Gustard U12 USB Interface 8 Core XMOS chip
Mar 12, 2015 at 12:19 PM Post #931 of 3,700
  Can anybody tell whether it is possible to change latency with XMOS USB Audio driver (2.23.0) which comes with U12?
Copying TSUBAudioCpl.exe from WaveIO setup seems not to function.
For JPLAY, I need KS, which means I should stick to XMOS driver.


I use Jplay and can use either KS or WaveI/O ASIO.  Just go the 'Playing Via:' at the top and switch - then I do the same in  Foobar.
 
You can change latency in the TUSB Audio Control panel under: 'USB Streaming Mode' - it has a range of settings.  I'm using 'Safe' which is the second to highest latency.  I really don't care if I have a tiny delay in changing tracks of playlists - it's almost imperceptible.  But there are several low latency settings.  Low latency is especially important in Proaudio mixing software and hardware - not so much for audiophile playback.
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 12:22 PM Post #932 of 3,700
 
Too bad they don't make them anymore.  Does it help?
 
I use one of these APC® Back-UPS® BN600G for my PC - but didn't seem to help - in fact was a tiny step backward on the Gustard

Since i am a computer guy, we sell APC's to our customers. APC's have A LOT of high frequency sh.t in them, it's a sort of smps which we don't want in audio equipment.
 
The Belkin Pure AV is the best buck i ever spend, cost me about $500. It really does a very good job. I don't know the US models, they had a build-in battery.
The Brand "Monster" has some good models which aren't that expensive like IsoTek and others.
 
Picture of Belkin PF50

 
Mar 12, 2015 at 12:25 PM Post #933 of 3,700
Thank you for your suggestion.  I am testing JPALY 6 beta, and setting latency to minimum is suggested in some cases.  That is why I wanted to know how I could do this.
 
Quote:
 
I use Jplay and can use either KS or WaveI/O ASIO.  Just go the 'Playing Via:' at the top and switch - then I do the same in  Foobar.

 
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 12:31 PM Post #934 of 3,700

i am using it with JPlay Beta 6 also, 0.01s 700Hz, dualpc, audiopc in core, controlpc with gui. I don't remeber exactly how i configured the chodi driver, bnut it wasn't the lowest latency i configured. Still sounds amazing :)
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 12:36 PM Post #935 of 3,700
  Since i am a computer guy, we sell APC's to our customers. APC's have A LOT of high frequency sh.t in them, it's a sort of smps which we don't want in audio equipment.
 
The Belkin Pure AV is the best buck i ever spend, cost me about $500. It really does a very good job. I don't know the US models, they had a build-in battery.
The Brand "Monster" has some good models which aren't that expensive like IsoTek and others.
 
Picture of Belkin PF50


I use the APC as a UBS for the PC - we get occasional power outages here - so it just keeps the PC from crashing.  I have one on each of my 6 PCs.
 
I had a Monster Pro 2500 and use a Monster 1700 between the PC and the APC UBS.  They're pretty good.
 
For $500 I'd probably go for a Furutech or Shunyata.
 
Been think of stepping up to something sota down the road - and use it for the Gustard and my DAC between them and the RG 400Pro - a Audience Adept AR2 Teflon caps. http://www.audience-av.com/conditioners/
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 12:45 PM Post #936 of 3,700
 
 
Sorry, but i had to comment on this,,,,, 
 
It all has to do with how much one will invest in a product.
 
Like our Gustard U12, it's a very nice developed and build DDC which delivers outstanding SQ for the buck, and one can modify it with simple tools.
But, buying clocks and other stuff which costs 5 times as much as the U12 is as buying a VW Golf, strip it down and put a Porsche engine in it............
 
Just my 5 cents,

 
I can not agree more.
 
Regards,
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 1:24 PM Post #937 of 3,700
  i am using it with JPlay Beta 6 also, 0.01s 700Hz, dualpc, audiopc in core, controlpc with gui. I don't remeber exactly how i configured the chodi driver, bnut it wasn't the lowest latency i configured. Still sounds amazing :)


Thank you for your comment.  I am also testing JPLAY 6 beta 7a in dual PC mode like you.  With XMOS USB Audio driver 2.23.0, I can set up to 170Hz/0.01sec.  350Hz/0.01sec gave sound just for a few seconds.
Maybe I should switch to WaveIO ASIO.
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 1:45 PM Post #938 of 3,700
Latency is sometime misunderstood by folks.  It relates to the buffering used on the audio stream.  Large buffers are good in that they provide a reservoir of digital data for the CPU to process, this held in memory.  So if their is an interruption in the data flow for whatever reason the CPU processing of the bitstream will be unaffected.  As long as the buffer is large enough to continue feeding the CPU uninterpreted.  The issue with large buffers is the FIFO processing of the bitstream - with large buffers this can lead to lag in time between acting on the stream and it's processed effect - this is referred to as 'latency'.
 
For musicians using a MIDI keyboard - or a sound engineer altering a mix in real time - this latency is a nightmare.   Think if your car had a latency in the steering and brakes - if large it would make safe driving very difficult. 
 
For audiophiles who are just playing back a recorded bit stream - it's not such a big issue.  A bigger issue would be bit dropouts or interruptions.  You might experience a slight delay in changing a setting (like KS to ASIO, or ASIO to KS) or a sound track. 
 
Here's a good link to explain in greater detail
 
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan05/articles/pcmusician.htm
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 1:51 PM Post #939 of 3,700
   
Sorry for saying this Ginetto61, but it seems to me you haven't any clue about how analogue / digital stages perform on poor psu's.
A well developed and build linear psu will ALWAYS be the BASE of good analogue or digital audio equipment.
 
My 30yo diy mosfet class-A pré-amp (which i have build myself) has 5 seperate transformers and and all seperated regulaterstages with pi-filters.
I didn't develop that psu for fun, it's absolutely needed when you want the best SQ.
 
My first developed dac, build on CS4398, had all seperate powerstages, but sadly only one toroidial transformer with seperate windings.
Seperate transformers would take this dac to a much higher level, but there wasn't any room left in housing.
 
Also my diy mosfet class-A poweramp uses 2x 1000VA toroidal transformers with 160.000 uF Rifa / Roederstein caps, it's really not for fun that one build
a good psu for analogue equipment. It's a necessity when you want to deliver the best SQ.
 
Sorry, but i had to comment on this,,,,, 
 
It all has to do with how much one will invest in a product.
 
Like our Gustard U12, it's a very nice developed and build DDC which delivers outstanding SQ for the buck, and one can modify it with simple tools.
But, buying clocks and other stuff which costs 5 times as much as the U12 is as buying a VW Golf, strip it down and put a Porsche engine in it............
 
Just my 5 cents,

 
Hi and i see your points and i agree of course.  Also with analog the PS quality is very important.
But still i think much more with digital. I feel that digital is more delicate. The voltage fed to the clock and dac circuits must be perfect. No noise, no spikes. Nothing.
Because most analog circuits have some level of rejection of power supply noise.  
Unless they are without feedback i think.
In digital the quartz does not have a PSRR.  You feed it badly, it will work badly.
A high precision quartz with a bad PS is a waste. 
The only real problem (recharge cycles aside) i found with batteries is the impedance of the batteries.  
A good quality and high uF cap close to the circuit can cure this nicely.
The lack of dynamics i think it is due to this impedance not low enough as it should be.
But maybe i am wrong but this is an issue when the circuit draws current in a variable way.
I guess that a USB to SPDIF converter will draw a constant current (maybe i am wrong).
So the not very low impedance could be a lesser issue. 
But i have to listen.  
But going back to the U12 i would prefer, for instance, a EI type transformer with separated primary and secondary windings to be put outside the box and connected with a shielded umbilical to the U12.
Honestly i am saying this not because i am an expert but because i see the same solutions used by top designers like those in Audio Note
You do not see toroidals in AN dacs for instance
 

 
 
 
 
There is also the issue of the transformer mounted on the same pcb of the circuit (vibes) and some magnetic field from the transformer itself.

 
I wonder if the secondaries are wired in series or parallel.
I mean if a 9-0-9 VAC or a 0-9 VAC are needed.
I will open it in the weekend ... just to peep below the pcb.
Thanks again, gino 
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 2:43 PM Post #940 of 3,700
   
Hi and i see your points and i agree of course.  Also with analog the PS quality is very important.
But still i think much more with digital. I feel that digital is more delicate. The voltage fed to the clock and dac circuits must be perfect. No noise, no spikes. Nothing.
Because most analog circuits have some level of rejection of power supply noise.  
Unless they are without feedback i think.
In digital the quartz does not have a PSRR.  You feed it badly, it will work badly.
A high precision quartz with a bad PS is a waste. 
The only real problem (recharge cycles aside) i found with batteries is the impedance of the batteries.  
A good quality and high uF cap close to the circuit can cure this nicely.
The lack of dynamics i think it is due to this impedance not low enough as it should be.
But maybe i am wrong but this is an issue when the circuit draws current in a variable way.
I guess that a USB to SPDIF converter will draw a constant current (maybe i am wrong).
So the not very low impedance could be a lesser issue. 
But i have to listen.  
But going back to the U12 i would prefer, for instance, a EI type transformer with separated primary and secondary windings to be put outside the box and connected with a shielded umbilical to the U12.
Honestly i am saying this not because i am an expert but because i see the same solutions used by top designers like those in Audio Note
You do not see toroidals in AN dacs for instance
 

 
 
 
 
There is also the issue of the transformer mounted on the same pcb of the circuit (vibes) and some magnetic field from the transformer itself.

 
I wonder if the secondaries are wired in series or parallel.
I mean if a 9-0-9 VAC or a 0-9 VAC are needed.
I will open it in the weekend ... just to peep below the pcb.
Thanks again, gino 


On the pictures someone recently posted showed a different transformer that was marked 7v - have you cracked open your case?  I'm wondering which one you have.
 
I've heavily shielded my transformer top and sides with the 3M EMI shielding.  Didn't really notice difference.
 
I'm happy to see that the manufacturer on my DAC mod project did use separate r-core transformers as stock
But the PS filtering did need a lot of extra work - and it paid off very well.   I upgraded all the Elna's to Simlic II's, added a Mundorf dual M'lytic to replace some el-cheapo caps, replaced an important resistor with a Hammond Choke, and pretty much recaped all the filter caps with Nichicon Fine Golds, etc...and now with Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold/Oil coupling caps this baby is sounding amazing!  Rivaling my $7K APL DAC.

 
Mar 13, 2015 at 4:30 AM Post #941 of 3,700
Originally Posted by rb2013 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 

On the pictures someone recently posted showed a different transformer that was marked 7v - have you cracked open your case?  I'm wondering which one you have.
 
Hi i promise to do asap hopefully in the weekend
I am not that good with the camera but i will shot some pictures of course.
I think that the usb to digital conversion is really key for good sound and deserves a big attention.
 
I've heavily shielded my transformer top and sides with the 3M EMI shielding.  Didn't really notice difference.
 
Toroidals are known to have a low magnetic emission and for this are good.
If i had to use instead an EI i would place it a little far away from circuits.
But for me it is the isolation from the mains that is important.
Of course if you are lucky and have very clean mains the toroidals are just as fine as EI.
Not always it is the case ... for instance my mains are quite dirty.
 
I'm happy to see that the manufacturer on my DAC mod project did use separate r-core transformers as stock.
 
also these ones are just great at isolation of course
they have separated primary and secondary windings
great choice for isolation from mains noise
 
But the PS filtering did need a lot of extra work - and it paid off very well.  
I upgraded all the Elna's to Simlic II's, added a Mundorf dual M'lytic to replace some el-cheapo caps, replaced an important resistor with a Hammond Choke,
and pretty much recaped all the filter caps with Nichicon Fine Golds, etc...
and now with Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold/Oil coupling caps this baby is sounding amazing! 
Rivaling my $7K APL DAC. 
eek.gif

 
Now you get me curious a lot.  Is it a kit or what ?
I am getting crazy these days about dacs ... all these discussions on old multibit being much better sounding than current sigma delta dacs ...
Let me know something more maybe with PM just not go OT too much.
Thanks a lot indeed.
Regards,  gino
 

 
Mar 13, 2015 at 4:45 AM Post #942 of 3,700
 
Thank you for your comment.  I am also testing JPLAY 6 beta 7a in dual PC mode like you.  With XMOS USB Audio driver 2.23.0, I can set up to 170Hz/0.01sec.  350Hz/0.01sec gave sound just for a few seconds.
Maybe I should switch to WaveIO ASIO.

 
I installed the chodi driver and use it within JPlay with KS. No problems at all
 
Mar 14, 2015 at 8:59 AM Post #943 of 3,700
   
I installed the chodi driver and use it within JPlay with KS. No problems at all

 
The driver installation was successful and KS in Server Core is also working.  In the previous post, as somebody mentioned that KS did not work in Server Core, I thought it would be useless for me to install this driver.
WaveIO seems to have deleted the download link of their driver.
 
Mar 14, 2015 at 11:37 AM Post #944 of 3,700

 
Yes post pic of your transformer if you can.
 
Here is a link to my 'Lite DAC60 - PCM1704 R2R tubed DAC Mod Project'  Lot's of good info on R2R vs S-D DACs.  No this was a DIY project from a stock unit.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/740362/lite-dac60-pcm1704-r2r-tubed-dac-mod-project
 
The point is I agree with you on the importance of a clean PSU.
 
I also posted good info on the ElFidelity PCI-E, SATA, and CPU fan filterson my PC server thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/754654/new-pc-music-server-build-project-all-ssd-no-fans
 
Mar 14, 2015 at 12:02 PM Post #945 of 3,700
Originally Posted by rb2013 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
   
Yes post pic of your transformer if you can.
 
Hi i promise.
In the meantime i agree with the other poster who says that we can use some kind of isolation to supply the Gustard, without messing with the internals.
Something like a power conditioner or an isolation transformer.  A much more sane approach i admit 
redface.gif

 
Here is a link to my 'Lite DAC60 - PCM1704 R2R tubed DAC Mod Project'  Lot's of good info on R2R vs S-D DACs.  No this was a DIY project from a stock unit.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/740362/lite-dac60-pcm1704-r2r-tubed-dac-mod-project
 
I have read of it.  Great dac indeed even stock ! Congratulations !
I am not that much for tube output stages preferring solid state when well done.
I do not like the bass from the tubes in general. It is not as much granitic as i like
 
The point is I agree with you on the importance of a clean PSU.
 
I would add especially for digital sections ... i have the feeling that clock and dac circuits are extremely sensitive to PS quality.
But i would not discount even well executed SMPS like the one used in the Apogee Big Ben clock generator
 

 
 
 
I also posted good info on the ElFidelity PCI-E, SATA, and CPU fan filterson my PC server thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/754654/new-pc-music-server-build-project-all-ssd-no-fans
 
Thanks a lot indeed for the very interesting link !  i will read it with great attention
For now i see that you have selected Windows 10 ... i will read it for sure. I am very interested in this topic.
Thanks a lot again. Kind regards,  gino  
 

 

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