[Tano]

Without wanting to pour oil on the fire for what an EQ?
Purely personally, if the drive (Dac/Dap/mobile Dacamp) is good, you don't need an EQ.
There are Iem's that harmonise better with certain hardware sometimes not, similar to headphones only that Iem's tend to react more sensitively to it.

My Z12 was ultra stunning on the Shangling M6 when I was testing.
Closely followed by the Hip Dac 2, oddly enough, only then came the Zen air can, which was at least "efficient" with it.
The latter was okay but not stunning.
And all of them were run without any eq at all.

Roughly speaking, if you're not satisfied with the Ifi stuff and with the come app, you can theoretically go for the Quidelix.
If it really is as good as people say.

Personally, I don't know if Ifi will be comfortable with the idea even if it is pure brainstorming for the future app.

Personally, I would be a bit more interested in making better use of the hardware.
Up/downscaling, low/mid/high gain,
Setting personal volume with certain profiles for different environments.
Energy-saving mode would also be good.

Yeah EQ makes no sense, that's why all recordings, live concerts etc use EQ.
2023 and some people in headfi still believe in magic...

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Hi,
Yes, Zen Stream needs better app to control it. If you were to combine it with other products/software or roll out a separate app, is up to you. But the most urgent I’d say is:
1) to take care of ZS refreshing every time I need to access it/skip track/change volume (this is in addition to all other terrible, troubling, painful, infuriating things that have been extensively documented on this forum and all of which I have experienced too many times myself).

2) usb flash drive and/or external SSD is frequently “lost” and requires removal/reset/rescan, etc.

3) ZS also “forgets” the USB DAC (and it’s volume settings) every time I turn it off and reverts to Coax as default.

I list these three as top priorities, because:
I am using Zen Stream with Focal Bathys in USB DAC mode and when it works, it’s magical. I am confident this combination surpasses systems that cost 2-3 times more (for example, I prefer it to Pontus II > Sony PHA3 > Ultrasone Ed. 8 setup).

But, in addition to well documented Wifi stability and other issues, these 3 problems I have listed frequently poison the entire listening experience.

In summary: ZS is terrific hardware marred by the terrible software. Hope it gets fixed soon.

If I may direct your attention to this thread...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-zen-stream-setup-tips-tricks.961425/

Most of these issues have been addressed there take a browse thru and try the first post-redo procedure, it may help!

Now back on topic, apologies!

Cheers!!

 

[Earbones]

Without wanting to pour oil on the fire for what an EQ?
Purely personally, if the drive (Dac/Dap/mobile Dacamp) is good, you don't need an EQ.
There are Iem's that harmonise better with certain hardware sometimes not, similar to headphones only that Iem's tend to react more sensitively to it.

It's not a question of "to EQ or not to EQ"... EQ is already in the chain, that's a decision that's already been made, insomuch as all sources will EQ (like the EQ in a music player on your computer or music settings on an iPhone).

So if you use EQ, great, if you don't, also great.

But even if you don't, you can probably still see that implementing EQ further down the chain is better, no? Because to arrive at the same signature, one will need to input different values at the source EQ for DACs on the more neutral side, like the iFi line, versus something on the more consumer-bassy side, like Sony's offerings. And when you consider a DAC's onboard filters, it becomes even more complicated to EQ at the source...

I really like your ideas for customizable volume profiles for different environments and a power save mode...

 

[MAgV]

Not sure what those guys think EQ is or what its used for, but the reason a lot of people ask for PEQ is so that they can listen to their music and gear the way they want to. Nothing wrong with that, most people have different taste in response curves. The more features the future app/product can adopt, the more amount of people will consider using it. The Qudelix 5k is a literal testament to that with over 1,200 reviews on Amazon alone. All because its one of the most feature packed DAC/AMP on the market if not THE most. I honestly prefer it over DAPs that are way more expensive and even my desktop setup sometimes, simply because I have a good time whenever I'm using it due to its features and simplicity to use. If ifi itsself is saying that basic jazz, rock, etc. presets are enough they've clearly have no clue just how big PEQ has become outside of head-fi. Its all over Audiophile YouTube and reviewers have started to incorporate PEQ suggestions into their reviews more frequently. It would be an absolute miss for them to not incorporate at least a standard 10 band PEQ (the Qudelix 5k offers even more bands than that).

 

[OCC7N]

Not sure what those guys think EQ is or what its used for, but the reason a lot of people ask for PEQ is so that they can listen to their music and gear the way they want to. Nothing wrong with that, most people have different taste in response curves. The more features the future app/product can adopt, the more amount of people will consider using it. The Qudelix 5k is a literal testament to that with over 1,200 reviews on Amazon alone. All because its one of the most feature packed DAC/AMP on the market if not THE most. I honestly prefer it over DAPs that are way more expensive and even my desktop setup sometimes, simply because I have a good time whenever I'm using it due to its features and simplicity to use. If ifi itsself is saying that basic jazz, rock, etc. presets are enough they've clearly have no clue just how big PEQ has become outside of head-fi. Its all over Audiophile YouTube and reviewers have started to incorporate PEQ suggestions into their reviews more frequently. It would be an absolute miss for them to not incorporate at least a standard 10 band PEQ (the Qudelix 5k offers even more bands than that).

So you connect with bluetooth and use the app when on the smartphone?

 

[Deleeh]

That may be, look at it this way.
You buy a headphone or an item you've read a lot about and you don't like it.
And start working with Peq.

There's nothing wrong with that.
You just change the whole character and tuning of what the manufacturers have worked for.

Depending on what you have spent X amount on it instead of just sending it back.

As I said, there is equipment that harmonises and some that does not.

You can certainly use a Peq if the highs are maybe a little too sharp, or the midrange could be more powerful.

Why I'm critical of this is the other thing that it's now being abused and people write about how great the headphones and Iem's are.

Personally, I have already bought a few things that were praised on YouTube or in forums and asked myself afterwards what they actually hear?
It was absolute crap.

I am also critical of the fact that youtubers are now doing this because it influences the actual test.
And it's no longer honest.
We always have new people who join and get involved, and are later told that they are using a Peq.
I would feel like I was being taken for a ride.

You often see people buying headphones and Iem's and asking directly for Peq settings and not even bothering to get to know the equipment, also because someone posted something somewhere.

Of course, at the end of the day, to each his own.
Remember that such things can also cause hearing damage, especially if used incorrectly.

Nevertheless, I think the Ifi app will be more on the British side and that may be the target.
Smart, effective and efficient.
And in the end it may not be everyone's cup of tea.

 

[Nick24JJ]

The thing about PEQ is that it has an OFF switch and you can never use it, if you don't want to, or if you don't know how to set it up properly. But it is there!
I never use PEQ or EQ. But I sincerely appreciate the fact that it exists on my Qudelix-5K. (and it has saved me with my Tansio Mirai Sands!!)

One other thing that I definitely appreciate about the 5K is their customer devotion and support! There are periods when I receive multiple firmware updates, in a matter of days, for bug fixes or new features' implementation. Which means that they are listening to their customers and are offering a rapid Solution! That is customer service at its finest.

 

[Earbones]

That may be, look at it this way.
You buy a headphone or an item you've read a lot about and you don't like it.
And start working with Peq.

That’s a pretty big assumption, and the following is pretty easily argued, if you consider that…

You just change the whole character and tuning of what the manufacturers have worked for.

…It’s realistically impossible to determine what character and tuning the manufacturers were hearing during the design process, as it was likely tested using different speakers, headphones, or IEMs than what you the end user are listening to it with.

The only way your argument holds water is when we’re discussing a DAC designed for use exclusively with a specific speaker, headphone, or IEM, and marketed as such. Take iFi’s product line… if we were discussing using the Zen Can Signature 6XX with a MassDrop Sennheiser 6XX (which it was designed and marketed for), and decided to fiddle with the EQ… well, I still wouldn’t say it’s necessarily a “wrong” thing to do, but in that specific case, one could argue that you are changing the end sound result that the manufacturer worked for.

But in nearly all other scenarios? If you own a DAC that was tuned around a pair of floorstanding speakers that are bright-leaning neutral detail-monsters, and are listening to it with an IEM that is warm, V-shaped, and bassy with rolled-off treble, and you decide NOT to utilize EQ, then you are absolutely not hearing the same end sound result that the manufacturer worked for.

Not to imply that EQ is some magic bullet capable of precisely correcting all tuning disparities. For the above example, EQ could certainly get you closer, but it probably wouldn’t produce an identical end sound result to what the manufacturer heard during the design process.

 

[ywheng89]

Let's expand the conversation a bit...

What if the new app was all-inclusive, in other words not only GIAA App functionality but incorporate Streaming functionality, as Zen Stream and NEO Stream currently use a separate app called Stream-iFi.

What if we had everything rolled into one, or one app to rule them all...

Post your thoughts on this as well!!

Cheers!!

This would be awesome, instead of separating several apps, all in one sounds good!

 

[Earbones]

Two more quick things-

Why I'm critical of this is the other thing that it's now being abused and people write about how great the headphones and Iem's are.

Personally, I have already bought a few things that were praised on YouTube or in forums and asked myself afterwards what they actually hear?
It was absolute crap.

I am also critical of the fact that youtubers are now doing this because it influences the actual test.
And it's no longer honest.
We always have new people who join and get involved, and are later told that they are using a Peq.
I would feel like I was being taken for a ride.

Again, you have to remember that EQ is not a magic bullet. It can't give a headphone the ability to produce deeper lows or more crystalline highs, or bring the mids forward to increase detail if the headphone isn't already capable of doing this in the first place.

Those reviewers are looking at the headphone's ability as a whole. And while I get that a reviewer EQing the hell out of something to get to a specific tuning that they like kind of invalidates a review from purely a base sound signature POV, it does tell us a good deal about the capabilities of the headphone in question.

And one last thing on this point- if we're going to be precious about EQ, where do we draw the line? How about the vast difference that ear pads can make on Focal's range? Or better yet, the Apex and Atom swappable module systems utilized by 64 Audio and FiR Audio respectively? Take 64's Nio... That IEM can vary between sounding like a somewhat bass-light dynamic driver variant of the U12T to a deep dark honey-drenched lovechild of the HD650 and a Kicker subwoofer.

Remember that such things can also cause hearing damage, especially if used incorrectly.

Too much volume causes hearing loss... you're not going to blow out your eardrums fiddling around with EQ.

 

[Suwarna18]

Streaming is important but as a streamer, please work on the capability to access tons of local music file in NAS. reading some review, it seems your current application very laggy when accessing local file in NAS.

 

[twrr]

Now there is couple of years of suggestions what should be done, and when everyone makes suggestions, a new model will arrive. The company was unable to update Volumio and wants to make its own software, so that's ridiculous.

 

[iFi audio]

The company was unable to update Volumio and wants to make its own software, so that's ridiculous.

I hear you, but we beg to differ considering that the app we intend to make is going to replace GAIA

 

[Nick24JJ]

@iFi audio , two questions:

1) Do you know when will the Go Pod become available for sale as a standalone product?

2) I would like to connect the Go Pod to my IMR Elan+ It has recessed 2-pin connectors. I hope you can see the picture on the Penon website, no time now to take a picture of mine. Will I be able to order ear loops with these connectors?

Look at the photo. The cable with the longer pins is Elan's+ stock cable. I need 2-pin connectors like these. Shorter connectors, like my UTWS5's, cannot keep the IEM in place, it falls out.

 

[JQuB3]

+1 on codec selection or more importantly, codec de-selection. Shanling implements this well

Just an FYI.. The current app (GAIA client) has an option to disable codecs.. Atleast for Gryphon that is..