[Stillhart]

Thanks, I appreciate your opinion / advice. If there is a Yggy or GMB there I'll make sure I try one/both out.
I must admit you and a few others have got me interested in R2R and it will be great to try one out as the sound signature you guys report / talk about sounds like the type of sound / tone I would like.
I know I keep going on about it but the Optimal Transient XD filter on my Q-DAC sounds like it does something similar as it removes digital ringing. As a filter it doesn't measure well but it sounds so much smoother and nowhere near as clynical / edgy as the filter that does measure well which is meant to be more like CD sound. It's so easy to listen too, it's the closest thing I've heard to the analogue warmth and character of vinyl but using digital. This is why the R2Rs interest me.

 
It's hard explaining to people the difference.  It's something that's hard to grasp until you've heard it.  For me, I like to use the example of the crash cymbals.  On a something like the Sabre DAC, it sounds almost like someone crumpling up a plastic bag.  It is very digital sounding and sounds nothing like an actual cymbal.  
 
Like go here and listen to the "S" sound:  http://www.speaknspell.co.uk/speaknspell.html  You get the idea that it's supposed to be an S but nobody would confuse that with someone actually saying the letter S.
 
R2R is like a real voice and D-S is like a Speak-n-Spell.  You might have a filter that makes your Speak-n-Spell less harsh, but it will never sound like a real person talking.  We just don't ever notice because we're so used to that crappy D-S sound.  

 

[x RELIC x]

^^^^ this ^^^^

 

[s7uart]

It's hard explaining to people the difference.  It's something that's hard to grasp until you've heard it.  For me, I like to use the example of the crash cymbals.  On a something like the Sabre DAC, it sounds almost like someone crumpling up a plastic bag.  It is very digital sounding and sounds nothing like an actual cymbal.  

Like go here and listen to the "S" sound:  http://www.speaknspell.co.uk/speaknspell.html  You get the idea that it's supposed to be an S but nobody would confuse that with someone actually saying the letter S.

R2R is like a real voice and D-S is like a Speak-n-Spell.  You might have a filter that makes your Speak-n-Spell less harsh, but it will never sound like a real person talking.  We just don't ever notice because we're so used to that crappy D-S sound.  

Thanks, what you describe makes perfect sense, this is why I'm interested to try / hear one, who knows I could become an R2R convert by the end of the weekend : D

 

[AxelCloris]

Thanks, what you describe makes perfect sense, this is why I'm interested to try / hear one, who knows I could become an R2R convert by the end of the weekend : D

 
I will warn you, it's a dangerous slope.

 

[sahmen]

   
I will warn you, it's a dangerous slope.

Fair enough, but I am not sure whether "dangerous slope" might be considered a "warning" to an audiophile, or an "enticement"... Can you really tell the difference, or distinguish between the two?

 

[Stillhart]

  Fair enough, but I am not sure whether "dangerous slope" might be considered a "warning" to an audiophile, or an "enticement"... Can you really tell the difference, or distinguish between the two?

 
I think the difference depends on how much money is in your wallet...

 

[aamefford]

   
I will warn you, it's a dangerous slope.

 
 

  Fair enough, but I am not sure whether "dangerous slope" might be considered a "warning" to an audiophile, or an "enticement"... Can you really tell the difference, or distinguish between the two?

It's not THAT bad...  The Dac-19 price of entry is not horrible for a good SE dac, and it is pretty darned good.  I'm not jonesing to upgrade from it.  Yet......

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

   
I'd bet money that Dr. Cavalli knows as well. It's a safe bet.

 
True, but I have no interest in pestering Alex with tags...
 
 
 
 
 
........@warrenpchi

 

[logscool]

I think I'm between the DAC-19 and the Geek Pulse XFI w/ LPS. I haven't ever heard an R2R DAC but I am certainly not convinced that R2R is the hands down better technology. It seems like there are a lot of people who haven't even heard an R2R dac and are already claiming it is the superior technology all of the time regardless of implementation or chip. I also don't know if I'll like the sound of one better or not. Really just wish I could try both.

 

[doctorjazz]

Last time I heard the Hugo was at Canjam paired with the LC, actually.  It sounded fantastic.  I really like the DAC in the Hugo; for a DS DAC, it sounds great.  But it's supremely overpriced IMHO.  Something like the 2Qute will give you the same DAC for much cheaper.  Something like the GMB or DAC-19 will give you R2R goodness for even cheaper than that.  Or if you really want to spend $2300 on a DAC, just get a Yggy and know that you'll probably never need to buy another DAC again.


I don't think anyone on Head-fi will recommend a laptop/phone as a source if you can afford to buy something better.  At least grab a GO450 or AQ Dragonfly or something...

Thanks Stillhart, that was quick

I'm UK based and after looking at landed costs for the new GMB it worked out around £1050 which = $1616 using today's conversion rate.
The Chord Hugo sells for £1400 here ($2155) or £1000 ($1540) for the 2 Qute.

You can probably see why I'm asking the question, adding UK VAT and import fees drastically bump up the price of the Schiit and Audio GD dacs, this is why the Yggy would be a no go for me, I think James priced one up once and it was very expensive to import.

Thanks again, I'll be trying out the Chord DACs on Sunday at London CanJam, can't wait

* Edit * The below is intended for James.

I had a GO450 before my Audiolab Q-DAC as my interim DAC, for a little USB DAC/amp I thought it was fantastic, amazing sound for such a small device, my only gripe was that it was ultra power hunger being a Class A amp and it ate through my Android phone battery for fun, it required 0.7A power from the USB from memory my Sony Tablet refused to power it as it wanted too much current. Other Advantages of the Q-DAC was a SE line level out and 1 x Optical and 1 x Digital Coax input, plus I'm my opinion it sounded better, especially when experimenting with the built in filters. Hope that helps

TheGeek Out was not designed to be portable...it is for usb use, PC, laptop, etc. There are kludges to get it to work that way...using an external battery, y cable, posted early on at the dedicated thread (M-I-K-E-Y posted some of these, if I remember correctly). The V2+ version is supposed to sound better, not run as hot, and had a built in battery, making it a portable option. Think they are good sounding, good you over "until the real thing comes along..."

 

[Stillhart]

  I think I'm between the DAC-19 and the Geek Pulse XFI w/ LPS. I haven't ever heard an R2R DAC but I am certainly not convinced that R2R is the hands down better technology. It seems like there are a lot of people who haven't even heard an R2R dac and are already claiming it is the superior technology all of the time regardless of implementation or chip. I also don't know if I'll like the sound of one better or not. Really just wish I could try both.

 
I think the important thing is to look at what folks who HAVE heard it say.  So far, and please correct me if I'm wrong, I've not seen a single person on Head-fi who tried R2R and didn't find it superior.  Certainly you can get bad implementations (my $100 GDA-600 comes to mind) but the $800 DAC-19 is a very good DAC, especially for the money.
 
On the other hand, I've heard pretty mixed reviews of the Geek Pulse line.  And isn't the Xfi + LPS like way more expensive than the DAC-19?
 
But anyways, yeah, I respect your skepticism.  There needs to be more of it around here.  If you could make it out to a Canjam or meet, I'm sure there will plenty of GMB's floating around soon...

 

[DeLuX]

Thanks Stillhart, that was quick

I'm UK based and after looking at landed costs for the new GMB it worked out around £1050 which = $1616 using today's conversion rate.
The Chord Hugo sells for £1400 here ($2155) or £1000 ($1540) for the 2 Qute.

You can probably see why I'm asking the question, adding UK VAT and import fees drastically bump up the price of the Schiit and Audio GD dacs, this is why the Yggy would be a no go for me, I think James priced one up once and it was very expensive to import.

Thanks again, I'll be trying out the Chord DACs on Sunday at London CanJam, can't wait

* Edit * The below is intended for James.

I had a GO450 before my Audiolab Q-DAC as my interim DAC, for a little USB DAC/amp I thought it was fantastic, amazing sound for such a small device, my only gripe was that it was ultra power hunger being a Class A amp and it ate through my Android phone battery for fun, it required 0.7A power from the USB from memory my Sony Tablet refused to power it as it wanted too much current. Other Advantages of the Q-DAC was a SE line level out and 1 x Optical and 1 x Digital Coax input, plus I'm my opinion it sounded better, especially when experimenting with the built in filters. Hope that helps

You could always ask Audio GD to declare a lesser value, pretty sure Shiit won't do that though

 

[atsq17]

   
I think the important thing is to look at what folks who HAVE heard it say.  So far, and please correct me if I'm wrong, I've not seen a single person on Head-fi who tried R2R and didn't find it superior.  Certainly you can get bad implementations (my $100 GDA-600 comes to mind) but the $800 DAC-19 is a very good DAC, especially for the money.
 
On the other hand, I've heard pretty mixed reviews of the Geek Pulse line.  And isn't the Xfi + LPS like way more expensive than the DAC-19?
 
But anyways, yeah, I respect your skepticism.  There needs to be more of it around here.  If you could make it out to a Canjam or meet, I'm sure there will plenty of GMB's floating around soon...

 
Tried both before. Currently own XFi, Infinity and LPS4. 
 
Used to own DAC-19 DSP which I ran with an Audiophilleo2 and it sounded amazing. 
 
I concur that the DAC-19 had a great natural sound that would suffice as end-game. 
 
Having said that, the Pulse XFi and Infinity have a technical superiority and their tone is quite natural sounding and pleasant even if not as much as the DAC-19. 
 
From a value perspective, the DAC-19 is excellent as the XFi + LPS will set you back at least $1000USD if you find an amazing second hand bargain. More if you don't. 
 
The infinity will set you back a minimum of $1000USD without LPS and I'd recommend the LPS to maximize the ability of the Pulse units. 
 
Having said that, the Pulse units have a very useable amp unit that you can use until you receive your LC or when you are between amps. 
 
Ultimately, neither should be dismissed offhand and if it is at all possible, both should be tried as they both have something good to offer. 
 
I am perfectly happy with my Infinity unit although I'd consider trying the new DAC 19 with USB upgrade if one showed up at a great second hand price. Then a proper shootout would be on the cards. 

 

[Youth]

You could always ask Audio GD to declare a lesser value, pretty sure Shiit won't do that though

 
Can you explain what you mean by akking them to declare lesser value? I'm most likely going to order something from Audio GD very soon. I'm also gonna pay VAT 

 

[doctorjazz]

I'm off the belief that the DAC chip I'd one of many variables that affect the sound, and in the end the IMPLEMENTATION is the main factor in SQ. Case in point...I have both the Pono and DX90 DAPS, just learned they use the same DAC chip, a Sabre. Use the Pono ask the time, hardly ever use the DX90, sounds dry and uninvolving by comparison. I had old R2R dacs when they were new, found them warm but lacking in detail (these weren't TOTL like High quality Theta, and probably suffered in comparison to my analog rig, a Linn LP12). I find my Geek Out Special Edition very musical, involving AND detailed, while the sound of my R2R Mojo Mystique is also rich and involving. Many different paths to take to your destination, said the guru...