[raymondlin]

Just a few computer related questions, because I'll need a new computer in about 6 months (for my post graduate diplomar) and I need to do my research nice and early. Money is not that much a problem, up to £2000/$2800 max (should be enough, shouldn't it?). It'll need to be good at Photoshop 6 and AutoCAD, so I know I'll need plenty of RAM. And what about a Dual processor?

Currently I am using P3 450 with 512MB RAM and TNT2 Ultra.

1. What is the difference between SDRAM, DDRRAM and RDRAM?

2. Which one work best with a P4?

3. Is 256 L2 Cache better then just 256K cache?

4. Does a 15" TFT monitor have the same viewable area as a 17" CRT monitor? and what brand do you recommend?

 

[dhwilkin]

1)
- SDRAM: Cheapest and most common memory available. Can only transmit data on one edge of the clock cycle. Average latency and bus bandwidth.
- DDR-RAM: More or less, it's SDRAM that can transmit data on both the rising and falling edges of the clock cycle. So, theoretically, it's twice as fast as the equivalent SDRAM (for example, the equivalent to 133 MHz SDRAM would be PC266 DDR-RAM). Also has lower latency and a wide bus bandwidth.
- RDRAM: Well, I'm just a tad bit biased against this company, given their disgraceful business tactics, but anyway... Extremely fast clock speeds, much more so than DDR-RAM, but also much narrower bus bandwidth and higher latency. Performs well under applications that don't require many random memory accesses (for example, movie encoding).

2) Given my views on RAMBUST, I'll pass on this question. Unless, of course, you go the better route and get an Athlon XP or one of the new Macs... then I'll have an answer.

3) They are more than likely the same thing.

4) Yes. Don't know about the brands, though.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

And not only that, there are four DDR chipsets for Pentium 4 processors in use: the Intel i845D, the SiS645, the VIA P4X266 and the VIA P4X266A chipsets. I'd be wary of either VIA chipset, as that company is in a legal battle with Intel over the design of the P4X266# chipsets. And I don't recommend the i845D, either, because of its weak performance compared to the non-Intel DDR chipsets for P4's. Which leaves the SiS645 as the P4 chipset of choice - provided that you can find legitimate 166MHz DDR333/PC2700 DDRRAM. [Most "DDR333"/"PC2700" DDRRAM modules on the market are simply 133MHz DDR266/PC2100 DDRRAM modules tweaked to run at an actual 166MHz (DDR333) speed.]

However, the only SiS645-based motherboard that I've personally seen is the Asus P4S333. It has six PCI slots, one AGP4X slot, and (I think) four DDR DIMM sockets.

 

[Audio-Me]

2 x 256MB Samsung PC-800 RDRAM

If you're going to be working on graphics, LCD monitor is not your ideal choice. I have a 19" flatscreen CRT monitor from Viewsonic (PF790) and it is wonderful. Given your budget, I recommend the following Viewsonic monitors: 22" CRT perfect flat screen P220f or P225f (clearer picture). If space is an issue, and you "must get a flat panel", VG175(17") or VG181(18").

 

[CaptBubba]

1.
SDRAM- not reccomended- this is outdated, plus doesn't work well with the p4

DDR-SDRAM- this is what I'd buy- This is a technology really coming into the light. Preformance is 10-30% better than regular SDRAM in just about everything.

RDRAM (AKA RAMBUS)- I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole- This is just something I hate. Its claims of super-high preformance have long been rebuked, but it is still decently fast. The issues i have with it is that it has to be installed in pairs (meaning 512MB will cost you over $140 (2x$72 for two 256 chips) compaired to $120 for PC2100 DDR), it preforms poorly compared to it's claims, especialy in the random access department, and it is being abandoned by Intel, it's ownly real supporter.

2. I'll take this question if you want to pass it then. Get DDR Ram, but make sure you do not get the new intel DDR chipset, get the SiS one. This is my personal choice: go AMD. It will be cheaper and will function better if you go DDR.

The only reason I bouth a SDRAM MB is because I had a lot of it I didn't want to go to waste (1GB).

3. That is the same thing. All P4s have 256K of L2 cache until you start talking about the new northwood modles that are just begining to come out. But then again, those are $500+ just for the CPU.

4. Depends on the monitor. my 17" veiwsonic has 16.2" veiwable.

 

[Mumrik]

raymondlin, why are you going for the P4?

 

[Ctn]

Doesnt DDR ram have higher latency over normal SDRAM?

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Audio&Me If you're going to be working on graphics, LCD monitor is not your ideal choice.

While this used to be a hard and fast rule, it's definitely not as true anymore. The latest flat-panel displays, especially the good ones, have excellent color accuracy. While not as accurate as a high-end CRT that has been properly calibrated (uncalibrated, CRTs are just as bad as some poor LCDs), they are extremely good and fine for anyone who doesn't need exact color matching.

Also, the topic of screen area came up in another thread. A 15" LCD has exactly 15" of accurate screen real estate. A 17" CRT has only around 15.1 or 15.2" of accurate screen real estate. When you see 15.9" or 16.2" quoted, that's the "expanded" measurement, which is not as accurate. When you take a CRT out of the box, you'll notice that the edges of the screen are black. You can use the controls on the monitor to expand the image right to the very edge -- this is the "15.9" measurement, which is usually not as accurate. The expansion generally distorts some part of the screen (sometimes it's minor, other times it's very noticeable). So depending on the quality of the monitor, you'll get a very good picture anywhere from 15.1" to 15.9" (or 15.2 to 16.2, etc.).

So... some 17" CRTs are the same exact size as a 15" LCD, some are slightly bigger. Also keep in mind that a 15.9" display is really only .5" bigger in each direction -- the amount of extra screen real estate is minimal.

Also, while older LCDs use to "ghost" which made them suffer for things like gaming, today's LCDs no longer have these problems.

I say all this because I'm a big fan of LCD displays. They are healthier (better on the eyes because of no flicker, they don't have any kind of questionable emissions), brighter and clearer at native resolutions, use much less energy, take up less space (you can even hang them on the wall), and if you have a digital vidcard you can get a direct digital connection.

The downsides of LCDs are 1) price -- they tend to be 2-3 times as much as a budget CRT of the same useable size ; and 2) non-native resolution modes -- when not at the preferred mode, they have to use pixel aliasing, and the image can get blurry.

 

[aeberbach]

A secret: The Apple Cinema Display works really well on a windows machine. So do the Apple keyboards, and mice (but who would want one of those mice?).

You need either the Gefen DVI-ADC converter, or the Dr. Bott "DVIator" and a GeForce 2 Ultra or GeForce 3 card with DVI output. The Hercules cards work fine, so do the Gainward and most others. And of course the monitor itself. Just plug it in the obvious way and use WHQL drivers from the Nvidia site. Wolfenstein is WAY too real on this monitor.

If you are building a PC yourself (and if you're asking questions about memory types I suggest you don't, at least not without some assistance in person from someone who has done it) I can recommend the Soyo Dragon+ mainboard - the onboard sound is OK and it's rock solid - the onboard LAN means you probably only need one card in the entire system, the video card. I bought my DDR memory from Mushkin, I have always found them to give great service and value. Seagate Barracuda IV drives are not as fast as some of the IBMs but you will appreciate the quiet and if using the Soyo's onboard RAID are plenty fast enough.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ctn Doesnt DDR ram have higher latency over normal SDRAM?

Not always, ctn. Normal PC2100/DDR266 DDRRAM memory has a CAS latency of 2.5 (clock cycles), but the majority of PC100 and PC133 SDRAM modules sold in retail stores have a CAS latency of 3!

That means that not only retail-store-bought SDRAM has a lower bandwidth to begin with, but also higher latency compared to a "normal" DDR module!

 

[Ctn]

Quote:

Originally posted by Eagle_Driver Not always, ctn. Normal PC2100/DDR266 DDRRAM memory has a CAS latency of 2.5 (clock cycles), but the majority of PC100 and PC133 SDRAM modules sold in retail stores have a CAS latency of 3! That means that not only retail-store-bought SDRAM has a lower bandwidth to begin with, but also higher latency compared to a "normal" DDR module!

Putting aside the fact that Im using cas2 sdram, I was referring to another kind of latency, not CAS latency. I read some time ago about the different ram types and came across an indepth comparison of ddr vs rdram and comparing that to the older sdram type. And what they found was that ddr is faster but when there is a "miss", the recovery penalty is far greater of that of sdram but alot less than rdram. In real world bechmarks they found ddr to be about 5-10% faster than normal cas3 sdram.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Ahhh, that "unknown" kind of latency, Ctn. And when PC133 SDRAM first came out, it was criticized by someone at HardwareCentral for having certain types of latency that are greater than either PC100 SDRAM or PC800 RDRAM (note that I said PC800 RDRAM, not the slower PC600 or PC700 RDRAM then available).

 

[CRESCENDOPOWER]

I am by no means an expert on computers, but here are some of my suggestions to you.
Make sure you do the research, and find a very good operating system.
LCD vs. CRT depends upon your budget, space demands, and tastes. Don't let anyone else decide for you which to choose. There are advantages, and disadvantages to both. Do the research, and decide for yourself.
Don't be scared to buy a nice heatsink cooler for your chipset. A case that provides a good movement of air flow is also a good idea.
Find out what type of warranties you are getting, and what you have to do not to void them.
Get advise from as many people as you can, and then decide for yourself. Some of the guys here at Head-Fi gave me some very good links to reputable manufacturers. Good luck!

 

[raymondlin]

I knew I can get loads of good info here and It looks like I won't be getting RD Ram, The reason I am getting a P4 is because I'll probably getting the computer from a mail order vendor from Dell or similar. I don't know how to built a computer myself and the friend who knows about it lives 200 miles away.

I have never like AMD chips because a friend of mine has a AMD base computer and it crashes constantly so I've been put off by it.

It depends where I'll be moving to next year, if it's Private accommodation, then I'll probably get a 19" CRT (currently using a 21" Formac one at work and it's wonderful). But if it's Dom then it'll prbably be TFT/LCD display.

One thing I have in loads is time, I'll spent all summer researching for the best one and could even built one. I have change the graphics card and add RAM to my PC but it's the power supply and HD connection that I have no clue about. So that's where I get stump if I built one and I have no idea what kind of motherboard will fit for certain chipsets.

 

[dhwilkin]

Quote:

raymondlin said... I have never like AMD chips because a friend of mine has a AMD base computer and it crashes constantly so I've been put off by it.

[LOTR quote]Now, don't be hasty[/LOTR quote]. Trust me, Intel-based machines can crash just as often as AMD-based machines. Crashes usually occur because of OS or other software screw-ups.

And a P4 still isn't necessary, ordering from a vendor. Look at this kick-@$$ machine I configured at MicronPC:

Millennia XP+ Xtreme (D100N)

Quantity: 1 Unit Price: $2,708.00 Sub Total: $2,708.00

Item Number Description
946984 Minitower w/Front USB
946997 AMD Athlon XP 1800+ with Quantispeed Architecture
946978 512MB PC2100 DDR Sdram - 2 Dimms
946963 120GB ATA-100 (2x60GB) Hard Drives (7200RPM)
946971 Integrated ATA-100 Controller
947025 1.44MB 3.5" Floppy Drive Integrated
946967 16x48x Variable Speed DVD-ROM
988255 24x10x40x CDRW w/1 CD rewritable
952281 64MB DDR nVidia Geforce3 TI500 AGP Card w/TV-out
947000 Studio DV 1394 Firewire Video Editing PCI card
946621 17.4in MicronPC LCD Flat Panel Display (17.4in viewable,.27mm dp)
947020 Microsoft Internet Keyboard
952279 Microsoft 5 Button Optical Intellimouse
947031 Customer Selects No Micron University
947023 No software ordered
946982 Norton Antivirus 2002
992001 Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional
946995 Integrated Dolby Digital 5.1 Sound
946613 Customer does not select Premium Speaker
946947 Customer selects no speakers
947012 Customer Selects No Modem
947027 Customer Selects No Zip
946993 Integrated 10/100 Ethernet Controller
947007 nVidia nForce 420 Crush BIOS
947050 Customer selects no Asset Tag
946950 DT Next Business Day On-Site 1st Yr
947192 SS Priority Access Technical Support 1st-3rd Yr