Zoide
Headphoneus Supremus
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Next thing you know SB Live -> Bose will sound the same as m902 -> R10s! Think of the money you'll save
Grace m902 Initial Impressions
- Thread starter Edwood
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NewMexiCat
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Quote:
That is very interesting, because at first blush, I compared the same song on two different pathways to the m902:
1) Redbook CD on my APL 563 > analog out > m902; and
2) Lossless APE file on my M-Audio 24/96 (via ASIO) > digital out > m902
. . . and I preferred Option 1!
Now, the APL-mod of my budget source upgraded the power supply and anaolg stage, but the DAC is stock.
So, does that mean the stock Pioneer 563a's DAC outperforms the m902's DAC? If so, that's not a ringing endorsement.
OTOH, maybe my sound card is the weak link here? With the 24/96, I'm limited to coax digital out. But with the m902's ability to correct jitter, I would hope that wouldn't be a big problem.
I'll wait for further assessment from those with the golden ears!
| Originally Posted by Edwood I'm having a hard time telling the difference between a Mint and the m902. Likewise having a hard time telling the difference between RME Analog out -> 901 vs. RME Optical out -> m902 Toslink input.
|
That is very interesting, because at first blush, I compared the same song on two different pathways to the m902:
1) Redbook CD on my APL 563 > analog out > m902; and
2) Lossless APE file on my M-Audio 24/96 (via ASIO) > digital out > m902
. . . and I preferred Option 1!
Now, the APL-mod of my budget source upgraded the power supply and anaolg stage, but the DAC is stock.
So, does that mean the stock Pioneer 563a's DAC outperforms the m902's DAC? If so, that's not a ringing endorsement.
OTOH, maybe my sound card is the weak link here? With the 24/96, I'm limited to coax digital out. But with the m902's ability to correct jitter, I would hope that wouldn't be a big problem.
I'll wait for further assessment from those with the golden ears!
lan
Videographus Supremus:Makes audio cables using super-advanced materials, like "some clear tape" and "some not so clear tape."
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That's most unufortunate Ed. I will be willing to make the sacrifice of listening to your m902 for you
Quote:
Maybe a bit of RS-1 love will clear that up for you!
I guess we shall have a lot of interesting exploring to do when we get together. I don't see how the the switchbox could be dragging down the SQ to mask the differences, so I guess that means the 902's DAC is hardly all that? hmmmm
| Originally Posted by Edwood My ears feel like they're full of lead now. 
-Ed |
Maybe a bit of RS-1 love will clear that up for you!
I guess we shall have a lot of interesting exploring to do when we get together. I don't see how the the switchbox could be dragging down the SQ to mask the differences, so I guess that means the 902's DAC is hardly all that? hmmmm
Quote:
Compare with the digital output from your APL 563 instead of using your soundcards digital output. The comparsion you made is not fair at all. To make a dac sound good you need a good transport...
| Originally Posted by NewMexiCat That is very interesting, because at first blush, I compared the same song on two different pathways to the m902: 1) Redbook CD on my APL 563 > analog out > m902; and 2) Lossless APE file on my M-Audio 24/96 (via ASIO) > digital out > m902 . . . and I preferred Option 1!
|
Compare with the digital output from your APL 563 instead of using your soundcards digital output. The comparsion you made is not fair at all. To make a dac sound good you need a good transport...
NewMexiCat
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Quote:
Do you not feel that an "audiophile grade" soundcard can compete with a good transport? There are a lot of folks over at the "computer-as-source" forum who do.
In any event, you have a good point. A better A/B test would be using the 563 as the source in both instances and switch between analog and digital. I'll give that a try this evening.
| Originally Posted by MartinB To make a dac sound good you need a good transport... |
Do you not feel that an "audiophile grade" soundcard can compete with a good transport? There are a lot of folks over at the "computer-as-source" forum who do.
In any event, you have a good point. A better A/B test would be using the 563 as the source in both instances and switch between analog and digital. I'll give that a try this evening.
Quote:
They probably can act as pretty good transports, but I have heard that the Pioneer DVD-players are excellent transports so a fair comparsion would be using the digital output of the Pioneer as you say yourself. I think the Grace probably will beat the analog outputs of the Pioneer if you try this...
I am very interested in your comparsion!
| Originally Posted by NewMexiCat Do you not feel that an "audiophile grade" soundcard can compete with a good transport? There are a lot of folks over at the "computer-as-source" forum who do. In any event, you have a good point. A better A/B test would be using the 563 as the source in both instances and switch between analog and digital. I'll give that a try this evening. |
They probably can act as pretty good transports, but I have heard that the Pioneer DVD-players are excellent transports so a fair comparsion would be using the digital output of the Pioneer as you say yourself. I think the Grace probably will beat the analog outputs of the Pioneer if you try this...
I am very interested in your comparsion!
You guys are comparing redbook audio and not DVD-Audio to ripped/encoded CD tracks, right?
-Ed
-Ed
NewMexiCat
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Yep, comparison using redbook only.
sethk
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Could some m902 owners tell me what you ended up paying for one of these babies? If you don't feel like posting it on the forum, maybe by PM.
And for those that find CD player output better than the DAC, sell me your 902! There are cheaper amps, for sure
And for those that find CD player output better than the DAC, sell me your 902! There are cheaper amps, for sure
NewMexiCat
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Okay, I did my DAC comparison last night--
Tracks Listened To:
Dire Straits, Your Latest Trick, Brothers In Arms (XRCD version)
Sam Phillips, Where the Colors Don't Go, Cruel Inventions (24/96 DAD)
John Coltrane, Blue Train, Blue Train (24/96 DAD)
Signal Paths:
A: APL 563 analog out > m902 ubalanced analog in
B: APL 563 coax digital out > m902 coax digital in
Impressions:
I listened to an entire track using Path A (the 563 DAC) and then listened to the entire track again via Path B (the m902 DAC). Then, I listened to each track a third time and switched back and forth between paths using the m902's handy input selector.
My first impression was a bit alarming (for a guy who just spent a bunch of money on the Grace): I immediately preferred Path A. It was airy and open with a wide soundstage, more dynamic, and more thump to the bass. Path B sounded closed in with a low ceiling on the highs. Bass on Path B was present, but a bit constrained.
However, as I moved on to Coltrane, giving critical listening to the Blue Train track, things began to change. Suddenly I noticed the highs on Path A were uncontrolled and "bleeding." The bass was a bit bloated. Going through the Grace DAC, I got the feeling I was hearing a much more accurate reproduction of the sound with increased detail and a very full midrange. The soundstage depth was still a bit lacking. Nonetheless, I listened on to the rest of the Coltrane CD and bumped the volume up to the low 80s (about as high as I could comfortably listen without fear of doing some damage to my ears). At high volume, Path B really seemed to shine as there was no hint of strain or distortion. Still a very clean, detailed sound.
Going through the 563 DAC, while intially pleasing, became fatiguing over time as I began to ascertain some harshness in the almost artificial sounding highs.
I don't know, I may be trying to justify my purchase, but my final conclusion was that the Grace DAC edged out the 563 DAC. It certainly was more accurate and defined, but its polite nature may tend to bring the "veil" back to my HD650's.
I think more listening is required, and that's a good thing, right?
Tracks Listened To:
Dire Straits, Your Latest Trick, Brothers In Arms (XRCD version)
Sam Phillips, Where the Colors Don't Go, Cruel Inventions (24/96 DAD)
John Coltrane, Blue Train, Blue Train (24/96 DAD)
Signal Paths:
A: APL 563 analog out > m902 ubalanced analog in
B: APL 563 coax digital out > m902 coax digital in
Impressions:
I listened to an entire track using Path A (the 563 DAC) and then listened to the entire track again via Path B (the m902 DAC). Then, I listened to each track a third time and switched back and forth between paths using the m902's handy input selector.
My first impression was a bit alarming (for a guy who just spent a bunch of money on the Grace): I immediately preferred Path A. It was airy and open with a wide soundstage, more dynamic, and more thump to the bass. Path B sounded closed in with a low ceiling on the highs. Bass on Path B was present, but a bit constrained.
However, as I moved on to Coltrane, giving critical listening to the Blue Train track, things began to change. Suddenly I noticed the highs on Path A were uncontrolled and "bleeding." The bass was a bit bloated. Going through the Grace DAC, I got the feeling I was hearing a much more accurate reproduction of the sound with increased detail and a very full midrange. The soundstage depth was still a bit lacking. Nonetheless, I listened on to the rest of the Coltrane CD and bumped the volume up to the low 80s (about as high as I could comfortably listen without fear of doing some damage to my ears). At high volume, Path B really seemed to shine as there was no hint of strain or distortion. Still a very clean, detailed sound.
Going through the 563 DAC, while intially pleasing, became fatiguing over time as I began to ascertain some harshness in the almost artificial sounding highs.
I don't know, I may be trying to justify my purchase, but my final conclusion was that the Grace DAC edged out the 563 DAC. It certainly was more accurate and defined, but its polite nature may tend to bring the "veil" back to my HD650's.
I think more listening is required, and that's a good thing, right?
Anyone get the USB input to take anything higher than 48KHz?
I upsampled to 96KHz in Foobar, and outputting optical with the RME digi96/8 PAD, it lights up 96 on the m902.
But with USB, I upsample with foobar to 96KHz, and m902 lights up 48KHz. If I change Foobar to 44.1, then the m902 lights up 44.1KHz. What gives? USB limited to only 44.1 and 48?
Or do I have an incorrect setting in Foobar?
-Ed
I upsampled to 96KHz in Foobar, and outputting optical with the RME digi96/8 PAD, it lights up 96 on the m902.
But with USB, I upsample with foobar to 96KHz, and m902 lights up 48KHz. If I change Foobar to 44.1, then the m902 lights up 44.1KHz. What gives? USB limited to only 44.1 and 48?
Or do I have an incorrect setting in Foobar?
-Ed
USB doesn't go past 48kHz.
Best,
-Jason
Best,
-Jason
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