[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by srapps55 You can disagree with me, but I stand by my original comment.

That's fine. I have no problem with that

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Every Koss phone I have listened to in that price range is unlistenable to my ears.

Which models would those be? (honest question, since every phone in that line sounds different)


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If I was 18 and listened to heavy metal or some other "music" genre, the Koss might be fine, otherwise, I'll stick with the Senns.

Well, for the record, I'm not 18 and I don't listen to heavy metal

 

[Eagle_Driver]

MacDEF, I think srapps55 had listened to the full-sized Koss headphones in that price range, which ARE boomy and muddy.

 

[violeta88]

Let's just be happy that ImMersion chose the 280's over the 497's. The 280's are more refined, do not have the grain that the 497's have, and are much more likely than the HD497's to last until the next millenium. Let's face it, even lasting through the 2 year warranty is a stretch for the 497. Did anyone say "Made in China" POS. They might sound okay, but they aren't built okay. BTW, I have nothing against China, they make some great stuff, but when a company is so cheap that it doesn't put some of the money that it saved on labor into the build quality of their products, that does not speak well for that said company. I could care less if they make a great pair of $12000 electrostatics. If they can't make a cheap pair of headphones that sounds great and is built to last, that just shows you that they are out to rip the consumer off. If Philips can make decent cheap headphones, Sennheiser should too. Any company that uses cheap labor can afford to lower prices. Has anyone ever thought that the $400 pair of headphones sitting on their head probably cost $20 to make, maybe $60 if it uses exotic materials and labor in Austria or Ireland. And maybe $80 if they are electrostatics. So they are making how much profit off of the Orpheus??? Probably $11,500. That is why my goal in life is to one day form my own electronics company that specializes in headphones. HD700 quality headphones would cost $40 and Orpheus quality electrostatics would cost $100. Crazy, yes. Why, because high end audio costs too much. So, I'll just undercut it to the point with products superior to everything out there and charge as little as possible for them while making enough profit to sustain the company to make headphone manufacturers either lower prices or give better performance for the money. The state of headphones is pathetic. You have to spend a gazillion dollars to get decent sound. I'm not talking about KSC-35's, HD497's, or even HD600's, I'm talking Stax electrostatics, high end A-T's, those $4000 Sonys, even the Orpheus. The sound that you can only dream of. That sound should be accessible to everyone. You shouldn't have to finance a pair of headphones. Or max out your credit cards, or be rich to enjoy THE GOOD SOUND. And when you pay that much money, you're not really getting that much. Except poorer. If it were to cost $450 instead of $12000 it would still sound as good, right. And you would actually enjoy it more because you wouldn't be afraid to touch it. I'm in a really bad place because my ears long for this ultra-good sound, but I'm never going to be able to afford it. But that should be not be a reason why I can't experience that sound all of the time. So, I guess I'll just have to save up my money and start my own business. Stax makes affordable electrostatics, but they do not put their best effort into their cheapest product. That's where the customer suffers. Sorry for my "little" rant. I just started typing and I couldn't stop.

 

[ImMersion]

Youre more than right Violeta. When i got into the whole audio scene at age 15 or so (long time before i discovered head-fi) I noticed that for home setups u have ur "cheap" below $600 US setups which are sorta mediocre. Then u get into the 800 to 1800 range which are very satisfying, but each deck/amp/speakers have something missing, some feature which would make ur experience more pleasureable or easier. If want the best there is u can easily spend more than 4000 and I dont think that is acceptable at all for them to strip of so much money for good sound and features. When I started researching phones I though to myself that I either have to go with the "barebones" ie koss's, v6, or cheaper OR I have to go all out IE $150-200 range (Hey im a college student

).
Then I discovered the 280, read many reviews, and found that this has everything I want (maybee looks could be better, but Ill something bout that as soon as I like the sound and decide to keep em).
NEway, ill keep u guys and gals posted.

 

[srapps55]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF That's fine. I have no problem with that Which models would those be? (honest question, since every phone in that line sounds different) KTX-Pro, Sporta Pro, Porta Pro Well, for the record, I'm not 18 and I don't listen to heavy metal

Wasn't saying you did, but there are a lot of heavy metal fans on the board and I think the sound of the Koss would be right up their alley.

 

[jpelg]

[size=xx-small]Originally posted by srapps55
THUD, THUD, THUD, THUD, THUD. That's all Koss provides, and it isn't worth spending money on. Can't speak for the Grados, but the Senn 497 are in a totally different class from the Koss[/size]

Sorry, srapps. Gotta side with MacDEF and Commander on this one. I don't know why those Koss' get such a bad rap when it comes to its bass output. Granted, when listening to lighter styles of music in completely quiet environments, they do exhibit a bassiness that is not always desirable. But for their primary intended application - that is - portable, unamped, on-the-go type listening, this bassiness is not nearly so apparent and actually serves to attenuate alot of annoying ambient sounds without giving that "closed" effect. For me, they have no peer under $100. IMO they provide 95% of the Grado 60 sound at half their price (awesome with contemporary rock and pop music), and NONE of their discomfort (who ever named them "comfy" pads?) which makes them ultimately more listenable. The Senn 497's do not provide a significant leap in sound either, and there are major quality/comfort issues with these also. And yes, I have owned all of these cans mentioned.

Now onto violeta's comments...

violeta, I luv ya man, but yer talkin' out yer butt. You speak with all the zeal of youth and all the naivete' as well. You remind me of myself in many ways. Most times I would hesitate to comment, but, as they say, you opened up this line of questioning.

First of all, by your own admittance, you have never owned any headphone that cost more than $100, and never listened to any of them or others properly amped. Yet you make comments about high-end cans like, well all the ones talked about in these forums, as if you had actually heard them. Why do you lament the "pathetic" state of headphones like the Sony 3000's & R10's, the Orpheus, and the like? You most likely will never own one of them. Nor will I. I cannot imagine spending that kind of cash on a pair of headphones with the expectation of achieving realistic sound reproduction. To me, headphones will always represent a compromise as compared to speakers, primarily for the sake of portability, isolation/attenuation, and cost. If I had $4000 or $10,000 to spend on an audio output device (as well as more $$ for the appropriate sources and amps), rest assured, it would not be for ANY headphone. With that kind of cashola, I could get a slammin' set of speakers at half that, spend the rest creating a sound-proof listening room, or just pay off my neighbors to keep their mouth shut when I play the music too loud. Or just invite them down for a listen. Now there are people out there, many of them respected contributors here, who have differing opinions on this. But at least they have gone thru the bother of actually buying and using the equipment they say is so great. I can never fault that. Please v, just buy a pair of Senn 580's, a halfway decent amp, and come back after you've listened to them for three months. Then, try other high-end phones and describe your impressions compared to the Senns. Otherwise, just stick to talking about what you actually know to be true based on experience. By the way, that "sound that you can only dream of" doesn't exist in the real world no matter what the headphone costs.

Speaking of which, take an economics course or two when you get to college, maybe try to start up your own small business, and live at least another ten years before criticizing Sennheiser's (and other company's) business practices. Unless you are prepared to build your own pair of HD600's that is. The reason why the new lineup of Senn's exist is our own fault. I say "our" with reference to the general public at large. Sennheiser has to compete with the like of Sony in order to survive. Those less expensive cans enable them to continue to exist, to produce high-end cans like the 580/600's at semi-reasonable prices (or even the Orpheus at ridiculous prices). I don't know about you, but when I work and produce a quality product, I want to get paid. I am more than happy to support a company that has high standards so that they can survive another day and provide me with a quality product. Do you have any idea what the total markup is over original cost of ANYTHING you buy at or near retail? Get a clue!

 

[jpelg]

Oops! Sorry, I hit the [Refresh] button! Didn't mean to post twice.

 

[violeta88]

Greed only feeds on ignorance.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

I'm sorry to hear this from me, but if I have $4000 to $15,000 to spend, I'd spend it on something else other than audio. I live in an area where I can't play music through speakers at any decibel level higher than about 85dB even inside the home (which means that the sound can't even be audible at all outside even at a distance of about three feet outside the house or car where the music is being played at with the windows closed). And unfortunately, there is no way around this so-called noise law.

If that were the case, then the recommended speaker-based audio "system" for my area would have to be a tiny, really cheap, really crappy pocket radio.