (252, HEV70, E/90) and trying different quality wallwarts, batteries, and bench supplies with them. It shouldn't cost more than a couple of hunded to setup such a test. I have yet to hear a single electrostatic headphone where PSU differences were not clearly audible.

Quote:

On which stax or electrostat earspeaker, HE60/90, 303/404?

Well, you can look at my profile to see what I have. Others with a different mix of headphones will have their own experiences to share.

Quote:

It would be nice to know...I'm more curious than anything else, because most classical, at least the kind that I have, lacks impact; it's more bass extension than impact. **Mind you, my setup isn't complete, so my conclusions should be taken with a few tablespoons of salt.**

Extention and impact a different things. It's the mid-bass that plays the biggest part in impact, and most modern headphones of all technology types can do 50Hz.

Everyone's comments should be taken with salt. The fact that people come to a site such as this means that they know there is still room for improvement, no matter how far they've come.

 

[wower]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig /img/forum/go_quote.gif isnt that the place where pricejapan got their stuff?

I don't know much about pricejapan but I went and played around with currency converters to get a better idea (on comparable systems) on there site. Looking at their site, I will only save about 15% by buying here. I was looking at a store in Canada and it was around 30%. Big differences in price, thats for sure. I bet companies hate the internet. All this access to information can't be good for them.

I like impact with my classical music ala senn 650. But they are overpriced here. (But not as bad as grado; 12,500 YEN for sr60. I don't think so!)

P.S. I love how the thread has turned to Metal on stats. Not that I'm a fan, but its great.

 

[Snacks]

Which amp? There aren't many outside of KGSS/KGBH/ES-1 and now Woo, but which one will serve up the "stat" impact?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are also hundreds of thousands of other amps that can drive them by way of a transformer box. And ~10 DIY direct-drive 'stat amps whose creators were generous enough to post their schematics on the internet. Power supply has a great effect on the resulting sound. This can be easily demonstraed by using one of the cheaper 'stat amps that run off a wallwart (252, HEV70, E/90) and trying different quality wallwarts, batteries, and bench supplies with them. It shouldn't cost more than a couple of hunded to setup such a test. I have yet to hear a single electrostatic headphone where PSU differences were not clearly audible.

^^This is interesting to know...now I feel even more clueless.

, but it's a start...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, you can look at my profile to see what I have. Others with a different mix of headphones will have their own experiences to share.

"On which stax or electrostat earspeaker, HE60/90, 303/404?"

So based on what's listed in your profile:

Sennheiser HE60
Stax 4070
Stax Sigma Pro
Koss ESP/950
Stax SRX mk3
Stax SR50

Are all impactful sounding stats, right/wrong?
More than likely, impactful and storytelling in their own way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Extention and impact a different things. It's the mid-bass that plays the biggest part in impact, and most modern headphones of all technology types can do 50Hz.

This is also good to know... In reference to modern headphones and technology, you must be referring to all types of headphones, not just electrostats, correct?

Impact is definately more engaging that extension; however, a good mixture of both, IMO, is essential. Although, getting a clear idea is almost as diffult as getting a review or opinion on ______ <-- insert your subject here!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Everyone's comments should be taken with salt. The fact that people come to a site such as this means that they know there is still room for improvement, no matter how far they've come.

I wholeheartedly agree, but it sure is nice to hear how everyone's opinion can differ on any given headphone.

Let your own ears be the judge...that's what "you've" got to do, otherwise one could get really

.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif I also think, if indeed I do, that 'stats can handle more genres well than dynamics. Only when you have something for which bass impact is a must (trance, (c)rap, and the like) do you start reaching for the DT770's. Also on the note of impact, I think dynamics handle certain large orchestral pieces better, since those massive 120dB crescendos have a lot more power on a headphone that has plenty of tactile feedback. Likewise, with some acoustic instruments, such as piano, where impact is part of the performance, 'stats can struggle.

Well the DT770s aren't the benchmark of a dynamic headphone

But yeah, there is something about their different technologies that make them suited for different things. Although when they're properly sourced/amped, both dynamic and electrostats can do a lot of genres.

I didn't catch Milkpowder's last comment when this thread was first around: yep, I can say with my source and amp, the HD650 is getting some mighty fine PRAT and is world class for classical music

Impact is a very tricky thing....and I think this is probably just an inherently difficult thing to master in an electrostat (excluding the big leagues that I haven't heard: HE90, HE60, OII). I think one of the reasons I hear more body out of my HD650 vs the STAX Lambda I heard, was that the 650 was designed to have a slight tapering off in it's midrange (especially at 8khz). This is so that it can follow the accoustics of an auditorium. Gives it plenty of soul, but it's far from transparent then. I believe a large part of impact has to do with variation in the FR. Carl mentioned that the Lamdas were porpously colored in the upper midrange to be studio monitors. So they definitely bring out more detail and are more transparent. It gives you a more upfront presentation: great for analytical monitoring or if you like being moved by having music right at you. Especially when it comes to symphonies, I just like the gestalt of a dynamic headphone (where you have massive swings in dynamics). If ever I do hear the Omega II or the HE90, then maybe I'll be wowed into electrostats. But right now with my sig, I don't have any upgraditis (although I am thinking about the Grado GS1000 for my vinyl rig

). Never ending this upgrade curse: be it dynamic or electrostatic!!

 

[Snacks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well the DT770s aren't the benchmark of a dynamic headphone But yeah, there is something about their different technologies that make them suited for different things.

For kicks, I've listened to the DBs with classical and I kid you not they actually sounded pretty darn good. Although, the DBs a little bit of a stretch compared to it's predecessor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Although when they're properly sourced/amped, both dynamic and electrostats can do a lot of genres.

This is the main differentiator and cannot be stressed enough.
How they're (dynamic/stats) amped and the outside conditions are big contributing factors when it comes to reaching a conclusion about dynamics or electrostats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Impact is a very tricky thing....and I think this is probably just an inherently difficult thing to master in an electrostat (excluding the big leagues that I haven't heard: HE90, HE60, OII). I think one of the reasons I hear more body out of my HD650 vs the STAX Lambda I heard, was that the 650 was designed to have a slight tapering off in it's midrange (especially at 8khz). This is so that it can follow the accoustics of an auditorium. Gives it plenty of soul, but it's far from transparent then. I believe a large part of impact has to do with variation in the FR. Carl mentioned that the Lamdas were porpously colored in the upper midrange to be studio monitors. So they definitely bring out more detail and are more transparent. It gives you a more upfront presentation: great for analytical monitoring or if you like being moved by having music right at you. Especially when it comes to symphonies, I just like the gestalt of a dynamic headphone (where you have massive swings in dynamics). If ever I do hear the Omega II or the HE90, then maybe I'll be wowed into electrostats. But right now with my sig, I don't have any upgraditis (although I am thinking about the Grado GS1000 for my vinyl rig ). Never ending this upgrade curse: be it dynamic or electrostatic!!

Impact : Monitors

Of late those are the top two most confusing terms that I have encountered as of late...

Dave, no offense, but if you haven't heard all stats, how do you know that they, meaning all stats, with the exclusions noted above, cannot do impact? This must be a common knowledge (read: electrostats cannot do impact) thing of which I am not privy to?

Let us know how the GS1000 does with your vinyl; on paper, er "monitor" they sound like a suitable pair. However, the same can be said with most all Grado's...how does your 325 do on vinyl?

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snacks /img/forum/go_quote.gif Dave, no offense, but if you haven't heard all stats, how do you know that they, meaning all stats, with the exclusions noted above, cannot do impact? This must be a common knowledge (read: electrostats cannot do impact) thing of which I am not privy to? Let us know how the GS1000 does with your vinyl; on paper, er "monitor" they sound like a suitable pair. However, the same can be said with most all Grado's...how does your 325 do on vinyl?

Read most stat threads, and that's what the criticism of them are (at least especially with Lambdas)...that they're transparent, but can lack impact. I haven't heard the $1K+ ones, so they may be different (in fact, at least HeadRoom's FRG of the STAX 007 has a tapering in the mids as well: IMHO, a good indication of how "impactful" a headphone might be).

I would like to hear the GS1000 because its FRG is very different then the 325i: which I'm hoping might help with vinyl. Currently, my 650s are the best for vinyl: vinyl seems to get nice extension and soundstage, but misses some crisp detail that's present on CD/SACD. With the 325, it gets more detail then the 650, but it doesn't have much extension: sounds very tin canish. Looking at the FRG of the GS1000 (I know, there's only so much you can infer from a FRG), but it seems to have lots of bass and treble extension, and not as much emphasis in just the upper middle frequencies as other Grados.

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif I must be the only person who has no issue with trance using electrostatics or something.

I have no problem with them for this purpose either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl It depends on the amp a lot. Dynamic speakers have their own physical weight to help keep them under control at low cycles, whereas electrostatics are pretty much a plastic bag covered in pencil lead. If the amp can't control the speakers right down to the lowest octaves then it'll get dicey.

I could not agree more. In my experimentation I have found that the amp has a much more obvious effect on the sound with an electrostatic headphone than with any dynamic I have yet heard. It really seems to me that when you buy an electrostatic headphone you are buying potential that could be realized in various ways and the amp you use will determine how much of that potential is achieved and in what way.