[kkcc]

I know, essentially you'd be paying 2.5k for just a quality dac when it's the amp section that effects the sound. Almost all dacs costing over $100 sound similar. A dac is a very simple component, there isn't much involved.

Plus the fact you can't even completely bypass the internal is just unacceptable at this price point. 

I bought a used Sony HM-HD5 for $10 and it has this function so essentially, I could get up getting better performance by pairing it up with a really good amp. 
AK240 BIG FAIL!!!  

Tell me if I'm wrong. 

well many folks uses DAPs at home as DAP also. And occasionally when I hook up the AK240 (or hm901) as a DAC to my WA22, i do prefer it over other desktop components I have had.

You are free to believe amp has more impact on overall sound quality and to some extend I also agree with that for entry level gears. As I moved up the chain and my headphones/music are not capping the quality, I find the DAC made much more of a difference for me.

Also the "old wisdom" of line out vs headphone out was based on the old days where headphone amp was quite poor and introduce distortions/coloration to the sound. The better implemented product these days like AK240 or Hugo don't have "dedicated" lineout but their output is so clean I don't find a need for a separate lineout to pair with my amps.

 

[Fungus]

well many folks uses DAPs at home as DAP also. And occasionally when I hook up the AK240 (or hm901) as a DAC to my WA22, i do prefer it over other desktop components I have had.

You are free to believe amp has more impact on overall sound quality and to some extend I also agree with that for entry level gears. As I moved up the chain and my headphones/music are not capping the quality, I find the DAC made much more of a difference for me.

Also the "old wisdom" of line out vs headphone out was based on the old days where headphone amp was quite poor and introduce distortions/coloration to the sound. The better implemented product these days like AK240 or Hugo don't have "dedicated" lineout but their output is so clean I don't find a need for a separate lineout to pair with my amps.

Still, I just think it's a waste to see people buying such high end/expensive dap and end up pairing with an external amp. Everyone knows it's not possible to fit in a top of the line amp in the limited space that is allowed within a dap housing.
 
So I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's better to buy a independent portable dac unit that bypasses i devices and android. Yes, the AK240 has a good interface but that's only by audiophile dap standards. Navigating music from a modern day smart phone is much better.      

 

[kerrys30]

  I know, essentially you'd be paying 2.5k for just a quality dac when it's the amp section that effects the sound. Almost all dacs costing over $100 sound similar. A dac is a very simple component, there isn't much involved.
 
Plus the fact you can't even completely bypass the internal is just unacceptable at this price point.
 
I bought a used Sony HM-HD5 for $10 and it has this function so essentially, I could get up getting better performance by pairing it up with a really good amp.
AK240 BIG FAIL!!!
 
Tell me if I'm wrong.
 

 
You are entitled to your opionon as much as the next person is entitled to buy what they want and use how they want.
 
You are just coming off as an arse!
 
"Tell me if i am wrong."

 

[Solude]

  Almost all dacs costing over $100 sound similar.
Tell me if I'm wrong. 

 
Unless you missed a few zeros... you're wrong  Even in the home DAC market there is a vast gap between a $100 DAC and a $2500 one.  Diminishing returns kicks in around $1000 in my experience.  And then only because of companies like Schiit.

 

[Fungus]

Actually I was agreeing to with SilverEar's reply about the AK240 being pointless. I shouldn't have used the word "you".
 
I'm sorry if you think I'm coming off as being an arse but I think you're misinterpreting my words  

 

[kerrys30]

  Actually I was agreeing to with SilverEar's reply about the AK240 being pointless. I shouldn't have used the word "you".
 
I'm sorry if you think I'm coming off as being an arse but I think you're misinterpreting my words

 
 
My mistake.....I did read it as an attack to all 240 owners.  peace...love...and all that stuff

 

[kkcc]

Unless you missed a few zeros... you're wrong  Even in the home DAC market there is a vast gap between a $100 DAC and a $2500 one.  Diminishing returns kicks in around $1000 in my experience.  And then only because of companies like Schiit.

This is so true. I also find $1000 is where significant improvement become more difficult with schitt and audio-gd's offering with great value. The next meaningful tier is somewhere around $2500-3500 for the likes of Vega, Hugo, M7+OR5/AP1, HEX, PWD etc.

But of course in the portable scene if all one listened to are mp3 mastered for the loudness war with less than transparent iem/headphones or used in very noisy environment with leaky phones then I doubt the ak240 or hm901 or whatsoever can make that much of an difference.

 

[SilverEars]

  Still, I just think it's a waste to see people buying such high end/expensive dap and end up pairing with an external amp. Everyone knows it's not possible to fit in a top of the line amp in the limited space that is allowed within a dap housing.
 
So I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's better to buy a independent portable dac unit that bypasses i devices and android. Yes, the AK240 has a good interface but that's only by audiophile dap standards. Navigating music from a modern day smart phone is much better.      

Hey Fungus, I suggest trying it out with your favorite headphones.  I would recommend an audition with iems(something that is very capable like UERM or the like).  I understand that price is unreasonable, but it's out there.  
 
I was a bit skeptical of the sound until I demo'd it at a meet with UERM, and it did sound pretty good.  And UE uses it for their demo, and why would they do so?  I would think they would pick out a portable device that has good sonic performance so that customer will be impressed with the sound of their iems.  
 
One thing I was impressed with it was the way it sounds differentiating from other portables I've heard.  It's sound was getting closer to a desktop setup.  I personally don't know if there is anything comparable that is portable.  Once competing players of similar sonic signature comes out, I'm sure the competition will drop the ridiculous price.

 

[Saraguie]

  I don't understand why some people would be willing to dish out 2.5k for a AK240 if their primary intention is to use it during commute and in public spaces. All the superior detail would be drained out by the background noise, kind of defeats the purpose IMO. 

Because, if our headphones have good isolation then, we can hear all the great SQ the AK240 puts out. I listen to mine at my sons karate class, where it is very noisy,  the sensei yelling commands and counts the students answering. I am aware of it, but the isolation on my IEMs are good so its the AK240 that I hear.
 
Look, not sure why you have such a problem with expensive daps, seems like A&K especially, but if you were to try them have a open mind I think you'd enjoy them very much.

 

[Currawong]

  Do any of these dap even have true-line-out?
 
Has anybody compared a AK240 or 100MK2 with a terra-player using sensitive iems? 

 
I'm inclined to feel that the "true line out" thing is irrelevant, for various technical reasons. It would make most DACs "not true DACs" by the same logic.
 
With the AK240, if you were going to use it as a DAC to another amp, I'd suppose that would be to a home system or similar, as it has quite a sufficient amp for full-sized headphones already. If I was going to care so much about gain stages and whatnot and spend money getting mods done to an AK240 and adding on an amp and spending a lot of money, I'd just buy an AK100II (as a transport) and a Hugo and be done with it if I was going to build rig the size of half a brick.
 
As for the Tera player, as I understand it, the output impedance of it is too high for it to work with many sensitive IEMs (eg: Multi-BA) without an amp. 

 

[cooperpwc]

  I don't understand why some people would be willing to dish out 2.5k for a AK240 if their primary intention is to use it during commute and in public spaces. All the superior detail would be drained out by the background noise, kind of defeats the purpose IMO.

 
I don't have the AK240, just the lil' ol' M, but I don't entirely agree. First of all,some of these IEMs isolate pretty well. But also I use my portable rig at coffee shops and hotel lobby lounges where background noise is moderate or less. These are some of my best head-fi moments kicking back with a cigar. The M + Lab 1 pairing, which doesn't isolate especially well, can fully express it's magic and ambience in those situations.

 

[Hungryhoss]

I don't have the AK240, just the lil' ol' M, but I don't entirely agree. First of all,some of these IEMs isolate pretty well. But also I use my portable rig at coffee shops and hotel lobby lounges where background noise is moderate or less. These are some of my best head-fi moments kicking back with a cigar. The M + Lab 1 pairing, which doesn't isolate especially well, can fully express it's magic and ambience in those situations.

They let you smoke inside?

For two grand you could buy a cheap mp3 player and spend the rest on whiskey to drink while listening. This would at least put a new slant on double blind testing!

Anyway, I guess the existence of such massively expensive portable music players is essentially serving the same function as high end cars - they give people with too much spare money an ego massage when they are forced to mix with the smelly proles...

A joke, of course, moderators.

 

[SilverEars]

   
I'm inclined to feel that the "true line out" thing is irrelevant, for various technical reasons. It would make most DACs "not true DACs" by the same logic.
 
With the AK240, if you were going to use it as a DAC to another amp, I'd suppose that would be to a home system or similar, as it has quite a sufficient amp for full-sized headphones already. If I was going to care so much about gain stages and whatnot and spend money getting mods done to an AK240 and adding on an amp and spending a lot of money, I'd just buy an AK100II (as a transport) and a Hugo and be done with it if I was going to build rig the size of half a brick.
 
As for the Tera player, as I understand it, the output impedance of it is too high for it to work with many sensitive IEMs (eg: Multi-BA) without an amp. 

Didn't the popularity of LO for portables come about from earlier ipods?  My 5.5G's HPO noise can easily be heard with iems, and somebody found the dock's audio out which probably has low noise level probably because didn't amplify the noise the headphone out did.
 
Anyway, I personally hear sonic difference when amp section is bypassed on few DAPs I've tried.  

 

[Currawong]

 

   
I'm inclined to feel that the "true line out" thing is irrelevant, for various technical reasons. It would make most DACs "not true DACs" by the same logic.
 
With the AK240, if you were going to use it as a DAC to another amp, I'd suppose that would be to a home system or similar, as it has quite a sufficient amp for full-sized headphones already. If I was going to care so much about gain stages and whatnot and spend money getting mods done to an AK240 and adding on an amp and spending a lot of money, I'd just buy an AK100II (as a transport) and a Hugo and be done with it if I was going to build rig the size of half a brick.
 
As for the Tera player, as I understand it, the output impedance of it is too high for it to work with many sensitive IEMs (eg: Multi-BA) without an amp. 

Didn't the popularity of LO for portables come about from earlier ipods?  My 5.5G's HPO noise can easily be heard with iems, and somebody found the dock's audio out which probably has low noise level probably because didn't amplify the noise the headphone out did.
 
Anyway, I personally hear sonic difference when amp section is bypassed on few DAPs I've tried.  

 
Yes, it did. I'm not so sure of the benefits on a $2.5k DAP though. I don't think it is universally beneficial. What other DAPs that had their amp section bypassed, and combined with what amps, did you try?

 

[SilverEars]

   
Yes, it did. I'm not so sure of the benefits on a $2.5k DAP though. I don't think it is universally beneficial. What other DAPs that had their amp section bypassed, and combined with what amps, did you try?

I thought the DX90, X5, and HDP-R10 sounded different with the LO using Vorzuge pure ii.  Although I'm not a huge fan of the DX90, I thought it sounded better with pure ii though LO.
 
Unless it's really noisy and has a LO, there probably isn't much benefit to adding an external amp to modern DAPs unless it has high output impedance or needed to drive harder to drive phones.  I think there could be some benefits to adding an external amp though a LO if there is audible difference that one hears.  There could be better dynamics and stage as people would point out.