[analogsurviver]

  I took this from manual and drew in the info you requested. This is how I have it hooked up right now and it sounds great. But would it be best to run the tube amp into the pioneer amp's tape in or aux in?
 
 
PC USB > DAC > tube amp input > tube amp output > Pioneer SA-8100 amp's pre-power amp input
 

The input labelled AUX and TAPE IN is - EXACTLY THE SAME ! Only switch between the source and actual input of an amp.
 
For the case of running either AUX or TAPE IN inputs I see no reason for yet another one unnecessary link in the chain - and that would be the tube amp. But if it gives you flavor you like better than without it - hey, it is your system and your ears should be the judge. But absolutely necessary it is, under any circumstances,  not.
 
If you run the DAC>tube amp>power amp in - basically the same thing, unless your DAC has no provision for the volume control - in that case, some form of volume control is required, in this case provided by the tube amp.
 
Your ears should be the final arbiter - enjoy the journey !

 

[Amish]

@analogsurviver
 
 Well the tube amp volume works when hooked up through the pioneer pre-power amp input.
 
If I hook it up to the tape in or aux in then I have to use the volume on the pioneer.
 
The main reason I did this is because my tube amp is only for headphones and I wanted to run speakers off it so feeding the tube amp into the Pioneer sa-8100 allows me to hear my tube-elicious sounds out of my speakers. For headphone duties I will still run my cans out of the tube amp or my Bryston BHA-1.
 
 
My main question was (and I think you answered it) would it make a SQ difference between the SA-8100 inputs: tape in, aux in, or pre-power amp in.
 
I suppose it matters not.
 
I actually think the most pure way to pass the tube amp through the pioneer is through the pre-amp input. BUT I have to reach behind the pioneer to hit that switch when I don't want to use the tube amp. So even though I think I'm losing a little SQ by going through the aux I will do so because everything can be done via the front controls.

 

[Skylab]

Hi Amish,

Purely from a sound quality perspective, it's better to connect the tube preamp to the power amp input on the 8100, thus bypassing all of the 8100's preamp circuitry.

However, I wouldn't do that, because the 8100 has lots of great useful features, all of which require its preamp. So I would connect the tube amp to the AUX in, and then use it that way when desired. But now volume, balance, tone controls...all still work. And you can connect a turntable to the Pioneer's excellent phono stage

 

[connieflyer]

I would agree with Skylab, the components on the Pioneer are some of the best that were available at the time.  The preamp section is very strong.  Try running it through all aux in and tape in, set all controls to neutral without any boost and see how it sounds.  One input may be better than the others, hard to say with gear this old.

 

[SirMarc]

You could also pick up a tube buffered dac and just run it to the aux or tape input. I use an aune t1 which uses the sdj8 family of tubes, 6922, 7308, e88cc, etc. Flac or hi res files through a nos amperex 7308 into my Kenwood kr-7600 is a thing of beauty with headphones or speakers. I even parked my Asgard 2 headphone amp...

 

[Mechans1]

Hi Amish,

Purely from a sound quality perspective, it's better to connect the tube preamp to the power amp input on the 8100, thus bypassing all of the 8100's preamp circuitry.

However, I wouldn't do that, because the 8100 has lots of great useful features, all of which require its preamp. So I would connect the tube amp to the AUX in, and then use it that way when desired. But now volume, balance, tone controls...all still work. And you can connect a turntable to the Pioneer's excellent phono stage

Unfortunately The best sound quality is in all likelihood going to come from the first system you proposed bypassing all of the Pioneer's preamp capability.  If you like the 8100 that much why try to introduce a tube preamp.  If you really think a tube anywhere in the system will be helpful try a CD player with a tube output stage of use  tube buffer between the CD and 8100.  Otherwise I don't think you will be getting what you are really hoping for which is truly  better SQ.
I suppose the only way you will know is to try the various ways of introducing the Ember. I don't think you will damage anything.

 

[Amish]

Well it seems you guys agree with my last post above (near the bottom) I already came to the conclusion that the best SQ way of doing it is through the pioneers pre-power amp input, but decided to use the aux to keep the pioneer controls.
 
 

I actually think the most pure way to pass the tube amp through the pioneer is through the pre-amp input. BUT I have to reach behind the pioneer to hit that switch when I don't want to use the tube amp. So even though I think I'm losing a little SQ by going through the aux I will do so because everything can be done via the front controls.

 
   Quote:

You could also pick up a tube buffered dac and just run it to the aux or tape input. I use an aune t1 which uses the sdj8 family of tubes, 6922, 7308, e88cc, etc. Flac or hi res files through a nos amperex 7308 into my Kenwood kr-7600 is a thing of beauty with headphones or speakers. I even parked my Asgard 2 headphone amp...

 
Also my DAC is tube buffered.
 
And the only reason I want to run my tube amp through the Pioneer I spoke of above as well which is to use my speakers with my tube amp which was not possible before because it is a headphone amp.

  The main reason I did this is because my tube amp is only for headphones and I wanted to run speakers off it so feeding the tube amp into the Pioneer sa-8100 allows me to hear my tube-elicious sounds out of my speakers. For headphone duties I will still run my cans out of the tube amp or my Bryston BHA-1.
 
 

 
 
My cd player goes directly through the Pioneer and sounds awesome. I don't want to run it through my DAC and tube amp to Pioneer. Like I said I only want the tube amp so I can use speakers with it via the Pioneer which was never possible before due to the tube amp being a headphone amp. It is just one more option I have available to me now that I have this SA-8100.
 
 
Anyways thanks for all the replies as it seems to me my conclusions were right as you guys just confirmed.

 

[SirMarc]

OK, so overall, I'm pretty impressed with the Kenwood kr-7600. It sounds really good with my tube dac through my hd580's and my dahlquist dq-20s. I've lived with the phono stage for the past week and its very neutral and detailed with a nice soundstage, so not bad at all. Today as an experiment I hooked up my turntable to the dynaco and ran some RCA cables from the tape out to the aux in on the Kenwood. The soundstage shrunk a bit, and I lost a bit of detail, but damn the dynaco phono stage is sweet sounding. Not sure what to do...

 

[SpeakerBox]

Speaking of phono stages.  Making some progress on my vintage Leach phono stage project.  Have it in a nice case now and am feeding it into the AUX input of my 1250.  The Leach was never supposed to be anything incredible - but I will tell you it is beating the phono stage in my 1250 with more detail, more slam, and better imaging.  Of course I have improved it by making it dual mono, using WBT silver solder, replacing ceramic caps with film, bypassing signal path caps with high quality Multicap and Clarity capacitors.  Also using silver coated oxygen free copper wire and Connex connectors for all the wiring.  All I need now is to add the Nelson Pass designed B1 buffer (reserved space in the front) to provide volume control and input selection and will have a complete preamp.  Will be using it with my Rowland amps.  Here is what she looks like so far:
 

 

[SirMarc]

Damn, want to make me one? Lol

 

[SpeakerBox]

The tough part would be finding the original Leach issued PC boards.  I bought mine 38 years ago and just never got around to stuffing them until now.  I think they are unobtainium.

 

[SirMarc]

Was mostly joking, but all kidding aside, that's pretty cool...

 

[SpeakerBox]

Thanks for the compliment.  Much appreciated.

 

[SirMarc]

Anyone have experience with the schiit Mani?

 

[Mechans1]

  FM is intended for not beyond horizon distances ( although in a pinch *can* work slightly beyond that limitation ). "On the sunny side of the Alps" was/is the old tourist slogan for my country - Slovenia - which most of Americans will have little trouble finding out where it is - by mentioning it is some 100 miles east of the little known town in Italy that also goes by the name of Venice

...
 
So, I can not give you any direction for SQ of FM stations in the USA - "slightly" too far for me. If you are the super lucky "FM  SOB" and live on some peak in the mountains, say at approx 1500 metres above the sea level, you may well have the pick of MANY stations; as a joke, I took a simple battery powered portable FM radio to one such location - and you can not turn the tuning knob without going past at LEAST TWO stations - which in the valley are not available even with reference broadcast grade equipment. At that place ( Velika planina https://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velika_planina ) I could have ANY Slovenian station, most of the northern Italy stations, more powerful Croatian stations, stations from Austria ( Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra featured regularly in live broadcasts on ORF, Austrian Radio ...), even some Hungarian station(s) - ALL on FM ...
 
There is a thing - one thing - THE thing I have to be grateful to our national RTV Slovenija. And that is their archive of analog tapes from the end of WW2 to "present". Gradually everything is being digitized (or has already been digitized 

 - yeah, I do understand tha analog tapes deteriorate over time, that digitizing is the way to preserve them for the future ...) - but you should see my smile every time they play something genuinly analog 

. Our Italian audiophile friends have nothing but contempt for the FM - until, almost by force, seated in front of the good system with great FM as a source over here - sooo much has generally FM deteriorated just some 100 miles to the west... - it is whose station will sound the loudest, with music compressed to the absolute maximum limits technically possible; I would not care one iota for the FM under such conditions, either...
 
As you can see, there will be some research required - IF you have the ability to have a decent FM antenna on a rotator. I realize it is (next to ) impossible to have it organized if you live on say 103th floor - and there are some 100 or more floors above you, before there is a roof where you could perch that antenna. But do ask around - and particularly people that are around for at least 50 years; they might be able to point the good stations for you and then is up to you how much you want to invest in FM; but even a small antenna on a rotator and entry level tuner will drive the basic dipole (you get with every tuner) plus some supertuner right into the ground. Only each individual can  decide how  far he/she is likely to go - placing antenna to the highest position you can possibly get to is great for FM reception - but is unfortunately equally great for receiving a lightning ...

I was curious about your location  and was surprised to read your response being outside the USA.  As for my own use of tuners , I m much too lazy to put up an exterior antennae,   I live in an apartment now and an exterior antennae is not an option.  When I had my house I always told myself to put up such an antennae but never did.  The result is that I don't hear much new or interesting old music to add to my collection. Eventually I guess I will end up streaming to learn about new music.