[PhilS]

As I suspected -- yet another one who wil inundate us with anti-cable, anti-"audiophile," anti-"snake oil" prouncements, with no demonstration that he has any experience or basis for his absolutist comments. Just what we need around here.

 

[lowmagnet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOnlyOne /img/forum/go_quote.gif Attachment 9584 Always remember, our senses can not be fooled. TheOnlyOne

Not at that resolution, they can't. All in fun though. The high-resolution version of that is awesome.

It's interesting to read PhilS's comments on the matter:

Quote:

and frankly, it supports the position of cable "beleivers," not skeptics.

It supports the position of believers that the snakes appear to move when they aren't if you isolate the color component? Do the snakes represent 'synergy' to you or something? To me they show that the eye-brain interface, like the ear-brain interface, makes crap up, and one can either choose to go with it (subjectivist) or see the pattern of the snakes (objectivist)

I'm able to stop the snakes. Can you?

 

[edstrelow]

Regarding "downgrades," I am sometimes surprised when i go back to stuff I have upgraded from, that it is not as bad as I remembered. However, after a few days, it comes back what you didn't like about the stuff.

My feeling is that just about any component (including IC's) can do something right, and if you stick to the recordings that do that "something" then you will be happy with those low-grade components.

The better quality, and frequently more expensive, components will generally sound better with larger array of recordings.

As for those who deny audible differences between cable, I refer you to a posting I did some while back, where I was able to measure modest but sonic differences between a stock and a mid-price Monster Cable.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=155351

 

[TheOnlyOne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif As I suspected -- yet another one who wil inundate us with anti-cable, anti-"audiophile," anti-"snake oil" prouncements, with no demonstration that he has any experience or basis for his absolutist comments. Just what we need around here.

Sounds just like a lawyer at work, but I’m sorry, you’re not in front of a jury. I have been doing audio for over 40 years, I have a degree in electronics and that is one reason I don’t buy into snake-oil. And you right, I can't demonstrate against woo-woo because that would take you knowing something about the subject, it would be like me selling you woo-woo if I talked about law. This is not saying you can’t learn, but will you. I can point you to one site that does a good job of not selling snake-oil.

TheOnlyOne

 

[Steve999]

Okay, I think it's that time. Cue up the music, Mr. Dylan ....


You walk into the room
With your pencil in your hand
You see somebody naked
And you say, "Who is that man?"
You try so hard
But you don't understand
Just what you'll say
When you get home

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

You raise up your head
And you ask, "Is this where it is?"
And somebody points to you and says
"It's his"
And you say, "What's mine?"
And somebody else says, "Where what is?"
And you say, "Oh my God
Am I here all alone?"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

You hand in your ticket
And you go watch the geek
Who immediately walks up to you
When he hears you speak
And says, "How does it feel
To be such a freak?"
And you say, "Impossible"
As he hands you a bone

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

You have many contacts
Among the lumberjacks
To get you facts
When someone attacks your imagination
But nobody has any respect
Anyway they already expect you
To just give a check
To tax-deductible charity organizations

You've been with the professors
And they've all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have
Discussed lepers and crooks
You've been through all of
F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well read
It's well known

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Well, the sword swallower, he comes up to you
And then he kneels
He crosses himself
And then he clicks his high heels
And without further notice
He asks you how it feels
And he says, "Here is your throat back
Thanks for the loan"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Well, you walk into the room
Like a camel and then you frown
You put your eyes in your pocket
And your nose on the ground
There ought to be a law
Against you comin' around
You should be made
To wear earphones

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?


Copyright © 1965; renewed 1993 Special Rider Music

Columbia Records

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOnlyOne /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can point you to one site that does a good job of not selling snake-oil.

I'm sure you can. Feel free to hang out there a lot.

 

[TheOnlyOne]

Well, you should know the law, right, and something about being where I want to be or not.

TheOnlyOne

 

[Steve999]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOnlyOne /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just looked at your occupation, boy did I hit that in the head. How many posts I made on this thread has nothing to do with nothing. If a child points to a blue sky and says the sky is blue, to you say, hey you don't have the time in life to know that. If you need to know, I am retired and a computer programmer. Anyone you know who gets SSA and or Tax payments, gets those payments thru many of my programs. TheOnlyOne ............................. Sounds just like a lawyer at work, but I’m sorry, you’re not in front of a jury. I have been doing audio for over 40 years, I have a degree in electronics and that is one reason I don’t buy into snake-oil. And you right, I can't demonstrate against woo-woo because that would take you knowing something about the subject, it would be like me selling you woo-woo if I talked about law. This is not saying you can’t learn, but will you. I can point you to one site that does a good job of not selling snake-oil. TheOnlyOne

Interesting! Welcome to head-fi!

What's your degree in electronics? What kind of audio did you do for over 40 years? What many programs did you write that anyone who receives tax or social security payments gets payments through? What field did you retire from? I'm curious!

 

[tnmike1]

HO HUMMM. Can you guys take this to PMing each other so others of us can read some interesting stuff about cables?

 

[DSlayerZX]

is always fun to watch someone claim them self as being "educated" in a certain field and use the general facts that they learned to reject/refuse to believe certain ideas. Seems like this kind of attitude has being flowing around Headfi a while(or should I say, is human nature), especially most of the engineering related majors. (Don't get me wrong, I am currently an Electrical Engineering study at UCSD, nothing against the engineers.)

But to be true, how do you know if something is true/false if you never test it. hypothesis is always going to be hypothesis if you never done the experiment.
Yes, base on scientific evidence, on earth, everything suppose to fall with the same acceleration, but things are not like that does it? There are air resistance, magnitude, places, etc, many other factors that will effect the out come. Then, sir, may you please tell me, how do you know the definite answer with out even putting your hypothesis to test first?

What annoy me the most is that there are a large number of people like that flowing around Head-fi and usually just jump into a thread, start a debate and drag the thread away from its original purpose.
No, they never listen, they always hold their own thoughts, they never change their mind, all they do is repeat stating the claim they made over and over again.
They refuse to try, refuse to change, even refuse to test it out when someone offer them the material. When we are asking for advice, we want personal experience, not statement that is established in a world in which everything is idea.


But anyway, my suggestion is for you to look into blue Jean Cables, they are not expensive, and really good build quality too.
=================
edit post
agree with tnmike1, so, for non cable believer, please have a big cup of "shut the hell up" and let the OP get the answer that he wants.

 

[bigshot]

I've already been over my resume with you before, Phil. My name is Stephen Worth. I have 20 years of experience in production and post-production of TV, feature film and music, primarily for animated programming and live action/animation combinations. I've supervised recording sessions and sound mixes, I've performed both as a singer and voice over actor, and I have edited dialogue, music and FX using ProTools. I have a personal business called VIP Records where I reissue classic recordings that I restore using digital techniques. I've been involved in hifi for thirty years, and my personal collection of records and cds numbers in the tens of thousands. I'm currently working as the director of a digital archive in Burbank, CA.

See ya
Steve

 

[meat01]

Quote:

No, they never listen, they always hold their own thoughts, they never change their mind, all they do is repeat stating the claim they made over and over again. They refuse to try, refuse to change, even refuse to test it out when someone offer them the material. When we are asking for advice, we want personal experience, not statement that is established in a world in which everything is idea.

This is funny coming from the guy who chose to ignore my post and later make fun of it when I actually tested something and posted my real world results. If this isn't the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.

Quote:

as for meat01,... I decided to ignore your post. Because I seriously doubt that just any kind of conductive metal will do the work. I tried to use paper clip on some of the electric project that I worked on, lets say the result is not pretty .

Did you ever try making an interconnect our of paper clips or a material other than copper or silver? You really should practice what you preach and give a hypothesis why an interconnect made out of paper clips will not work.


Now on topic, I do like stock cables and see nothing wrong with them compared to after market cables. I have made my own cables out of 3 conductor cable, bus wire, paper clips, 20 gauge wire braided and I have listened to Audioquest cables, Monster Cables, AR cables, Kimber Cables and I like the stock cables just as much.

 

[JohnFerrier]

Stock cables are the best. They are flexible, non-microphonic, and more reliable. IMO, audible differences between stock and aftermarket are doubtful.

 

[Black Stuart]

The Only One,
so you have a degree in electronics, what does that tell us. You have been taught to 'think' a certain way, you are full of 'received wisdom'. I have found from personal experience, that much 'received wisdom' is actually BS.

I come from another forum where we have a now retired audio engineer who was instrumental in setting up radio stations in South Africa and radio Galicia, in Spain, he ended his career working for a major international A/V US co. in London, where he was responsible for the smooth running of the physical architecture of this business. He used to come out with 'iron clad' statements. To his credit, when newbies who had not been indoctrinated into specific 'mindframes' got engaged in lateral thinking and experiments, he listened and tried for himself - that showed that he had an open mind. His knowledge of audio electronics is truly awesome but he conceded that with cables there is definately room for experiment.

Bigshot has been involved in audio only since the demise of analogue recording and admits that he works in the digital field.

As he works in studios he will be listening via 'studio monitors' these are nothing like the average transducers that Joe Punter will listen to. Many recording engineers who have many years in recording studios actually have impaired hearing but refuse to accept this.

That he has thousands of LPs and CDs is irrelevant - that was only mentioned to give himself 'authority' in his anti-cable position.

I myself was a complete cable skeptic, until I decided to make a power cord for a h/amp I had bought (Bada PH12) that I was really dissappointed with. I had no idea if this would improve the performance or not. I had been eyeballing a thread here on Head-fi and if you like it was a 'last chance saloon' thing.

After two days it transformed the sound from the h/amp completely, what had been closed in and slightly muted was now, open, breathing and full of life. I have now replaced the PC that came with the Marantz 63KI, again the difference is audible. When I have modded this CDP with most of the mods advanced by Thorsten on TNT-Audio, I will be able to hear the differences that much better than with the crappy cable supplied by Marantz.

I have since then moved onto I/Cs, as with the power cord I use only US mil. spec wire. I have virtually reached the end of the road with I/Cs and even the first efforts easily bettered commercial offerings.

Received wisdom said that all chassis wiring should be sheilded, really! Incoming signal wire into power amps yes, how do I know because of actual experimentation but once the signal has been amplified, sheilding will blur the output signal.

Is solid core better than stranded for PCs, probably not but for signal wiring you betcha - how do I know, because I have done the experiments. It may differ with different equipment with different people. I use valve amps and pre-amps, I prefer to listen to analogue rather than digital, this may change when I mod the 63KI.

All my statements come from actual experiments, not theory. If others have conducted experiments and have different outcomes, I don't find that threatening, I find that interesting and food for thought.

 

[TheOnlyOne]

The only reason for me or anyone to say that I have a degree of any kind means one of two things. One, you can learn or Two, you know how to cheat. It is one for me, but there is no way to prove that here with some people unless I buy into woo-woo.

I said I was into audio, which is like everyone else here, so for what that is worth it means I am not new to it.

As for wire, why is it that only audio has such a big problem with it. Why is it that things that best are many orders of magnitude below what humans can hear mean so much. Why is it that people who change wire always seem to hear it, if not immediately but somewhere down to line. Why is it not surprising that people who know that they have changed something will hear something, good or bad.

Being subjective more often than not, will lead to wrong conclusions, being objective cuts thru the woo-woo.

TheOnlyOne