[pp312]

Missed the T90. It's not very wonderful either compared to 880.
 

 

[baronkatz]

  It's hard to make out, but the 880 is actually the flattest response in this bunch, so my question is this:
 
Why do so many expensive headphones measure worse than cheaper ones. I know the FR doesn't tell all, but it tells something, and I'm loathe to spend significant amount of money on a headphone that measures worse than the one I've got. Is it not possible to design a phone that both sounds and measures well, or rather, measures as well as it sounds. I may buy a super-duper phone and be impressed with the sound, but the fact that its FR resembles the Rocky Mountains would always worry me. I'm funny like that.
 
 
 

I never trust these graphs. I feel the DT880 has way more bass than the T70 which has the least amount of bass... At least they got the T5P somewhat right when it comes to them being darker than the rest. The problem is that each headphone is different for each persons head and what they hear. For example if the T70P's sealed better they might have more bass than any of them... My ES10's will probably show up brighter than the T5P's although to my ears they aren't at all... The T770 32Ohm which isn't as bright as some left ringing in my ears compared to others that looked brighter on the chart... There are other factors such as sibilance, etc... Also the chart MAY give you a general idea of the frequency response you can expect, it's not all cut and dry, some that have a flat response may seem to have more bass or more or less highs, etc... Finally, it's not just about the response, it can be near neutral as possible but boring to listen to, or worse - have a small soundstage, muddy clarity, and no details... This is one of a dozen factors one might look at with headphones and just because the DT880 shows up as more neutral doesn't mean it will have the same clarity, details, etc... of the T1.... And really at the end it's also down to taste - if someone really prefers the sound of the T1 - they should own that. For me the Tesla drivers sound a bit harsh/cold/analytical compared to the previous generation, this is the main reason I like the DT880 and also because it seemed to have more bass and not be as bright to my ears...

 

[Syan25]

I agree mostly with what you said - graphs are not the be all and end all. Our ears are what we need to trust. 

 

[Brooko]

And - my DT880's just sold a few minutes ago.  I will be genuinely sad to see them go - but the T1's more than make up for any loss 

 

[62ohm]

  And - my DT880's just sold a few minutes ago.  I will be genuinely sad to see them go - but the T1's more than make up for any loss 

 
Gratz mate, time to get the HD800 then? 

 

[Brooko]

Bit more saving first + I'll need to think long and hard about selling the HD600 as well.  Decision for another day ......

 

[pp312]

  I agree mostly with what you said - graphs are not the be all and end all. Our ears are what we need to trust. 

 
This is the standard answer, as is the post you were agreeing with, but it doesn't address my question: why can manufacturers not make headphones that measure as well as they sound? As I said, graphs are not everything, but they're something, and wouldn't a headphone that measures well be more likely to sound better than one that doesn't, all things being equal? And please nobody reply that all things are never equal; it's beside the point.
 
Frankly, I think the FR of the T1 and HD800 pretty awful given their respective prices. Does this mean that good measurements and good sound are somehow incompatible, or mutually exclusive? Enquiring minds wish to know.

 

[Brooko]

  Frankly, I think the FR of the T1 and HD800 pretty awful given their respective prices.

 
I think graphs are a good guide - but they don't tell the whole story.  And they can't account for preference.  Remember the graphs for the SRH1840 when it first came out - lambasted for it's distortion on waterfall plots.  I loved it - and if it's comfort was better, I would have sold the HD600 and kept the SRH1840.
 
Personally I use Fr graphs after I've listened to a headphone - more to try and research what I'm hearing and why.  But they don't tell me what I like - my ears and brain do.  Personally I couldn't give a toss what the T1 looks like on a graph.  I know that I love it.  I also know I love my LD MKIV.  The purists will tell you tubes are bad - stick with SS.  Again - I'd rather use graphs as a tool to research what I've heard - not to try and tell my what I should hear.

 

[Byrnie]

  They are all so different. I would say the T70P is the most neutral/analytical of the bunch. There was no bass but LOTS of details and very strong high end, probably the brightest closed back headphones Beyer makes.
 
The T90 are the most "open." The DT880s are actually sold as Semi-Open, the T90 has those big slits. I have heard that it is a lot more bright than the DT880 and is supposed to be the Tesla upgrade to it.
 
The T5P is darker although still bright for my tastes. It's a lot more coloured than the T70P but still revealing.

I think you're getting the T90 mixed up with the DT990.  The T90 is open but it doesn't have the slits that the DT990 has.

 

[baronkatz]

  I think you're getting the T90 mixed up with the DT990.  The T90 is open but it doesn't have the slits that the DT990 has.

Oops, yes you are right, I got them mixed up. I haven't heard the T90 yet. I was referring to the DT990 although that's not a Tesla... Sorry about that. 

 

[earfonia]

Gratz mate, time to get the HD800 then? 

HD800 is not necessarily better than T1. I have both, like them both, but frankly speaking, i like T1 better most of the time.

The 5-7 kHz peaks in HD800 is just quite annoying in my opinion. For some recordings with trumpet, i just cannot bear it.

But HD800 has some other unique qualities that make it worth owning it.

 

[earfonia]

Frankly, I think the FR of the T1 and HD800 pretty awful given their respective prices. Does this mean that good measurements and good sound are somehow incompatible, or mutually exclusive? Enquiring minds wish to know.

FR is only one of so many other parameters of sound quality. So looking at FR only is simply not enough to estimate the sound quality.

 

[Valhallatier]

are you sure DT880 is 365 grams? on the box it says 295g without cable

 

[MrEleventy]

are you sure DT880 is 365 grams? on the box it says 295g without cable

Yes and his table states that it's 365 w/ cable.

 

[Valhallatier]

Yes and his table states that it's 365 w/ cable.

... i must be blind...