[Gallaine]

Quote:

Originally posted by fyrfytrhoges here's a good one, the usps or ems in japan tries to deliver the package to audiocubes but requests money for import taxes, audiocubes refuses to pay the taxes and now my headphones sit in limbo somewhere until someone (who knows who) decides if they have to or don't have to pay taxes, meanwhile i sit here with no headphones. tell me how much the f'n taxes are and i'll pay the damn thing so i can get my f'n headphones back. none of this was my fault anyways, it's stax problem from the beginning. so meanwhile i sit here with no electro stats after paying 36.00 out of my pocket to ship a defective product back until an argument over some **** about taxes can be sorted out, does it never end???? rant off.........

I feel your pain. I recently sent my 404s back to EIFL in Japan for repair after only 4 or 5 months of problem free operation (I kept them another month or so trying to figure out what the problem was).

Fortunately, in my case, I didn't have any problems with customs and the turn-around was about 5 weeks. So far, they have worked without any additional problems.

Hang in there...

 

[Music Fanatic]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador That's for sure. Man, whenever I swap over to my dynamic cans the sounds is SO much worse that I can almost not listen to it any more.

In what way do you find it inferior?

 

[Music Fanatic]

Quote:

Originally posted by Music Fanatic In what way do you find it inferior? (This is a serious question, but I am somewhat hampered in understanding the electrostatic cult because I've never heard electrostatic 'phones)

 

[Music Fanatic]

I'm sorry, I can't edit my messages and get some "error message" when I try to do so. This is the question I wanted to pose to Doug:

In what way do you find dynamic phones inferior? (This is a serious question, but I am somewhat hampered in understanding the electrostatic cult because I've never heard electrostatic 'phones)

 

[Snake]

Detail. Speed. Like the ability to hear both the impact of the bass instrument, the instrument body's sound and the reverbation of the recording room (in really well recorded music). The ability (and you get used to it real quick) to differentiate the sound of the pluck of a string, the sound of the string and the string instrument body's sound created from that. A bass that seems to track everything.

Great dynamics are excellent, superb. But, no matter how excellent, they still have one difference over electrostats. Driver mass. No matter how much you try you cannot seriously reduce the driver mass to infinitessimal levels, and the driver returns to its "zero" point through the efforts of its spider. These 2 things limit speed - the ability to respond to changes in signal.

Electrostats, in comparison, have a driver of almost no mass (in comparison) and the driver returns to "zero" point by electrical forces, push / pulled under all circumstances, fully controlled.

On a great electrostat the driver seems to "disappear" - you stop getting a sense of something making music, the music just...happens. This may be because, on the great (modern) designs the weight of the diaphram can end up less than the air actually being moved by the diaphram, so in essence it is disappearing indeed (when speed and force are both factored into the equation).

You should try to get a listen, can or speaker, if you can. Not everyone likes the electrostat sound, but it does seem popular and for many rather captivating. It is a "drier" sound than dynamics usually because of the lower mass driver.

 

[darkclouds]

Blah... I like Stax and I also like senns. I just invested in a Stealth for the Senns. Stax are great but they're not perfect. Not everyone stops after Stax. Even worse, I'm starting to think about a pair of Sony R10

If I get the R10s, my friends are really going to think I've gone way over the deep end.

 

[Guss2]

After that darkclouds,you mod the crap out of that SCD-1 for good measure.Now we're talking.Gary.

 

[Swampwalker]

"On a great electrostat the driver seems to "disappear" - you stop getting a sense of something making music, the music just...happens. This may be because, on the great (modern) designs the weight of the diaphram can end up less than the air actually being moved by the diaphram, so in essence it is disappearing indeed (when speed and force are both factored into the equation)."

Sorry, Snake, but AFAIK, this is the audio equivalent of an urban legend. I love my stax, but the air they move is essentially weightless. The diaphraghms are very light, but not lighter than air. The volume of air inside the cups is quite small, you see, so they can't move that much volume and very little weight. Its too late for me to drag out my college science books and figure it out, but if this discussion is still raging when I get from a few days of R&R, I'll crack out the calculator and see what I come up with.

 

[darkclouds]

Quote:

Originally posted by Guss2 After that darkclouds,you mod the crap out of that SCD-1 for good measure.Now we're talking.Gary.

You first Gary. Then tell me how the water is that far deep out there.

"Electrostatic" seems to be the buzz word around here... especially for some of the newer members. The truth is, you, whoever you are, may not even like it. It's as magical as a good dynamic set up, just with different offerrings.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Quote:

Originally posted by Music Fanatic In what way do you find dynamic phones inferior? (This is a serious question, but I am somewhat hampered in understanding the electrostatic cult because I've never heard electrostatic 'phones)

I guess Snake already answered some, but I'll throw in my experience to answer the question. Keep in mind a couple of things: I have never heard a single solitary Stax amp in my life. I am only basing my thoughts on the KGSS running the SR404 and SR007 cans. I don't have anything superior than a Creek OBH-11 to do direct comparisons with to ensure accuracy of my thought. (although I will likely have three dynamic amps coming my way within the next month, one of which is quite expensive and highly regarded.) I only have the Sony CD3K on hand to validate my thoughts, but will rely a little bit upon the Senn 600s somewhat since I owned them for more than a couple of years. My experience with the R10 was limited to about 5 minutes using the EAR HP4 with some tall tubes Hirsch loved at the time, so my opinion here is based upon that very brief, yet very telling exposure. (More to follow.)

OK, why do I presonally prefer electrostatics over dynamic cans? It's rather simple: I prefer speed, transient attacks, details, and incredible dynamics that they bring. A trumpet, sax, and many other wind instruments produce a super shapr leading edge of sound that I have never before heard done so accurately. So far, in terms of what I look for in headphones, I have never heard anything that comes even close to what I am hearing with these cans. I also prefer the taut and punchy bass these cans put out. While the impact is lessened to an extent, the extension is not. My first test of their bass extension was a track of music I used at Hirsch's. It has a steady bass note that flows throughout the entire song and is quite steady. When I listened to the R10s is was not there at all. It disappeared completely, yet using the same amp and a pair of ATW2002 on hand I could easily pick out the bass line. Each switch made it disappear or reappear, depending upon the cans used. With the Omega II or SR-404 this note is not only there, but very well portrayed.

Now, I believe that the R10 is quite capable of better bass than I heard, so until later this year will await final judgement upon these cans in my book. I also have yet to hear the Omega II played thru a Blue Hawaii/Weebl, so the final verdict on just how much bass and impact it can put out is, again, awaiting my return to the states where I will setup an audition of smokey's Weebl. I trust that these cans will go a level or two higher upon hearing them with the Weebl. The same goes for hearing the R10s using the Supra and possibly the Supra X and SDS.


Are these cans or this amp for everybody? Hmm, I doubt it. Not everyone likes neutral over colored; details over musicallity; not bass accuracy over bass impact. Not everyone will like any single thing ever made. We all hear differently, and we all prefer different things. For me, to date, I have not heard anything that could rival what the electrostatic headphones have to offer.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Quote:

Originally posted by Music Fanatic In what way do you find it inferior?

Almost forgot, I will also try to spend some time with the BlockHead and Senn 650s later this year also. Plus, during the writing times for SoundStage! articles I plan on getting my hands on some rather nice dynamic amps this fall , making the comparison to the electrostatics even more precise due to the added experience. But, at nearly $4000 for a BlockHead it would have to be quite a bit better than the Stax units to make it worth while.

 

[zeplin]

i have only heard a few electro stats during my time and i can't say what i really think about them because my experience is pretty limited. but i have a question for your electro stat people...
after experimenting with quite a lot of dynamic cans, i have concluded that my Senn 650's(also previous 600's) and Ety's are by far my favorites. i think this is because of their great speed relative to other dynamic cans. the higher frequencies as well as the bass seem to just flow effortlessly with so much speed and accuracy with my two cans. not many other dynamic phones accomplish this as well as the ety's can. this, imo, is a deadly combo.
anyways, does my liking these types of dynamic cans make me a perfect contender for electro stats? or, in other words, how much alike is the overall general electro stat sound similar to the 650's and ety's? i would really like to try the baby orpheus someday and i believe very strongly that i'd love them for the simple fact that i read many of you stat people saying phones like these simply dissappear. of course stats are way out of my price range, but hey, i can have a goal to work towards, right? right?
please feel free to answer my question with a NO...you will hate electro stats! it will make me and my wallet feel a lot better and more secure

to hell with this website and this whole damn hobby

 

[Snake]

Quote:

Originally posted by Swampwalker "On a great electrostat the driver seems to "disappear" - you stop getting a sense of something making music, the music just...happens. This may be because, on the great (modern) designs the weight of the diaphram can end up less than the air actually being moved by the diaphram, so in essence it is disappearing indeed (when speed and force are both factored into the equation)." Sorry, Snake, but AFAIK, this is the audio equivalent of an urban legend. I love my stax, but the air they move is essentially weightless. The diaphraghms are very light, but not lighter than air. The volume of air inside the cups is quite small, you see, so they can't move that much volume and very little weight. Its too late for me to drag out my college science books and figure it out, but if this discussion is still raging when I get from a few days of R&R, I'll crack out the calculator and see what I come up with.

You are probably right. But remember to factor into the computations both front and rear air movements; electrostats are true dipoles.

 

[fyrfytrhoges]

now saturday, and stax headphones sitting somewhere in the nether regions of japan, still no word from audiocubes after emailing them yesterday, i have a feeling this is going to be a grueling process of attrition. so much for paying the 35.00 dollars for express mail, i could have sailed it over on my own boat for as long as it's going to take them to sort out the situation over the import taxes it seems...... it never ends......

 

[Music Fanatic]

Well, to be fair to audiocubes, the messages first go through Boston and then to Osaka -- and yesterday was Saturday in Japan.