hd650 or hd800
Sep 11, 2010 at 7:58 PM Post #166 of 279
Acoustic music, well recorded, is easier to use for determining reproduction quality, and easier to discuss conceptually.  For artificually created music, from a multi-track pop or rock album to purely synthesized, the accuracy of reproduction cannot be assessed easily, but perhaps "quality" can.  In any case, accuracy isn't merely about "brighter" or "darker"... it has to be by finding a more revealing gestalt experience, more insight into the artists' intent, more startling of an illusion of space and texture.  There are moments that transend analysis and concepts, and you can just "get" on a holisitic level that something more advanced has been achieved.  Such as listening to the soundstage and extension of the HD800 vs HD650... it is clearly better in these respects, to anyone.  Doesn't mean that it is better in every respect, and that is a simple concept and a simple thing to hear... if you don't get lost in subjectivity.
 
In practice, the comparison experiments are very difficult to do rigorously and effectively.  No matter how clear the conceptual framework, the practice is much more complicated.  But that can make it more fun, such as discussing the various notes and noses of interesting wines... except that our senses are trained by "absolute" recognition of real sounds, whereas wines are purely about sensation of something without reference, not something intended to be reproduced.  
 
In any case, I hope I can hear some of your setups in which the HD800s don't have that band of brightness, assuming that they in fact don't.  Maybe it will open up a new purchase opportunity for me....
 
Sep 11, 2010 at 10:02 PM Post #167 of 279
Stoney wrote:
 
But in both cases, there are moments that transend analysis and concept and you can just get on a holisitic level that something more advanced has been achieved.
 
---Snip---
 
In practice, the comparison experiments are very difficult to do rigorously and effectively.  No matter how clear the conceptual framework, the practice is much more complicated.
 
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Oh good, and here I thought this was going be an easy "A."
 
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You know you're doing it right when you hear a boatload of violins hanging a long bow stroke out there and the word that comes to mind is; "sweeeeeeeeet."
 
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Sep 14, 2010 at 9:22 PM Post #168 of 279
After careful critique listening to the HD650 vs. HD800 I would have to say both are totally different.
 
The 650 are dark and veil and need to be silvered re-cable to loosen the dark sound. they allow one to listen to many genre and enjoy the dynamics of the various recording with out fatigue also very versatile allowing to be amp ss or tube without strain.
 
The 800 are airy, accurate, extremely large sound stage and probably one of the top five dynamic phone when balanced sourced properly.
 
Downsize of the 800: a bit on the bright/analytical side and require tubes to sound best.
 
Sep 14, 2010 at 10:14 PM Post #169 of 279
Are the HD800's as analytical as the W5000's?  If so I would love to hear them! I would hope that the HD800's do everything better then the HD650's, since the 650's to me seemed overly warm and boxy. Either way, they are both great headphones, can't go wrong I guess... 
 
Sep 14, 2010 at 10:17 PM Post #170 of 279


Quote:
Are the HD800's as analytical as the W5000's?  If so I would love to hear them! I would hope that the HD800's do everything better then the HD650's, since the 650's to me seemed overly warm and boxy. Either way, they are both great headphones, can't go wrong I guess... 


More so....especially at bass detail. Like none other in that regard. They are more comparable to the HD600s (which I preferred of the HD650s), but do everything better!
 
Sep 15, 2010 at 12:08 AM Post #171 of 279


Quote:
More so....especially at bass detail. Like none other in that regard. They are more comparable to the HD600s (which I preferred of the HD650s), but do everything better!


Impressive, would love to try out a pair one day... Loving the w5000/ha5000 pairing though! Though I am sure with right equipment the HD800 would be astonishing. One day, one day.... 
 
Sep 15, 2010 at 1:11 AM Post #172 of 279
Loving my 650s more and more each day. They are new and recabled, so to my ear, they're missing that "veil" that everyone talks about. They are (my definition of) neutral, smooth, and enjoyable to listen to. 
 
They don't impress me much, and the more I listen to them, the more I realize that's a good thing. They don't jump out and do something in its own special way, which to me says they're relatively uncolored. 
 
All of that being said, I think I'm glad I went with the 650 instead of the 800. I know I'm missing a lot of certain things, but I don't think I'd enjoy less (albeit "more detailed") bass than the 650s, and I'm not positive I have the setup to drive the 800s properly. 
 
Sep 15, 2010 at 8:13 PM Post #174 of 279


Quote:
Impressive, would love to try out a pair one day... Loving the w5000/ha5000 pairing though! Though I am sure with right equipment the HD800 would be astonishing. One day, one day.... 


Aren't there any Hifi audio shops nearby that you can give them a try? In Toronto, there's a few like Bay-Bloor Radio.
 
Sep 20, 2010 at 12:12 AM Post #175 of 279


Quote:
 
Downsize of the 800: a bit on the bright/analytical side and require tubes to sound best.


Although i use a tube amp on my 800s and 650s, and the 800s sound better on my higher end tube amp, the much cheaper SS amp I have is very "tubey" sounding and is actually warmer and sounds great with my 800s, maybe even gentler although not as transparent.  The SS is a v200 and the tube is a Zana Duex.
 
Sep 20, 2010 at 2:48 AM Post #176 of 279
The fact that the HD650s can compete with the HD800 in some capacity is a testament to how good they actually are, especially when you consider the astronomical price disparity between the two.
 
Sep 20, 2010 at 6:55 AM Post #177 of 279


Quote:
The fact that the HD650s can compete with the HD800 in some capacity is a testament to how good they actually are, especially when you consider the astronomical price disparity between the two.

 
Agreed.  Even then, I would still buy my HD800's.
 
 
Sep 20, 2010 at 4:48 PM Post #178 of 279
HD650's are the essence of mediocrity, with a generous amount of sloppy bass.
 
They do not compete with the HD800, it's like an ugly chipped club versus a katana.
 
HD800's are so good they make you cry a little tear at how bad they actually are.
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Sep 20, 2010 at 5:25 PM Post #179 of 279


Quote:
HD650's are the essence of mediocrity, with a generous amount of sloppy bass.
 
They do not compete with the HD800, it's like an ugly chipped club versus a katana.
 
HD800's are so good they make you cry a little tear at how bad they actually are.
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I couldn't disagree more on this.  
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