[conquerator2]

Yup knew it. It was the Gungnir.
They just don't work well together. Using a different lesser DAC to test and there are no locks anymore.
I am not sure what's causing it, maybe the Circultron technology? Dunno, really.
But it seems my U12 is fine. after all
Real happy 

 
 
Ok, it locked again..... but after a longer period of time.

 

[Chodi]

  Stumbled on to this CA thread about the U12 (this one was mentioned early on!)  we beat them to the punch!  Lot's of good info.  It seems like it's unanimously well liked -by a very knowledgeable, experienced and tough crowd!
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/gustard-u12-22517/
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
It seems we are ahead Thesycon driver wise (WaveIO ASIO, Thesycon Control Window, Thesycon Spy Tool) - thanks to you Chodi!!!
 
But they are way ahead on the mod front - lots of good suggestions.  Someone mentioned the Vanguard clocks there being the best.  Better get my soldering iron hot!
 
PS These were only 'suggested' mods - not actually done - so we are ahead!  I have the Pannies FC's already in.  Lot's of talk about mods already done to the U10.  I want to see which Amgis transformer they try - as that was discussed way back last year.  And I think we determined it was not a plug and play drop in replacement, like on the U10.  It appears the transformer in the U12 may have an unusual - proprietary wiring configuration.

Actually I am very active on the CA forum also but they haven't asked for my version of the driver so I haven't bothered. On CA things tend to get very technical regarding hardware you guys and those on this forum in general are more into the sound and describing what you hear. I still find lots of useful information on CA but if you want to know what something sounds like Head-fi is the place to be.

 

[rb2013]

Actually I am very active on the CA forum also but they haven't asked for my version of the driver so I haven't bothered. On CA things tend to get very technical regarding hardware you guys and those on this forum in general are more into the sound and describing what you hear. I still find lots of useful information on CA but if you want to know what something sounds like Head-fi is the place to be.

+1 I can't thank you enough. That group of tools did the trick. Especially the vol/bal control. Very much appreciated, along with your knowledgeable posts.

Cheers!

 

[Wynnytsky]

  Yup knew it. It was the Gungnir.
They just don't work well together. Using a different lesser DAC to test and there are no locks anymore.
I am not sure what's causing it, maybe the Circultron technology? Dunno, really.
But it seems my U12 is fine. after all
Real happy 

 
 
Ok, it locked again..... but after a longer period of time.

The guy who got me started with the U10 liked the sound of my U12 and ordered the same.  His unit would frequently get the dashes in the display.  We swapped units and mine never failed with his M2Tech Young.  His unit tripped up constantly with my Yulong D18.  He paid for shipping back to China and he had to stay on top of the guy because the tracking info on a "reverse commute" is as useless as USPS tracking.  Eventually he got his 2nd unit and he prefers it over his u10.
 
Of the 4 u10s and 4 u12s my friends purchased, this was the first bum unit.

 

[Wynnytsky]

 
Hi Wynnytsky,
 
Thanks for the multiple outputs confirmation (I think you maybe posted that info before.. much appreciated). I am thinking about using the  HDMI I2S and AES together. I now am using the AES to an Audio GD NOS1704 DAC and the results are outstanding...
 
I have also just added an IFI iUSBPower with their Gemini cable (from the computer) and using an adapter at the U12 end (the iUSB Power is upside-down). It seemed to be an improvement but I have made a few changes lately (I may remove it later and check if the iUSB is really necessary for SQ).
I also recently added a Yulong P18 powering the U12, DAC and preamp.. I think that was helpful also as the power here is not so great.
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/yulong-p18-without-dynamic-compression-power-purifier-filter.html
Now, if the recording is good, I cannot sense any hash in the vocal area if the vocals are recorded relatively dry. I was able to adjust my JPlay and AO settings for maximum detail without any noticeable high frequency hash being amplified. 
 
Before the Gemini, I was using a Supra USB cable.. (had a good whathifi review).. pretty cheap and possibly a step up from standard, but if I remember correct the iPower includes a nice USB cable in the box.
 
I also bought and tried an iPurifier but with another DDC before I got the U12, but there was no improvement in my system with the iPurifier .

You know I would be all over that P18 if I hadn't already spent 1450 on a PSAudio P3.  The coolest thing about the P3 is that I'll LogMeIn to my home network from work and switch on the P3 (via it's webserver) so the tubes are warm by the time I'm home!  I could also configure my FIOS router to allow a direct connection over the internet.  I couldn't figure out how to flash it's BIOS and the guys at PSAudio had a short meeting then flashed my unit from Colorado, like it was a cable TV box or something.
 
Ha - I was hoping the iPurifier+gustard would have been identical to the iPower+gustard.  Sadly this will consume my thoughts while I'm on vacation for the next week.

 

[Benny-x]

 
Ha - I was hoping the iPurifier+gustard would have been identical to the iPower+gustard.  Sadly this will consume my thoughts while I'm on vacation for the next week.

 
I own both the iUSB Power and the iPurifier, they're not the same. The iUSB Power only injects clean power and has a special ground switch for lifting the old "dirty" ground and establishing a new, clean one. It does this job well and even if I find after my extended listening sessions that the U12 doesn't need it, I'll still be keeping it.
 
The iPurifier on the other hand has some "filtering" going on. It apparently filters the data +/- signals. As Chodi said, over on CA they're all about hardware, so if you look in the iPurifier thread you'll see a take down of the iUSB and iPurifier and get to see detailed pictures of their respective internals. In the end I haven't done enough listening with the iPurifier to say whether I think it's doing much or not. If I find it's not doing enough in my system then I may put it up for sale, but the iUSB I will not. 
 
Hope the helps

 

[Benny-x]

  Stumbled on to this CA thread about the U12 (this one was mentioned early on!)  we beat them to the punch!  Lot's of good info.  It seems like it's unanimously well liked -by a very knowledgeable, experienced and tough crowd!
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/gustard-u12-22517/
 
It seems we are ahead Thesycon driver wise (WaveIO ASIO, Thesycon Control Window, Thesycon Spy Tool) - thanks to you Chodi!!!
 
But they are way ahead on the mod front - lots of good suggestions.  Someone mentioned the Vanguard clocks there being the best.  Better get my soldering iron hot!

I'm Ben-M over on CA. Both threads bring different things to the game, but Chodi was spot on in saying CA tends to be hardware focused. I'm happy both forums have different flavours, it helps satisfy both parts for me.
 
 

  I want to see which Amgis transformer they try - as that was discussed way back last year.  And I think we determined it was not a plug and play drop in replacement, like on the U10.  It appears the transformer in the U12 may have an unusual - proprietary wiring configuration.
 

I actually opened up my U12 a couple days ago and tried to open the transformer part so that I could get closer and confirm the primary/secondary wiring layout, but I wasn't able to get the blue plastic case off. Now I wasn't trying all that hard and just wanted to have a look, but that's as close as I've gotten so far. 
 
I will, however, restate that NO ONE has confirmed that he U12 uses a proprietary wiring format for it's transformer. Us modders wonder about this and have to be careful with it, but so far no one has confirmed left or right. Unfortunately I'll probably have to buy another U12 to mod because I don't want to brick the one I have as it's just such a useful and well built little tank.
 
If someone has any way of confirming the wiring please PM me about it as I'm happy to check

 

[abartels]

I ordered 2x Panasonic FC 4700uF 25V Hope they are not too big to fit in,,,
 
Has anyone thoughts about the exchange of psu diodes? I know, they are SMD types, not sure if MUR120 diode would be better.
 
 
Anyone knows if there's U12 schematics available? Would be very nice for modding purpouses  
 
 
FYI:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/752522/gustard-amplifiers-and-dacs

 

[rb2013]

  I'm Ben-M over on CA. Both threads bring different things to the game, but Chodi was spot on in saying CA tends to be hardware focused. I'm happy both forums have different flavours, it helps satisfy both parts for me.
 
 
I actually opened up my U12 a couple days ago and tried to open the transformer part so that I could get closer and confirm the primary/secondary wiring layout, but I wasn't able to get the blue plastic case off. Now I wasn't trying all that hard and just wanted to have a look, but that's as close as I've gotten so far. 
 
I will, however, restate that NO ONE has confirmed that he U12 uses a proprietary wiring format for it's transformer. Us modders wonder about this and have to be careful with it, but so far no one has confirmed left or right. Unfortunately I'll probably have to buy another U12 to mod because I don't want to brick the one I have as it's just such a useful and well built little tank.
 
If someone has any way of confirming the wiring please PM me about it as I'm happy to check

As always reading the thread is a good place to start (page 8 post #117)
 

 

 
The independent power supply helps a lot because it is no longer dependent on the weak and noisy USB 5V supply, which can only supply up to 500mA of current, that can drop to 100mA in some cases.
 
If you are interested in a better power supply consider replacing the power transformer, I have a similar unit based on the previous generation XMOS and it came with the green Bingzi transformer. I wanted something that was UL rated and replaced it with an Amgis/Alfamag, the bonus was it ran much cooler and the Alfamag was about 10% heavier (more copper in the windings)
Outside of the US, Talema is easier to find and a little cheaper.
 
I also installed ultra low jitter crystal XOs replacing the "Precision 0.1ppm" ones that it came with.
The Gustard looks like it has separate regulators for the XOs so it is probably worthwhile to put in a low jitter unit.
 
The last part is to replace some of the caps with Panasonic OSCONs and Nichicon FP Polymer caps.
The main rectifier filters  I used the Chemicon KZN. The KZN has 2x lower ESR than the supposedly Panasonic PX caps
(I think the PX are fakes)
 
Pictures of my unit.

 

Just ordered the Alfamag transformer - $17.68 from Digikey it looks like a drop in replacement - thanks for the info!
 
Edit: Do you think the pinouts are the same on both the stock and Amgis trannys?  It appears so except sideways.  The Amgis is  115VAC on the top - 7VDC on the bottom.  Looking down neg on the left - pos on the right. The stock is looking down 115V on the left - but looks like 9V on the right.  Is that Neg to the left on the DC - the AC to the right?  Wondering if I might need a 9V version?
 
It looks like these might be better in this unit - both 9V http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/L01-6341/TE2245-ND/2137075
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/70041K/1295-1041-ND/3881432   The Amgis is $19 and the Talema is $22.
 

 
Also the caps to the right of the FCs the metal cans look like 16V 330uf (C55 & C56) - what do you think?  Will replace with Oscons. The stock ones have a little black box SMD on the bottom, those are the polymers?  
Digikey has the through the hole Nichicon FP's http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/RHT1C331MDN1/493-3739-ND/2207349 
 


Edited by rb2013 - 10/25/14 at 11:23am

Reply







 

  b0bb

18V Center Tap (9V-0V-9V) is the secondary voltage based on the pictures. The little metal can caps with the blue stripe on top are SMD, this can either be polymer or regular aluminum electrolytic, can't quite make out the markings on your picture. These have to be SMD not thru hole if you are replacing them.
 
The unit in my pictures is not the U12  and the secondary voltage of the transformer is different.
 
The ones you selected are 10VA, Gustard is using 15VA. The link below are the candidate units
 
Before you buy, measure the sides of the Gustard unit. The ones in the link below are 60mm x 60mm
 
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?pv258=60&FV=19440081&k=15va+toroidal&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&stock=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25
 
Either the  Talema or Amgis in the link will do the job

  Thanks for the guidance.  It looks like the 115V pins on the stock are lined up to the left of the unit when viewed from the top and the model numbers on the top.  The Amgis looks like the 115V pins are on the top, again viewed from the top and the model numbers on the top.
 
Wouldn't I align the 115V pins?  So mount the Amgis with the 115V pins to the left as well?
 
 
 

 
Post a picture of the underside of the board, it has to be a flat, straight on view. The important part is the layout of the output pins, the Amgis only goes in one way. The 115V (Primary side) has pins that are closer together.
 
Amgis datasheet: http://www.amgistoroids.com/assets/files/L01%20Series%2050%2060%20Hz%20PC%20Mount%20Toroidal%20Transformers.pdf
 

The distance between pins 2 and 3 is 0.1" or 2.54 mm closer together compared to the distance between pins 6 and 7
 

 

Bobb
 
Originally Posted by rb2013 
 
  
Yes - it does appear the 115V pins would be to the left - measuring from the outside pins they are approx 44mm versus the ones near the edge to the right at approx 51mm -looking down.
 
The outside case does appear to be 60mm x 60mm.
 


 
Thanks!
 
PS It looks like the stock has a center hole mount.  On the Amgis it look like an equiv M4 threaded screw 
 
Since it looks like Digikey has both the Amgis and the Talema - which do you think is better?  The Talema is $5 more expensive.

>>Yes - it does appear the 115V pins would be to the left - measuring from the outside pins they are approx 44mm versus the ones near the edge to the right at approx 51mm -looking down.
 
I suggest holding off, Gustard may be using an inverted pin setup to the standard layout (that is the Primary and secondaries are swapped).
 
I have ordered the U12 which arrives in about 2 weeks. On the Amgis the closer pin set is the primary, it looks like the primary on the Gustard is the pin out that is spaced more widely apart.
 
Tracing from the mains input socket is the safest option, see where the 115V input is going into, if it goes to the narrower pin set then you can replace it with the Amgis or Talema, otherwise this is a proprietary pinout.


 

 

[Benny-x]

 
As always reading the thread is a good place to start (page 8 post #117)
 

That's 3 times across 2 threads, man. Reading my words as they're written is key to gleaning my meaning.
 
If you read what I said, and that seems to be the issue, I said no one confirmed the difference. I haven't seen any pictures of you, or anyone else, cracking open your U12, taking off the transformer, measuring the voltages from the outputs, and confirming the orientation of the primary and secondary leads. And short of that I also haven't seen you with a wiring schematic from Gustard.
 
Having not done or supplied evidence of either of those I think we sit exactly where I said, in that we worry that the primary and secondary wiring may be proprietary, but we haven't confirmed(there's that word again) it yet.
 
As it was left off last time we discussed this, a month or two ago, until it can be confirmed(make sure you're using the appropriate definition of this word) we have to leave it as: 
 
"don't swap the transformer for whatever you find, because it probably, as opposed to definitely, isn't correct".
 
 
 
 
*though you seem to have an issue forgetting I've been in this thread since about page 16, have talked with you on a regular basis, and have contributed to the discussion, I'm not here to argue with you. Referring me back to "read the thread" just makes you look like a dou**che, when I know you're not given the various discussions and contributions you've made. You have to understand that proclaiming that the transformer ISN'T the same, without 100% confirming it, is also bad. If someone doesn't read through the thread and sees you "proving" it's different then they may overlook possible alternatives that are simply rotated 90*. Installing one of those and it being a normal unit, just rotated, will result in the same catastrophic result as installing a normal transformer into a proprietary place.
 
You need to understand that I'm not saying what we've found so far isn't right, I'm just saying that until we confirm it we can't tell people it is.
 
Until we prove it we have to accept that other things are possible.

 

[Benny-x]

  I ordered 2x Panasonic FC 4700uF 25V Hope they are not too big to fit in,,,
 
Has anyone thoughts about the exchange of psu diodes? I know, they are SMD types, not sure if MUR120 diode would be better.
 
 
Anyone knows if there's U12 schematics available? Would be very nice for modding purpouses  
 
 
FYI:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/752522/gustard-amplifiers-and-dacs

That is also what I REALLLLLLLLLY~ want. I can't find a contact for Gustard though, only wholesalers :-/  And they don't have the schematic  
In my experience Chinese companies are really worried about IP and copies/fakes, so it's hard to get those kinds of things from them. It'd be awesome to get one, though. It'd give us a huge leap in modding ability. 

 

[rb2013]

  That's 3 times across 2 threads, man. Reading my words as they're written is key to gleaning my meaning.
 
If you read what I said, and that seems to be the issue, I said no one confirmed the difference. I haven't seen any pictures of you, or anyone else, cracking open your U12, taking off the transformer, measuring the voltages from the outputs, and confirming the orientation of the primary and secondary leads. And short of that I also haven't seen you with a wiring schematic from Gustard.
 
Having not done or supplied evidence of either of those I think we sit exactly where I said, in that we worry that the primary and secondary wiring may be proprietary, but we haven't confirmed(there's that word again) it yet.
 
As it was left off last time we discussed this, a month or two ago, until it can be confirmed(make sure you're using the appropriate definition of this word) we have to leave it as: 
 
"don't swap the transformer for whatever you find, because it probably, as opposed to definitely, isn't correct".
 
 
 
 
*though you seem to have an issue forgetting I've been in this thread since about page 16, have talked with you on a regular basis, and have contributed to the discussion, I'm not here to argue with you. Referring me back to "read the thread" just makes you look like a dou**che, when I know you're not given the various discussions and contributions you've made. You have to understand that proclaiming that the transformer ISN'T the same, without 100% confirming it, is also bad. If someone doesn't read through the thread and sees you "proving" it's different then they may overlook possible alternatives that are simply rotated 90*. Installing one of those and it being a normal unit, just rotated, will result in the same catastrophic result as installing a normal transformer into a proprietary place.
 
You need to understand that I'm not saying what we've found so far isn't right, I'm just saying that until we confirm it we can't tell people it is.
 
Until we prove it we have to accept that other things are possible.

OK? 

  Well I have at least addressed the issue - but be my guest and 'crack open' that case.  Or just drop any transformer into there - just keep a fire extinguisher handy.  Please report back on your results

 

[rb2013]

  That is also what I REALLLLLLLLLY~ want. I can't find a contact for Gustard though, only wholesalers :-/  And they don't have the schematic  
In my experience Chinese companies are really worried about IP and copies/fakes, so it's hard to get those kinds of things from them. It'd be awesome to get one, though. It'd give us a huge leap in modding ability. 

Maybe I'm missing something - but all I see is a link back to this thread. 
 
Sorry sir - I can't abide your command to produce a U12 schematic instantly.  Please accept my humble apologies.

 

[abartels]

  I ordered 2x Panasonic FC 4700uF 25V Hope they are not too big to fit in,,,
 
Has anyone thoughts about the exchange of psu diodes? I know, they are SMD types, not sure if MUR120 diode would be better.
 
 
Anyone knows if there's U12 schematics available? Would be very nice for modding purpouses  
 
 
FYI:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/752522/gustard-amplifiers-and-dacs

That is also what I REALLLLLLLLLY~ want. I can't find a contact for Gustard though, only wholesalers :-/  And they don't have the schematic  
In my experience Chinese companies are really worried about IP and copies/fakes, so it's hard to get those kinds of things from them. It'd be awesome to get one, though. It'd give us a huge leap in modding ability. 

===============================
 
Benny, see the link above from my post, (it's only 2 pages).
The head-fi user Ansi has contacted the manufacturer and he will visit them next month!
He even got offered the possibility to listen to all the Gustard products at their expenses!
 
I hope he can get the schematics, and i also hope to hear more about the upcoming Gustard X20 Dac 

 

[Benny-x]

Oh God, I'm being trolled.