[EddieE]

I think the HD800 fail on pretty much every front bar soundstage, they are simply terrible headphones to my ears.

The HD650 remain one of the best dynamic headphones I've heard. Can't use the voting buttons on my phone but that's my view.

 

[dallan]

Quote:

It's true 650 prices have gone up, and I do agree, as you imply, that it's partly because the 800 has failed to blow the 650 out of the water quite as thoroughly as some people were expecting (not that that's entirely relevant, since they're in quite different price ranges). 
All that said, I can't vote because I've never heard the 800. I'm just going on the aggregate of opinion.   
 
Then,
 
 
 
Thanks, Finnegans. I much prefer this kind of explanatory post to the "800 blows 650 out of the water" variety. To me that means absolutely nothing.

 

My blows them out of the water comment was a response to this quote by you, so sorry if you don't like the variety of quotes that you use.

 

[LugBug1]

Quote:

Quote:Originally Posted by pp312 


"Thanks, Finnegans. I much prefer this kind of explanatory post to the "800 blows 650 out of the water" variety. To me that means absolutely nothing.   In fact you've pretty much defined my reasons for sticking with the 650. I was slightly tempted by the 800 , then even more by the LCD-2 , but in the end I decided the 650 was ideal for my purposes (not to mention the sweet spot for diminishing returns). I have a mixed bag of recordings, some from the 60 s and even 50 s, lots of MP3 s (not all 320 , I confess)...just a very mixed bag, and I need a phone that won't emphasise the quality differences, will help the worst sound good but still bring out the virtues of the best, and in my best judgement that's the 650. I don't want a phone that sounds brilliant on demonstration material but emphasises every fault in less than wonderful records--and when I say less than wonderful I'm not just talking about archival material as many new recordings are far from ideal. I want a balanced, forgiving, sweet sounding phone, and if it doesn't have the laser-like clarity or holographic imaging of flagship phones I'm prepared to make that sacrifice. Neither do I want two headphones, as I simply don't believe in that particular approach (and I can't afford it anyway). So I'm kind of grateful that the 650 exists, as it fits my needs exactly, and I never feel when using it that I'm really missing anything. Thank you, Sennheiser."


To me people who make an evaluation of a headphone they don't have any experience with is much more meaningless than someone telling me one headphone "blows another headphone out of the water". If you don't have experience with a headphone, your evaluation of it is useless.

At no point is pp312 making an evaluation of the HD800's in this post. He is only quoting what can be read about them on this thread and many others, mainly that they seem to be fantastic phones with a certain source. What he is also pointing out, and I'm in complete agreement with him is that If we already have the 650's and are looking for an even better hp with the same attributes and versatility then we are not going to find it with the 800's, this can be evaluated "generally" without hearing them, from what has been posted on reviews etc. I'm not going to vote, because I havent heard the 800's and I'm sure pp312 didn't vote either. So chillax..

 

[MacedonianHero]

I own both, yes the 800's blow the 650s out of the water.  Kept the 650s but rarely use them and then it only reaffirms that i need to put the 800s back on.  The 650s also have an expensive recable-zu mobius and run out of an amp that was geared to them-the Zana Deux, they still don't compete.

I owned the HD650s...and completely agree that my HD800s best the HD650s in most every way (including comfort...I couldn't stand the HD650s on my head for more than 30 minutes).

As immitbiker mentioned, I too preferred the HD600s to the 650s and would have likely held on to them longer if I had bought them instead of the HD650s.

My HD650s had the SAA Equinox aftermarket cable and my HD800s have the DHC aftermarket cabl FWIW

 

[Ra97oR]

I heard both, where the HD650 is the type of phone that does a pretty decent job with any kind of music you throw at it... somewhat like the D7000, both haven't got any clear faults, sounds smooth on the ears.

Where the HD800 have that slightly bright treble and without the bass hump, it can be hard to listen to with some music recording. The HD800 is far more detailed than the 650s though, and to me the HD650 (and the D7k to a extend) is nothing really special. On the other hand the HD800 have that crystal clear sound and good soundstage that I do like. However I do prefer the T1 or my current phones to 800s.

Or the LCD-2 if they have a more airy soundstage.... One can hope.

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

I heard both, where the HD650 is the type of phone that does a pretty decent job with any kind of music you throw at it... somewhat like the D7000, both haven't got any clear faults, sounds smooth on the ears.

Both have very clear faults. The 650 is extremely uncomfortable, clamping one's head. Also, there is an obvious veil in the upper midrange which was supposed to be fixed from the 600's, but they weren't. 
The 7000's (which I love, but still has it faults), has extremely wobbly bass.
One might like the 650's over the 800's (which is a minority opinion, but everyone is allowed to have their own opinion), but the 650's and 7000's are certainly not "fault-free". 
 

 

[Ra97oR]

Both have very clear faults. The 650 is extremely uncomfortable, clamping one's head. Also, there is an obvious veil in the upper midrange which was supposed to be fixed from the 600's, but they weren't. 
The 7000's (which I love, but still has it faults), has extremely wobbly bass.
One might like the 650's over the 800's (which is a minority opinion, but everyone is allowed to have their own opinion), but the 650's and 7000's are certainly not "fault-free". 
 

Totally my bad of not explaining it. The so call "fault-free" there is where someone might not spot that trait in the first 30 secs of listening. The HD650 veil and the D7000's over bassy presentation is no where as easy to spot as the sharp treble that can present on certain recordings on the HD800 and my ATs. Where I do NOT prefer the D7000 or the HD650 over the HD800s, the point I am trying the make is, at first "glace" the D7000 or HD650 seems pretty flawless, but you will start hearing what they lack given some time, a one song or two.

But to appreciate the good details, speed of the HD800, it will take more time. However the brighter treble on the HD800 might creep up very early on with some recordings. Its just harder to spot the good points on them and some "weakness" (or you can call sound signature that one might not like) could show up very quickly.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Since a few asked for more detailed impressions, I found the HD-800 to have a much improved soundstage. Also, they have more clarity, detail and transparency than the HD-650. The HD-800 is more comfortable, though I didn't have a big clamping issue with the HD-650 and HD-600. I also find the HD-800's bass to be cleaner and deeper than the HD-650.

After listening to both, I decided that the HD-800 offered more of what I enjoy in headphones than the HD-650 does. The price... ouch. But I sold off several pairs and rolled that into the HD-800 hoping to use it as my primary headphone. That turned out well for me. The HD-800 isn't flawless, but I really enjoy music through it.

Also, I liked the HD-600 slightly better than the HD-650. They're pretty close, but the HD-600 is more neutral and I really enjoyed my pair. I didn't keep them because I knew I'd go for the HD-800 almost every time I sat down to listen.

Sennheiser also deserves credit for a completely new design. It would have been easy to adapt the HD-650 driver into a "luxury" model with aluminum and leather, whip up a fancy box and triple the price. But they put several years into developing something completely new and tried to create the best possible headphone. Whether you enjoy its sound or not, you have to agree that Sennheiser put a lot of effort into this product.

On the other hand, some companies (that I won't flog here) keep recycling their old designs into "new" ones. For whatever reason, people instinctively equate leather and aluminum with "quality," so the manufacturers get away with putting old drivers in a "luxury" package along with an eye-popping pricetag.

This is why I give credit to Sennheiser for the HD-800. I also appreciate the R&D put in by Beyerdynamic for the T1 and Audeze's scrappy startup. These guys are making an effort to give us newer and better products. Others are just trying to turn a quick dollar off perceived luxury products.

And don't get me started about certain companies who think fluorescent coloring is an "upgrade."

 

[ACDOAN]

Quote:

Since a few asked for more detailed impressions, I found the HD-800 to have a much improved soundstage. Also, they have more clarity, detail and transparency than the HD-650. The HD-800 is more comfortable, though I didn't have a big clamping issue with the HD-650 and HD-600. I also find the HD-800's bass to be cleaner and deeper than the HD-650.

After listening to both, I decided that the HD-800 offered more of what I enjoy in headphones than the HD-650 does. The price... ouch. But I sold off several pairs and rolled that into the HD-800 hoping to use it as my primary headphone. That turned out well for me. The HD-800 isn't flawless, but I really enjoy music through it.

Also, I liked the HD-600 slightly better than the HD-650. They're pretty close, but the HD-600 is more neutral and I really enjoyed my pair. I didn't keep them because I knew I'd go for the HD-800 almost every time I sat down to listen.

Sennheiser also deserves credit for a completely new design. It would have been easy to adapt the HD-650 driver into a "luxury" model with aluminum and leather, whip up a fancy box and triple the price. But they put several years into developing something completely new and tried to create the best possible headphone. Whether you enjoy its sound or not, you have to agree that Sennheiser put a lot of effort into this product.

On the other hand, some companies (that I won't flog here) keep recycling their old designs into "new" ones. For whatever reason, people instinctively equate leather and aluminum with "quality," so the manufacturers get away with putting old drivers in a "luxury" package along with an eye-popping pricetag.

This is why I give credit to Sennheiser for the HD-800. I also appreciate the R&D put in by Beyerdynamic for the T1 and Audeze's scrappy startup. These guys are making an effort to give us newer and better products. Others are just trying to turn a quick dollar off perceived luxury products.

And don't get me started about certain companies who think fluorescent coloring is an "upgrade."

My AKG 702 and my AKG 240 do not have the fluorescent paint but they are as good as they should be. Who needs fancy paint jobs while listening to Diana Krall or The Fourplay ? Not me.

 
 

 

[Graphicism]

No one finds it 'odd' that after some 60 plus years in business both Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic release expensive flagship headphones that are seemingly much better than their reference series at the same time? After 60 years both these companies just-so-happen to finally figure out how to make better sounding headphones?
 
Better or not I call marketing BS!

 

[rhythmdevils]

I agree Graphicism.  I think one company probably heard the other was making something and then they rushed to come up with something as well.  I'm guessing Beyer is the one who rushed because the whole Tesla magnet thing smells more like BS to me then the ring driver, which seems like more engineering would be needed.  But who knows.  I don't think either one is worth the price.  i'd prefer if the HD800 wasn't handmade, didn't look like a robotic face hugger, and cost 500 dollars less.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Beyer might have rushed the T1, but it is a new design.

The HD-800 seems to have had several years of research put in. Rumors of it turned up five years ago and even prototype pictures turned up here about a year before release. It's pretty clear that Sennheiser decided to stop evolving the 580 and bring out a new headphone.

I do agree that Sennheiser should automate more of the process and bring down the price to $700-$800.

 

[jeust0999]

I agree with him 100%. They do look like a robotic face hugger.

 

[pp312]

 
Quote:

Quote:Originally Posted by pp312 


"First of all, there's more than a touch of deliberate stirring in this post. Baka1969 and I tend to disagree on everything, and clearly he intends to keep up the tradition even where there are no grounds for disagreement.
I was not commenting specifically on the 800. I was certainly not "evaluating" it. I was making general remarks about the kind of phone I don't want for the reasons stated. As it happens, all the descriptions of the 800's sound would seem to confirm that this is indeed the kind of sound I don't need, but the same could be said of any Grado, the AKG K702, Beyer DT880 and a dozen other phones. So to suggest that I was "evaluating" the 800 is ridiculous. Come right, Baka1969. You're looking for ways to criticise my posts and coming up with absurdities."


In your first two posts you're making statements and assumptions about the HD800. You even mentioned that if the HD800 was priced the same as the HD650 the two would be one alternative or the other. How can you say that without actually having heard both of them? Even within the limited nature of the poll and the small sample size 2/3 of the current vote favor the HD800. To me, and I've had both, the HD800 is superior. If we want to argue the merits of the HD800 vs the LCD2 (or other similarly prices can) then that's another issue of preference. But there is hardly any consensus that states the HD800 is any sort of failure.

I can say that without having heard both of them because there are now enough posts where people have said they have the 800 but are still keeping their 650, or had the 800 but went back to their 650, to know that the 800 is not the be-all-and-end-all for everyone, that no matter how they're priced, some people will always prefer the more forgiving nature of the 650 (as I'm pretty sure I would. No, make that very sure). As for the 800 being "any sort of failure", you'll have to point out to me where I said that or anything like it. That would be a ridiculous thing to say; consequently I didn't say it. What I did say was that the 800 hasn't blown the 650 out of the water quite to the degree some people were expecting--that is, there hasn't proved to be such a clear improvement that everyone has embraced the 800. Rather they seem to appeal to different requirements, different tastes. The question of failure doesn't arise.   
 
What surprises me is that I have to clarify my posts to this degree. Perhaps I should take writing lessons to try to make myself clearer.
 
P.S. I didn't vote.
 

 

[pp312]

 
Quote:

My blows them out of the water comment was a response to this quote by you, so sorry if you don't like the variety of quotes that you use.

The irony here is that I used that phrase in echo of a number of other people who've used it in this context--I was being, if you like, vaguely sarcastic. In any case it's a phrase I detest and I sincerely promise never to use it again on pain of death.
 
Sorry I didn't pick up on the connection.