[Mumrik]

True, I belive SiS still owns the bang/buck area, even though KT266A boards can be found for less than $100...

I wouldn't place the Ali C on line with the KT266A though... Isn't this the chipset the Iwill XP333 is based on? That board is getting very mixed reviews and I haven't heard of any other board based on it yet... Even if it IS stable, it's still using way faster memory to reach the speed the KT266A is at with 133DDR..

BTW You forgot the nForce, I'd say it resides between the KT266A and the SiS...


Quote:

versus 256K for Coppermine PIIIs and current P4s)!

512K for the new Northwood P4s...

 

[aeberbach]

Mumrik - bang for buck is defined by the Soyo Dragon Plus. RAID, good onboard 10/100 networking, acceptable onboard sound that includes digital optical/coax I/O, overclocking, even a smart card reader thrown in (may actually be useful in Europe, not much in the USA). Compared to the KT7A-RAID it's way easier to set up, less conflicts and just as fast. Of course being able to leave out the Sound Blaster helps with the conflicts, but there's the value for you.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mumrik I wouldn't place the Ali C on line with the KT266A though... Isn't this the chipset the Iwill XP333 is based on? That board is getting very mixed reviews and I haven't heard of any other board based on it yet... Even if it IS stable, it's still using way faster memory to reach the speed the KT266A is at with 133DDR.. BTW You forgot the nForce, I'd say it resides between the KT266A and the SiS...

Murmik, I did mention the nForce 420 chipset, which I purposely left unrated. And that ALi C needed PC2700/DDR333 RAM just to match the performance of the KT266A chipset with PC2100/DDR266 RAM (just like the SiS 645 chipset for Pentium 4 processors needed DDR333 RAM just to match the performance of the ********* Intel 850 chipset with dual-channel PC800 "Rambust"/RDRAM memory). And as I stated earlier in another thread, there are NO "official" PC2700/DDR333 memory modules on the market; all of the so-called "PC2700/DDR333" modules that I've seen are really PC2100/DDR266 modules that have been bench-tested at an actual 166MHz clock speed (as opposed to the normal 133MHz).

UPDATE ON VIA: Just when the motherboards based on the KT266A have begun shipping in large quantities, VIA has upped the ante with its brand-new KT266E chipset!

And the biggest addition is support for Ultra ATA/133 IDE hard drives, which will allow support for the IDE hard drives larger than 127GB (Maxtor is currently shipping a 160GB IDE HD - but at 5400rpm, not 7200rpm).

Quote:

Originally posted by Mumrik 512K for the new Northwood P4s...

Unfortunately, the new Northwood P4s will be very poor values compared to existing processors - at least initially. Their initial prices will be $700 to $1,000 USD just for the d@mn processor (based on actual prices from authorized system builder/resellers, not on bulk prices "in lots of 1,000").

 

[Mumrik]

Quote:

Originally posted by aeberbach Mumrik - bang for buck is defined by the Soyo Dragon Plus. RAID, good onboard 10/100 networking, acceptable onboard sound that includes digital optical/coax I/O, overclocking, even a smart card reader thrown in (may actually be useful in Europe, not much in the USA). Compared to the KT7A-RAID it's way easier to set up, less conflicts and just as fast. Of course being able to leave out the Sound Blaster helps with the conflicts, but there's the value for you.

Yeah, but as for chipsets, not boards, the SiS offers the best performance for the price (I think I'm getting the Dragon+, the reviews have been great).



Quote:

Murmik, I did mention the nForce 420 chipset, which I purposely left unrated. And that ALi C needed PC2700/DDR333 RAM just to match the performance of the KT266A chipset with PC2100/DDR266 RAM (just like the SiS 645 chipset for Pentium 4 processors needed DDR333 RAM just to match the performance of the ********* Intel 850 chipset with dual-channel PC800 "Rambust"/RDRAM memory). And as I stated earlier in another thread, there are NO "official" PC2700/DDR333 memory modules on the market; all of the so-called "PC2700/DDR333" modules that I've seen are really PC2100/DDR266 modules that have been bench-tested at an actual 166MHz clock speed (as opposed to the normal 133MHz).

Eagle_Driver, I see your post was edited since I first read it, the ALi C disappeared. I don't know if you changed anything else, but if you mentioned the nForce in the original post (the one I read), I'm sorry for missing it (I see it's there now).

You don't say anything about the ALi C and PC2700 in the post I reacted too...

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally posted by aeberbach ...bang for buck is defined by the Soyo Dragon Plus. RAID, good onboard 10/100 networking, acceptable onboard sound that includes digital optical/coax I/O, overclocking, even a smart card reader thrown in...

Well, I've read a number of bad reviews from users who own (or have owned) the Dragon Plus - namely, buggy BIOSes for that mobo and the Dragon Plus's lack of stock-speed stability. Uh, did I mention that it costs more than other KT266A-chipset-based motherboards?

The ABIT KR7-RAID is a slightly less expensive alternative to the Dragon Plus. It lacks any onboard NIC or any onboard sound whatsoever, but its RAID controller (though somewhat finicky to set up) supports Ultra ATA/133 (and thus Ultra ATA hard drives with a capacity larger than 127GB), and it has six PCI slots and four DDR memory slots (the Dragon Plus has only five PCI slots and three DDR memory slots).

P.S. The Dragon Plus's RAID controller only supports Ultra ATA/100, and is limited in hard drive capacity to 127GB per physically installed drive. But so far, only Maxtor has shipped an Ultra ATA hard drive larger in capacity than 127GB (in fact, 160GB - but with a rotational speed of only 5400rpm!

). Thus, almost all current motherboards will require an Ultra ATA/133 add-in card and an operating system that can support such large HDs (for Microsoft OSes, you'll need Windows XP or a server version of Windows 2000 in order to support such large hard drives).

And speaking of DDR memory, it has been going up in price - waaaaaay up in price, as a matter of fact. (To be honest, PC133 SDRAM also costs much more than it did a couple of months ago.) Right now, DDR266 DDR SDRAM costs almost as much per megabyte as PC800 RDRAM - and if these price increases keep on going, by the time my birthday comes next month, SDRAM memory (whether it's of the SDR or DDR type) will cost as much as or more (per MB) than RDRAM.

 

[dhwilkin]

Quote:

Eagle_Driver said... And speaking of DDR memory, it has been going up in price - waaaaaay up in price, as a matter of fact. (To be honest, PC133 SDRAM also costs much more than it did a couple of months ago.) Right now, DDR266 DDR SDRAM costs almost as much per megabyte as PC800 RDRAM - and if these price increases keep on going, by the time my birthday comes next month, SDRAM memory (whether it's of the SDR or DDR type) will cost as much as or more (per MB) than RDRAM.

DDR costs as much as RAMBUST now? Behold, the Apocalypse draws nigh...

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally posted by dhwilkin DDR costs as much as RAMBUST now? Behold, the Apocalypse draws nigh...

But RAMBUST still costs far less than it did two years ago. It's because of relatively low supply and high demand that DDR costs so much right now. But even these days, memory (whether it's RAMBUST or DDR or SDR) costs less than 50 cents per megabyte.

On a side note, my Athlon XP 1600+ upgrade (motherboard, CPU, CPU fan and DDR memory) cost me $330; had I decided to go the Intel Pentium 4 + RDRAM route, I would have chosen the retail-boxed 1.8GHz Pentium 4 (for equivalent performance to the Athlon XP 1600+ ) - and then with the price of two 128MB sticks of RAMBUST memory (256MB total) and an Asus P4T-E motherboard, that combo would have cost me $536!

And accounting for nearly all of that $206 price difference are the CPU and motherboard! (Sure, there are cheaper Pentium 4/RDRAM mobos on the market - but they all require a Pentium 4-modified ATX PSU and may require a Pentium 4-modified ATX case. The Asus mobo is the only one that I know of that will work in a standard ATX case with a standard ATX PSU of at least 300W output - but you'll need a spare connector like that used to connect the PSU to a hard drive or a CD-RW drive in addition to the standard ATX connector.)

 

[Mumrik]

New in the first place on the chipset list: VIA's KT333...... (why won't this thread die?)

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mumrik New in the first place on the chipset list: VIA's KT333...... (why won't this thread die?)

Heheheh. Nobody has yet shipped any motherboards with that chipset.

 

[Mumrik]

Technically true...

Tbreak has tested two prerelease bords form Asus and MSI (if I remember correctly).

I believe it'll be official on the 20th...

 

[Audio-Me]

I want an Apple PowerBook G4.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Both SDRAM and DDRRAM now cost far more now than they did three months ago!! In fact, DDR memory - even the DDR266 variety - now costs more per MB than even PC800 RDRAM (which, BTW, now costs almost as "cheap" as PC133 SDRAM). And that's because of skyrocketing SDRAM prices!

 

[raymondlin]

Good thing I packed my PC full when it was at it's cheapest, but it'll come down again.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Well, memory prices seem to have flattened out... But going back to that "value for the buck" current-model Soyo Dragon series of motherboards, I've seen three so far - that K7V Dragon Plus that aeberbach had mentioned, and two Intel Pentium 4-compatible Dragons: the P4S Dragon Ultra (based on the SiS645 chipset) and the P4I Fire Dragon (which uses the Intel 845D chipset). But between the two P4 Dragon motherboards, either one is a very good choice, if you must upgrade to a Pentium 4 processor. Though I haven't seen any professional reviews of the Dragon Ultra, Tom's Hardware rated the Fire Dragon as one of the best 845D-chipset-based motherboards (among nearly a dozen tested). (Better than the Asus P4B266, as a matter of fact.)

BTW, the performance of the best 845D-chipset-based motherboards (with a given amount of DDR266 DDR RAM) approaches that of a middle-of-the-road-performing 850-chipset-based motherboard (with an equal amount of PC800 RDRAM).

 

[Eagle_Driver]

During the past week, my AMD Athlon XP-based computer has been hanging during soft rebooting! (That is, it wanted to load Windows, but then sits and freezes up.) I had to shut down my system, wait a little while to cool things down, and then turn the power back on before Windows can start booting again.

Here is my configuration:

1. AMD Athlon XP 1600+ (1.4GHz)
2. 256MB DDR266 RAM
3. ECS K7S5A motherboard (SiS735 chipset)
4. ATI Radeon 8500 64MB AGP card
5. WD1200BB 120GB 7200rpm UATA100 HD
6. 8X DVD and 24/10/40 CD-RW drives
7. TBSC sound card
8. USR 56K v.90 "controller-based" PCI modem
9. Windows XP Profesional (corporate edition)

I tried replacing that Antec PP303X 300W PSU (according to AMD, it's only recommended for an Athlon up to 900MHz or a Duron up to 950MHz) with a PP412X 400W PSU (AMD-recommended for all released processor speeds), and then tried replacing that mediocre CoolerMaster el-cheapo fan/heatsink with a copper-core/aluminum-hybrid unit from Antec. That helped a little bit, but it still hangs at times. Even with silver-based thermal compound placed between the CPU and heatsink, the CPU temperature still reads 41 or 42 degrees Celsius (106-107 degrees F), and it still hangs during soft rebooting.

Now what? What should I do?

1. Replace the motherboard with a different one.
2. Upgrade further to one of those "all-copper" heatsinks (with a fan on the heatsink).
3. Scrap Windows XP and go with Windows 98SE (which means no more TBSC and going back to the el-crappo SB Live!, or keeping TBSC but downgrading to an outdated video card) or Windows Me. (And please, don't suggest Windows 2000 or Linux - and please, don't tell me to get a Mac; the programs that I use won't run at all on any of those.)

Any suggestions?