[penpenqueen]

Thank you so much, glad you have pointed it out promptly, I have replaced the corrected version immediately.

I use the Line Out and Pre Out table of the N7 DAP to compile the iDAC-8 output specification. Obviously, I wasn't thinking carefully when I did that. I received the 888 suit and N3Ultra measurements at the same time, so I was a bit rushed when I was doing that.

Andy,
Could you provide some insights on how the idap8 differs from the Dap17 aside from storage capacity and the 17 having a dac? In other words were any changes made to the dap itself?

 

[HiFiWar]

Here we go:

 

[HiFiWar]

OK, initial impressions are really good other than damn near blowing out my eardrums twice. On the iHA-8, the line/pre switch on the back was a bit misleading. I assumed the Pre would send the volume control to the amp - no, and ouch, the amp volume was all the way off. Oh, and the light off on the amp for Source means XLR input. The Line setting allows the amp to control volume. I typically associate line out with max volume, but that's not the case here. It is definitely the case though with the iDAC-8, just to add confusion. I connected my speakers to the iDAC-8 since the amp doesn't have any RCA outs. So you will NOT have AMP control over your speaker volume. Of course, I switched to pre-amp to test my speakers since the iDAC-8 was acting as a pre-amp. No sound out of my speakers since I had the DAC turned down pretty low to test. I was dumb enough next to hit the line/pre button on the DAC at which point my speakers played at full, line-out volume. Ouch 2.0. So, I now have my speakers turned WAY down and I have both the amp and DAC set to line out which doesn't allow me to volume control on the DAC, but does on the amp. Why does pre-amp not control the volume on the amp, but it does on the DAC? Dunno. I still associate line out on an amp with no system volume control, but maybe I'm crazy. Anyway, set both to line out if you pick up this stack and you should be fine - just turn your active speakers WAY down if you have them. If you don't have active speakers, you'll need to play with pre-amp, but you can't just crank your pre-amp setting to max on the DAC because then you'll introduce some intense distortion. Cayin, just put some outputs on the amp next time. Easy solution.

Anyways, these are driving the Susvara at 50% volume with high gain and Hyper turned off (what could you possibly need Hyper to drive? Tungsten? Some sort of sound weapon? You can't drive some passive speakers with the amp, so why does it need Hyper mode?) All it can drive are headphones, so it seems a bit gimmicky. It adds a tiny amount of volume, that seems to be about it. The tube definitely sounds a bit warmer with the edges rolled off vs the "Trans" mode, which I assume is the solid-state mode. Trans crisps it up with a really clean source. MQA/MAX files play at 88.2KHz vs the usual 44.1KHz and FLAC is playing at 192KHz. Anyway, that's my initial thoughts, feel free to ask questions.

 

[Hoondarrh]

OK, initial impressions are really good other than damn near blowing out my eardrums twice. On the iHA-8, the line/pre switch on the back was a bit misleading. I assumed the Pre would send the volume control to the amp - no, and ouch, the amp volume was all the way off. Oh, and the light off on the amp for Source means XLR input. The Line setting allows the amp to control volume. I typically associate line out with max volume, but that's not the case here. It is definitely the case though with the iDAC-8, just to add confusion. I connected my speakers to the iDAC-8 since the amp doesn't have any RCA outs. So you will NOT have AMP control over your speaker volume. Of course, I switched to pre-amp to test my speakers since the iDAC-8 was acting as a pre-amp. No sound out of my speakers since I had the DAC turned down pretty low to test. I was dumb enough next to hit the line/pre button on the DAC at which point my speakers played at full, line-out volume. Ouch 2.0. So, I now have my speakers turned WAY down and I have both the amp and DAC set to line out which doesn't allow me to volume control on the DAC, but does on the amp. Why does pre-amp not control the volume on the amp, but it does on the DAC? Dunno. I still associate line out on an amp with no system volume control, but maybe I'm crazy. Anyway, set both to line out if you pick up this stack and you should be fine - just turn your active speakers WAY down if you have them. If you don't have active speakers, you'll need to play with pre-amp, but you can't just crank your pre-amp setting to max on the DAC because then you'll introduce some intense distortion. Cayin, just put some outputs on the amp next time. Easy solution.

Anyways, these are driving the Susvara at 50% volume with high gain and Hyper turned off (what could you possibly need Hyper to drive? Tungsten? Some sort of sound weapon? You can't drive some passive speakers with the amp, so why does it need Hyper mode?) All it can drive are headphones, so it seems a bit gimmicky. It adds a tiny amount of volume, that seems to be about it. The tube definitely sounds a bit warmer with the edges rolled off vs the "Trans" mode, which I assume is the solid-state mode. Trans crisps it up with a really clean source. MQA/MAX files play at 88.2KHz vs the usual 44.1KHz and FLAC is playing at 192KHz. Anyway, that's my initial thoughts, feel free to ask questions.

Thanks for the insight. I plan to pick up this stack to pair with my Tungsten SS. Seems like there shouldn't be any issues powering them. Any comparisons or impressions of tonality or signature? Right now I'm pairing my Tungsten's to the Yggy MIB / Rag 2, and while the Rag 2 easily powers the Tungsten's, it's not quite what I'm after. Would love to hear what your thoughts are. I've been a fan of Cayin's tube amps in the past.

 

[HiFiWar]

Thanks for the insight. I plan to pick up this stack to pair with my Tungsten SS. Seems like there shouldn't be any issues powering them. Any comparisons or impressions of tonality or signature? Right now I'm pairing my Tungsten's to the Yggy MIB / Rag 2, and while the Rag 2 easily powers the Tungsten's, it's not quite what I'm after. Would love to hear what your thoughts are. I've been a fan of Cayin's tube amps in the past.

I'll need more time with it to determine that, also I need my ear drums to recover

 

[zoidbb]

OK, initial impressions are really good other than damn near blowing out my eardrums twice. On the iHA-8, the line/pre switch on the back was a bit misleading. I assumed the Pre would send the volume control to the amp - no, and ouch, the amp volume was all the way off. Oh, and the light off on the amp for Source means XLR input. The Line setting allows the amp to control volume. I typically associate line out with max volume, but that's not the case here. It is definitely the case though with the iDAC-8, just to add confusion. I connected my speakers to the iDAC-8 since the amp doesn't have any RCA outs. So you will NOT have AMP control over your speaker volume. Of course, I switched to pre-amp to test my speakers since the iDAC-8 was acting as a pre-amp. No sound out of my speakers since I had the DAC turned down pretty low to test. I was dumb enough next to hit the line/pre button on the DAC at which point my speakers played at full, line-out volume. Ouch 2.0. So, I now have my speakers turned WAY down and I have both the amp and DAC set to line out which doesn't allow me to volume control on the DAC, but does on the amp. Why does pre-amp not control the volume on the amp, but it does on the DAC? Dunno. I still associate line out on an amp with no system volume control, but maybe I'm crazy. Anyway, set both to line out if you pick up this stack and you should be fine - just turn your active speakers WAY down if you have them. If you don't have active speakers, you'll need to play with pre-amp, but you can't just crank your pre-amp setting to max on the DAC because then you'll introduce some intense distortion. Cayin, just put some outputs on the amp next time. Easy solution.

Anyways, these are driving the Susvara at 50% volume with high gain and Hyper turned off (what could you possibly need Hyper to drive? Tungsten? Some sort of sound weapon? You can't drive some passive speakers with the amp, so why does it need Hyper mode?) All it can drive are headphones, so it seems a bit gimmicky. It adds a tiny amount of volume, that seems to be about it. The tube definitely sounds a bit warmer with the edges rolled off vs the "Trans" mode, which I assume is the solid-state mode. Trans crisps it up with a really clean source. MQA/MAX files play at 88.2KHz vs the usual 44.1KHz and FLAC is playing at 192KHz. Anyway, that's my initial thoughts, feel free to ask questions.

I don't see any reason you couldn't hook high-sensitivity speakers up to the IHA-8, personally.

 

[HiFiWar]

I don't see any reason you couldn't hook high-sensitivity speakers up to the IHA-8, personally.

What speakers are you hooking up to it? 3.5mm computer speakers to the front 6.35mm jack with an adapter? Pretty tacky. The only outputs the amp has are headphone outs, there are no outputs on the rear at all.

I leave my speakers off when I'm not using them, now that I have everything balanced/setup correctly.

I was under the impression that Hyper mode was a power boost, I'll play with it tomorrow, it definitely boosts the volume a few decibels.

 

[zoidbb]

What speakers are you hooking up to it? 3.5mm computer speakers to the front 6.35mm jack with an adapter? Pretty tacky. The only outputs the amp has are headphone outs, there are no outputs on the rear at all.

Custom-built open baffles. I have a 4-pin XLR to female banana jack adapter. When my unit comes in, I plan to hook the speakers to the 4-pin jack and use headphones off the 4.4mm.

 

[HiFiWar]

I gotta wonder, if hyper mode makes it sound better, then why have a button for it at all? Why not just make that the default? Who is the person choosing less quality on a $1k amp?

I have it on hyper with low gain at around 1 o'clock, 3 o'clock would be way too loud for me on my test songs, except for one quiet one. I'll post more comparisons and tonality when I have some free time later.

 

[HiFiWar]

Cross posting here since for some reason these products are split up, despite being part of a stack:

Well, it's really hard to test the Cayin 8 against the Ferrum ERCO 2 since switching between them is not a seamless process - going to do my best. Interestingly, with the Cayin 8 on high gain and the ERCO 2 on high, they share approximately the same volume position with a comfortable listening level, around 1130 o'clock. I'm comparing them both in solid-state mode to make it fair using my Susvara, most recent revision. I get more mid-bass from the ERCO 2, but more sub-bass from the Cayin 8. The mid-bass on the Cayin 8 is more forward than the ERCO 2. These have two completely different DAC chips and setups, but surprisingly they sound somewhat comparable. The vocals on my mids test song are forward and extremely clear on the Cayin 8. The highs are more pronounced on the ERCO 2 and the vocals are slightly more distant. Female vocals are also more prominent on the Cayin 8. Distorted guitars on the ERCO 2 sound sick and the high-hats in the background come across cleanly with some excellent vocal reproduction. Guitars are less pronounced on the Cayin 8 as are the high-hats. Using a song to specifically test for sibilance and highs, the Cayin 8 is pretty sharp on this song, which is pretty typical, and the cymbals are a little recessed in the background. The cymbals on the ERCO 2 are less recessed, and the sibilance is still there, but less sharp. It's an overall better highs presentation on the ERCO 2 for my preference. The soundstage and imaging on the CAYIN 8 is excellent, putting the instruments exactly where they should be and providing a large soundstage without feeling distant. The ERCO 2 is pretty similar here with more pronounced guitars, but with a smaller soundstage - imaging remains on par.

These systems are pretty close in price and perform pretty close as well. The big different here is that the ERCO 2 is an all-in-one box, which is truly impressive how it performs for its size. It also doesn't have a tube option and the Cayin 8 looks significantly nicer. Additionally, the ERCO 2 requires an adapter to use a 4-pin XLR cable, while the CAYIN 8 does not. The filters on the Cayin also provide a little more tuning ability. So, if you need a simple AIO box, the ERCO 2 is pretty great and provides similar power to the Cayin 8. If you are cool with the 2-box (or 3) system, the Cayin 8 is very good. Now I just need to decide which one to keep...or maybe I'll keep the RME - choices, choices, choices. Leaning towards the Cayin 8 at the moment.

I also want to add that I absolutely love the tactility of the buttons on the Cayin 8 stack. The clicky volume controls and the excellent on/off buttons are a real treat and they light up - makes the ERCO 2 seem dark and sad in comparison. Oh, but the Cayin iDAC-8 filters are really annoying because the timeout is too fast - stop moving in the menu for 2 seconds and it'll close. That makes it hard to compare filters.

 

[passballtotucker]

Does anyone know anything about the C-100 DAP? I can barely find anything about, there's nothing on Cayin's own website for it. From what I've seen it looks like a big idap-8 with integrated headphone amp.

 

[penpenqueen]

Does anyone know anything about the C-100 DAP? I can barely find anything about, there's nothing on Cayin's own website for it. From what I've seen it looks like a big idap-8 with integrated headphone amp.

The 100 is pretty much identical to the DAP17, but build for the North American and European market. Basically a different case.

 

[Erick Muller]

Where can I order both the DAC and the Amp in the US?, I'm interested in this set, not so much on the streamer tbh, but I'm looking to upgrade my setup and this seems to be the perfect candidate so far.

 

[zoidbb]

Where can I order both the DAC and the Amp in the US?, I'm interested in this set, not so much on the streamer tbh, but I'm looking to upgrade my setup and this seems to be the perfect candidate so far.

https://shop.musicteck.com/products/cayin-iha-8?_pos=1&_sid=4466a26ad&_ss=r
https://shop.musicteck.com/products/cayin-idac-8?_pos=1&_sid=cd34d5263&_ss=r

 

[Erick Muller]

https://shop.musicteck.com/products/cayin-iha-8?_pos=1&_sid=4466a26ad&_ss=r
https://shop.musicteck.com/products/cayin-idac-8?_pos=1&_sid=cd34d5263&_ss=r

thx duder