[nspindel]

Interesting. I've been on the phone with HeadRoom several times - Mario has been really helpful.

Agree with you on the point you make about not being sure what I'd upgrade to a year down the road. My thought process was pretty budget-driven. I just figure a maxed out Desktop/DAC setup is around $2100 without the power supply, and I really can't see myself spending more than that to go up to the maxed out Home (damn, that puppy would be $3000!!!) This is why I figured getting the power supply outta the way now would lessen the cost of the upgrade later on, and if I decide not to upgrade at all I've still got a better (yeah, but how much??) Micro Stack because of the power supply.

I hadn't really thought about another manufacturer, though. I've read nothing but rave reviews of their stuff, but I guess for $2100 there are probably a lot of options out there....

Man, this is gonna be an expensive hobby. I can't believe I actually thought that dropping $300 on the cans was gonna do it.....

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Yeah, sorry about your wallet is the mantra around here. I can't comment specifically but a PS upgrade on any audio equipment is often worth it as long as you've got some electronics good enough to get advantage of it. Also, power supple upgrades give you things that you can't get with an op-amp change. The Sloth properly identifies improvements as tightness and control in bass and a less grainy overal sound that is heard, to my ears, as a simplification of the sound. Highs seem less strident and smoother. I'm a believer in the benefits of good power supplies. You'll find a lot of attention paid to the power source in all well designed audio gear.

Whether it's worth it to you is another story.

 

[nspindel]

I never quite got the whole power thing, though.

I know guys that have audiophile rigs (speaker set ups, not cans). These guys will drop $500 on a power cord for a cd player. I just don't get it. Behind the wall, there is still 10 cents/foot Romex. Maybe the last three feet of the power path is 24K gold or whatever the heck could make a power cord worth that much, but unless you're re-wiring your whole house, and then maybe have the power company re-run your street, what difference can it really make.

Now granted, a power supply unit and a power cable are two different animals. But I'm still a little confused by it all.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nspindel I never quite got the whole power thing, though. I know guys that have audiophile rigs (speaker set ups, not cans). These guys will drop $500 on a power cord for a cd player. I just don't get it. Behind the wall, there is still 10 cents/foot Romex. Maybe the last three feet of the power path is 24K gold or whatever the heck could make a power cord worth that much, but unless you're re-wiring your whole house, and then maybe have the power company re-run your street, what difference can it really make. Now granted, a power supply unit and a power cable are two different animals. But I'm still a little confused by it all.

Well, lots of hard core audiophiles do rewire AC from the pole to their listening room. I think it might help a bit to have completely isolated AC to the listening room---gets rid of noise from other sources like refrigerators and flourescent lights. POwer cords and whatnot will help a bit too, but more with big speaker power amps in my experience.

But power supplies in gear is another thing in that they are able (when done well) to mitigate some of the issues that are otherwise addressed by the methods above. In addition, PSs are intimately tied to the audio. Here's how I see it:

Any juice making it to your headphones is drawn from the PS. So the output of the PS is equal to the driving audio signal plus the quescent current (the constant current needed to keep the electronics running. There is somewhere between 20 to 100 times more constant current running than signal current in a headphone amp typically. That means that the power supply has to deliver lots of current plus low level but very high speed (relatively speaking) audio current signals. It is the ability of the PS to deliver this low level audio current signal without any change in voltage level that is difficult. There are cheap and dirty ways to do this and more expensive and very clean ways to do this. The former is accomplished by storing lots of energy in big electrolytic caps that act as a resevoir and assuming that this large storage ability will take care of the small audio current signal requirements without allowing the resevoir level to move very far up or down as it does so. The problem is that no matter how much energy is store that caps still have series resistance the limits how fast these caps can act. In the latter case of a very fast expensive PS, storage caps are used but there are also very fast servo systems that monitor the voltage level of the PS output and actively drive it to the desired supply voltage. There are also a wide range of in-between steps like putting higher speed bypass caps in parallel with the larger but slower storage caps; or by using very fast rectifier diodes to reduce the switching noise in the unregulated section of the PS.

Bottom line: a PS should be considered as part of the audio signal chain, and improvements to the PS are as likely to improve the audio performance as the actual audio electronics as long as the audio elecronics is up to snuff.

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Well, lots of hard core audiophiles do rewire AC from the pole to their listening room. I think it might help a bit to have completely isolated AC to the listening room---gets rid of noise from other sources like refrigerators and flourescent lights. POwer cords and whatnot will help a bit too, but more with big speaker power amps in my experience.

I ran a separate 20 amp circuit to my Hi-fi from my service panel a few years ago, and it really does help clean things up. I actually found it made more of a difference than the Audio Power industries AC filter/protector I have (although that too helps).

 

[rpaul]

Well my MicroDAC should be arriving today or tomorrow, and an RSA XP-7 w/AD797 should be arriving early next week. It'll be interesting to compare the Micro w/Desktop to the XP-7 (eventhough they are not in the same price class).

The iPod will most probably go back to Circuit City...though the new video iPod looks interesting. 30GB is now the same price that I paid for 20GB just a couple of weeks ago.

 

[nspindel]

Wow, Tyll you are reminding me of the reason why 20 years ago I decided to be a computer science major instead of an electrical engineer!!! I pretty much understand where you're coming from, and if I do decide to move up to the deskop line from the Micro Stack (which should be here any minute - FEDEX WHERE ARE YOU???), then I'll obviously be getting the power supply unit as well.

My point in my earlier post is that, specifically with a high-end audiophile speaker setup, I question whether or not some big fat power cable can really make a difference. Behind the wall is still normal copper wiring. So if your listening room is 50 feet away from the panel, does it really matter if the final 3 feet of the AC path is using some kind of serious power cable?

Thanks again for all the good info....

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nspindel My point in my earlier post is that, specifically with a high-end audiophile speaker setup, I question whether or not some big fat power cable can really make a difference. Behind the wall is still normal copper wiring. So if your listening room is 50 feet away from the panel, does it really matter if the final 3 feet of the AC path is using some kind of serious power cable?

I think that's a legitimate point. You'll get arguments about it though. FWIW there is high grade romex for hospital wiring; and also it's a solid conductor of pretty fat guage so it's more likely that replacing your AC cable is more about getting rid of the skinnier conductors and crimped connections of a normal AC cord.

 

[nspindel]

Well, Tyll, one thing I can tell you is this:

Your Micro Stack (without any special power supply) sounds so goshdarn good that I'm in awe. Listening to the BB King / Eric Clapton album right now, and it's outrageously good. Such a quality rig. These two pieces together are just so sweet.

Unfortunately, my Cardas cable that just came today is defective. I ordered the 1/8", for obvious reasons with the Micro Stack, but one of the insulators is too large, you can feel a ridge when you slide your fingers down the plug. So it doesn't fit into the jack. I just spoke to Colleen Cardas, she's sending me out a new one, but unfortunately they custom make each one, so it's not going to ship until Tuesday. So for now, I'm listening with the stock Senn cable, with this beautiful, but unusable Cardas right in front of me.

I can't wait to hear what this little Micro Stack wonder is going to sound like once I can plug the new cable in.

Wholehearted recommendation for the Micro Stack. Just gorgeous....

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nspindel Such a quality rig. These two pieces together are just so sweet. Wholehearted recommendation for the Micro Stack. Just gorgeous....

So, very glad you're enjoying it. Sorry about your wallet.

Cheers!

Tyll

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

My point in my earlier post is that, specifically with a high-end audiophile speaker setup, I question whether or not some big fat power cable can really make a difference. Behind the wall is still normal copper wiring. So if your listening room is 50 feet away from the panel, does it really matter if the final 3 feet of the AC path is using some kind of serious power cable?

this is the stuff out of sight behind the walls :

as you can see it is extrmemly heavy guage solid wire and not even close to what passes for the average line cord in consumer equipment so the cord on some equipment becomes a choke point for efficient current transfer.

Think of AC like a bucket of water and you are trying to pour into a second bucket of water.The process would go faster and save a lot of time if you just transfer the water from bucket A to bucket B but if you try to fill bucket B through a funnel it will take a lot longer to accomplish the same thing.
Music being a dynamic current draw rather than a steady state current draw has moment to moment current demands.So the current demand will be just average and well within the range of a steady flow through this funnel but when there is a peak music event there is also a peak current demand placed on bucket A which must force the water through this funnel as fast as possible to meet this demand.
Not being the most efficient way to get this done means it will not be a fast process so not up to what needed at that particular moment which in music terms means compressed dynamics.

If not for the very stiff (and for the average audiophile who this is important to,very ugly

) nature of the 12/2 Romex (or 14/2 Romex) it would make the ideal power cord for audio gear but since it has these problem areas there is a huge aftermarket choice in cords all trying to accomplish what the lowly Romex does out of sight and behind sealed walls in every house in the USA built since the 1970's.]
I won't comment on what I think about megabuck designer cables

BTW-good reading here for the AC power curious :

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/electrical-.../preamble.html

 

[nspindel]

Hmmm, so are you saying that these fancy power cables that I tell my friends they are crazy for buying are no better than 12/2 Romex, except that they have some fancy mesh wrapped around them to make them worth $150/foot??? Because if so, I need to sell these guys some land in Florida, then take the cash and upgrade my HeadRoom gear

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

Hmmm, so are you saying that these fancy power cables that I tell my friends they are crazy for buying are no better than 12/2 Romex, except that they have some fancy mesh wrapped around them to make them worth $150/foot??? Because if so, I need to sell these guys some land in Florida, then take the cash and upgrade my HeadRoom gear

Well they DO flex better than Romex and really are much prettier

 

[rpaul]

Well the MicroStack is certainly sounding very good. Returned my iPod, will rely on redbook CD or lossless through laptop's USB connection for now.

Waiting to see what the $400 upgrade to XP-7 gives my ears...

 

[nspindel]

Another power question - how will the MicroStack perform (sound quality wise, that is) if running on batteries? Will battery power sound noticable better or worse than with the bricks? What about battery power compared to the way the amp/dac would sound if I had the desktop power supply?

Thanks....