[cn11]

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@cn11 How is the synergy between your SM3 and your Headstage Arrow?
 
Thanks for any and all help!

Actually for some reason I like them straight out of my Sony X better than with the Arrow. They're the only earphone/headphone that exhibits this trait, so I'm a bit perplexed. I think shigzeo would have some better insight into why they are so good purely on their own (though I am not sure if he's had a chance to listen to the Arrow specifically yet).

 

[ericp10]

X2 @ cn11, but the SM3 doesn't sound bad with some of the cheaper Fiio amps, especially connected to the iPods.
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Actually for some reason I like them straight out of my Sony X better than with the Arrow. They're the only earphone/headphone that exhibits this trait, so I'm a bit perplexed. I think shigzeo would have some better insight into why they are so good purely on their own (though I am not sure if he's had a chance to listen to the Arrow specifically yet).

 

[violinvirtuoso]

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X2 @ cn11, but the SM3 doesn't sound bad with some of the cheaper Fiio amps, especially connected to the iPods.

 

It sounds worse using the Headstage Arrow, but is not bad using a Fiio. It just keeps getting stranger.

 

[cn11]

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cn11 ... Not sure who tstarn06 is, or why you needed to post that, but nope, that's not the case for me. Most SM3 users and I don't share the same POV on the treble, I guess. However, I do know Shigzeo, in his extensive review, does point out that the SM3s are missing that sparkle in the treble area. And there is one other person I know who has tried the SM3 (she never owned them) and agreed with that assessment as well (shared it with me privately). So no, it was not a fit/seal issue, especially since I used the SM3s with UM56 custom sleeves on occasion, and the sparkle was still missing from an otherwise excellent IEM. Had the SM3s offered that as part of their sound sig, I would still have them here with me. Because other than that, I really did like them.

 
Right you are, Tom. I am fully aware of that other opinion too, because I'm the one who shipped them over for her to demo. Of course she sent me her in depth observations as well. But as I'm sure you can deduce, one more person does not nullify a 'majority'. Besides, she had fit issues as it turned out, and could only hear the full measure of their sound if she physically sat there holding them more fully in place. I'm just saying that the majority of owners are quite content with the treble, and some have said they present the top end the best of any IEM they've ever heard. I fall more into that camp myself, since nothing I've heard can touch the combination of smooth sound and incredible detail at the same time. Quite a magical combination if you ask me. 
 

 

[music_4321]

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I must say that in spite of all the attacking of eric's post style, and profession (which is pretty repulsive by its own merit, music), I find his observations some of the most insightful and spot on around here. I for one am not put off by his writing style and passionate conveying of his impressions.
 
Also music, you should be cautious of your political discussions. It's strictly forbidden in the rules here on HF, and you never know who you will offend by discussing such topics in the manner you have. It borders on a reportable offense. 
 
And yes, let's get back to discussing the SM3.

I commend you for a thoroughly unbiased post & a heart-felt piece of advice - I'll be deeply indebted to you for a long time to come.
 
May I also add it is indeed remarkable to see just how much you do care for our wider community. Our sorry world, and not just Head-Fi, needs more people like you.

 

[slaters70]

Good for you. However, unlike the PFEs, which you thoroughly trashed (once calling them the worst purchase you ever made in IEMs) while 99 percent of the people liked them (if you recall), I never have trashed the SM3s, only said they were too warm for my tastes, and the treble was not the type I find most enjoyable. I felt another IEM was more to my liking. Not too long ago, you were waxing poetic over the MC MDs, and before that, the FX700s, and before that, the IE8s. So please, spare me the "magical" aspects of the SM3. I am glad you apparently have finally found an IEM that suits your tastes, much as I have found mine (at $250 less, lucky me). 
 
So I am so thrilled you are a very happy little camper with the SM3s. As I said, and you ignored, Shigzeo, who does like the SM3s very much, did note their lack of sparkle on the treble side of the house in his review, so I am not alone at least. I actually liked the SM3s, just not enough to keep them for reasons that I have outlined pretty clearly.
 
Oh, and by the way, I really didn't ask you whether the SM3s offered a magical combination or not (re last sentence in your post).
 
Quote:

 
Right you are, Tom. I am fully aware of that other opinion too, because I'm the one who shipped them over for her to demo. Of course she sent me her in depth observations as well. But as I'm sure you can deduce, one more person does not nullify a 'majority'. Besides, she had fit issues as it turned out, and could only hear the full measure of their sound if she physically sat there holding them more fully in place. I'm just saying that the majority of owners are quite content with the treble, and some have said they present the top end the best of any IEM they've ever heard. I fall more into that camp myself, since nothing I've heard can touch the combination of smooth sound and incredible detail at the same time. Quite a magical combination if you ask me. 
 

 

[BaboonGuy]

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I am glad you apparently have finally found an IEM that suits your tastes, much as I have found mine (at $250 less, lucky me). 

Sorry missed this earlier, but which IEM is this?

 

[cn11]

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Good for you. However, unlike the PFEs, which you thoroughly trashed (once calling them the worst purchase you ever made in IEMs) while 99 percent of the people liked them (if you recall), I never have trashed the SM3s, only said they were too warm for my tastes, and the treble was not the type I find most enjoyable. I felt another IEM was more to my liking. Not too long ago, you were waxing poetic over the MC MDs, and before that, the FX700s, and before that, the IE8s. So please, spare me the "magical" aspects of the SM3. I am glad you apparently have finally found an IEM that suits your tastes, much as I have found mine (at $250 less, lucky me). 
 
So I am so thrilled you are a very happy little camper with the SM3s. As I said, and you ignored, Shigzeo, who does like the SM3s very much, did note their lack of sparkle on the treble side of the house in his review, so I am not alone at least. I actually liked the SM3s, just not enough to keep them for reasons that I have outlined pretty clearly.
 
Oh, and by the way, I really didn't ask you whether the SM3s offered a magical combination or not (re last sentence in your post).
 

 

Tom-
Well, for someone who's only been on HF since May of this year, you sure have detailed experiential info to share from that conversation of ours a couple years back. That was as tstarn06, buddy. Just sayin'. Don't know who tstarn is?.... doubtful. 

 

[slaters70]

Guess I am a natural-born researcher, is all. Love that search function.
 
And glad to see you duck my observation that at least one credible, experienced reviewer, Shigzeo, commented that the SM3s lacked sparkle, in his opinion. It's right at the end of his review on his site, in fact.
 
Baboonguy. It's the Fischer Audio DBA-02, an IEM that several people (not all, but most) find to be a very good bargain at $145 (on sale right now). I had both, at the same time, and finally decided I favored the DBAs more. Call me crazy, I guess I don't have enough sophistication to appreciate the SM3s. Which is fine with me. The extra cash in my pocket paid for a ZuneHD and almost half of a 64GB Touch. Not bad all in all.
 
If you haven't, check LFF's review thread.
 

 

[cn11]

Quote:

I commend you for a thoroughly unbiased post & a heart-felt piece of advice - I'll be deeply indebted to you for a long time to come.
 
May I also add it is indeed remarkable to see just how much you do care for our wider community. Our sorry world, and not just Head-Fi, needs more people like you.

I am thrilled I can be such an enlightening influence for you. 

 

[cn11]

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Guess I am a natural-born researcher, is all. Love that search function.
 
And glad to see you duck my observation that at least one credible, experienced reviewer, Shigzeo, commented that the SM3s lacked sparkle, in his opinion. It's right at the end of his review on his site, in fact.
 
Baboonguy. It's the Fischer Audio DBA-02, an IEM that several people (not all, but most) find to be a very good bargain at $145 (on sale right now). I had both, at the same time, and finally decided I favored the DBAs more. Call me crazy, I guess I don't have enough sophistication to appreciate the SM3s. Which is fine with me. The extra cash in my pocket paid for a ZuneHD and almost half of a 64GB Touch. Not bad all in all.
 
If you haven't, check LFF's review thread.
 

I never said that anyone is wrong for their observations that the SM3's are lacking treble, just noted they're in the minority. You are the one who always points out that someone is in the minority for their views and then proceeds to berate them, insinuating that they're hearing is suspect. I honestly can never figure out why you feel this need to 'sway' everyone into your camp. Are you that insecure of a person? Gee Tom, it really must be miserable being you. You're also apparently great at pulling things out of context, because I am equally familiar with shigzeo's review of the SM3's, and in addition to commenting that the treble is not as pronounced as some phones such as the FX500, he goes on to say they're the closest thing to perfection he's heard, saying that Earsonics hit a home run with them. 
 
Also, I'm truly happy that you've found your audio nirvana, not in the SM3, and have been able to save so much cash. Perhaps now you can go gamble it away at the poker table. 

 

[rawrster]

It never ends From an outsider's point of view (being me) it seems like you do have a problem with people enjoying their SM3 and at the same time not jumping to get a pair of the DBA-02. Also regardless of who that reviewer is (even if it shigzeo who has an opinion that I regard highly) at the end of the day it is just one person's opinion. Lack of sparkle is depending on user preference. Eric, dweaver, cn11 and I'm sure a bunch others like the treble on the SM3 and find it suitable so why discredit their opinions about the treble. It seems to be that this is just personal preference as some of them do prefer dynamics until the SM3 came along. You just happen to enjoy phones that have more treble emphasis than some people who have the SM3.
 
Also you seem to be enjoying the DBA-02. That's great. It's time to move on from the SM3 then.

 

[Bennyboy71]

I just did a survey on myself and unanimously agreed I love the SM3.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

I just did a survey on myself and unanimously agreed I love the SM3.

What else are you doing to yourself right now Benny?  I know I'm going to regret asking this.....

 

[average_joe]

My take: SM3 treble is very good, detailed, and realistic sounding.  It does not overpower the rest of the spectrum, and actually does seem like it tapers off.  The EM3 Pro has a little more treble volume and the Tesla T1 has much more.  Not much more in the way the FX700 had to my ears, but much more.  When I compared the FX700 to the SM3, the FX700 sounded like it had an artificial boost and because of that emphasis, did not sound a liquid and natural as the SM3.  The CK10 treble sounded metallic to my ears in comparison (as midoo said long ago but I didn't notice until A/Bing with the SM3).  The CK90 Pro, which I still have, doesn't sound that way for some reason.
 
I think many of the "audiophile" or popular IEMs/headphones that are expensive have an either accentuated or very present treble, which is in contrast to the SM3.  I think it is something you could get used to if you spend enough time with them and that is the new "normal."
 
My experience with sources/amps for the SM3 is that the source is the biggest factor.  Meaning, the SM3 is ultra resolving and any improvement in the signal path (DAC) will be noticed.  Where the greatest differences occur to me is the way the space is presented.  For example, I just sold my Rx and picked up a T3.  I sold the Rx because, while great with some of my IEMs, I liked the presentation and form factor of the Arrow better and my Rx wasn't getting used. 
 
The T3 isn't as spacious as my Arrow with the SM3.  I wouldn't say the difference is large, but for me, noticeable when A/Bing.  If I were to grab one one or the other and just listen after not listening to anything I wouldn't know which one I grabbed.  On the flip side, if I use my iPod HPO vs. the line out I would notice a difference when critically listening.  The differences consist of subtle things like the space between instruments, sharpness of notes, textures, etc.  For me, the resolution of the DAC and the amp stage make the biggest difference.  Playing around with capacitors, I think that the capacitors (many amps have capacitors in the signal path to remove DC offset voltages of DACs and amps as well as for protection) combined with amp circuit design also make a difference.  That is where the improvement lies for me; your experience may vary with different players etc.