[H20Fidelity]

Here's a couple of threads for you guys where ClieOs talks about EMI with E11, as ive said it's a common issue. I'll find some more in the morning as I'm on my phone, but I want you guys to get a grasp on the problem using amps with cell phones.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/613768/fiio-e11-questions-and-ideas-fiio-e11-modding-thread

http://www.head-fi.org/t/552605/fiio-e11-impression-information-support/825#post_8130789

 

[Swy05]

Quote:

That's not the Wolfson DAC that's the problem, but the headphone amp on the S3. Apparently Samsung has the headphone amp gain set low on some of their phones. I actually rooted my Samsung Note 2 and turned up the headphone amp gain by several db by changing a config file.

Ahh I see.  Got it.  Thanks for the info.
 
It's strange, I remember before I installed Jelly Bean the output volume was pretty loud on the S3.  After I updated to Jelly Bean, the volume output lowered drastically.

 

[cel4145]

Ahh I see.  Got it.  Thanks for the info.

It's strange, I remember before I installed Jelly Bean the output volume was pretty loud on the S3.  After I updated to Jelly Bean, the volume output lowered drastically.

Check this thread over at XDA for turning up the headphone amp gain on the Note 2. Might give you a lead to something similar for the S3.

 

[Swy05]

Check this thread over at XDA for turning up the headphone amp gain on the Note 2. Might give you a lead to something similar for the S3.

Thanks!

 

[Dark Helmet]

Seems like the volume on the iPad can go up 16 notches while the S3 can only go up 8 notches.

The S3 (Note 2) in my opinion is better served with an Amp/Dac, but then again even when using an Amp/Dac the onboard volume on the S3 comes into play.  If you root your phone you will be able to do a volume boost mod to it which will help.  I did it to my Note 2 and it certainly helped.
 

 

 

[mpawluk91]

I just use dedicated players. It would be annoying having an amp with ur phone all the time

 

[zerocoolhifi]

EMI problems can also be different based on the Cellular signal type - Old TDMA signals were very loud with EMI but CDMA - Verizon etc. have better EMI but still not great - GSM as far as I can tell has the best EMI. I will try my iPhone 5 (GSM) with my BH and report back my EMI findings.

 

[pngwn]

I am really curious about all this as I was considering the BH to pair with my Galaxy S. EMI issues in an amp that was designed  to be paired with this type of device are totally unacceptable.

 Has anyone talked with BH about this? This seems like a typical ground loop issue. Perhaps a shielded interconnect would solve it.

 

Portable amps are designed to be used with portable music players. Some portable music players happen to be phones. Not all portable music players are phones.

I know that getting a dedicated DAP is an extra expense, but that's the cost of getting rid of EMI -- by using a device doesn't have any.

 

[Hutnicks]

Quote:

Portable amps are designed to be used with portable music players. Some portable music players happen to be phones. Not all portable music players are phones.

I know that getting a dedicated DAP is an extra expense, but that's the cost of getting rid of EMI -- by using a device doesn't have any.

 
Welcome to the 21`st Century BH. If you cannot design an amp that does not pick EMI from a phone you are in the wrong business, period. Phone/Music players are a fact of life and not dealing with that is just BAD business.
 
 Both my E11 and cheapo Fireye1 function perfectly with my phone. That said any amp that does not perform is a no go.
 
Buying another music player (and I already have many)  to go with an amp is just completely bass ackwards and not an option.
 
 The right solution here is to buy an amp that was designed properly in the first place and emphatically NOT to buy more hardware to solve an amp problem.  That would be pure madness and the money spent better used to buy a decent amp.
 
. E12, here I come.

 

[waynes world]

A few of my impressions from this thread:
 
Quote:

Hi waynes, mind letting me know if the C&C BH carries a specific sound signature of it's own. Is it a warm or cold sounding amp? Many thanks.

 
If you haven't already seen the C&C BH thread, here it is.
 
I find that the C&C BH brightens things up a bit, adds a bit of detail in the treble region, and also tends to open up the soundstage (especially when using the SF switch). Where I find it to be perfect is with a more neutral or darker source. For instance, the Clip Zip is fairly neutral, but with the C&C BH, the sound really opens up more resolution is added. So, I find the Clip Zip + C&C BH pairing perfect for my WS99's or CKS1000's (but not with my AD900X's because they have this thing for the Fiio E12 lol).
 
With a source like the ELE DAC which is already a bit brighter, the Fiio E12 pairs very well because the combination is fairly neutral, and the E12 adds a bunch of power and refinement. And the sub-bass boost of the version 1 E12 that I have is very cool and works very well with all of my headphones and iems. The WS99's sound amazing off of the ELE DAC + E12 with the bass boost off or on. Having said that, the WS99's also sound amazing off of the ELE DAC + C&C BH. Because the WS99's are a bit warmer to begin with, they don't get too bright for me with the ELE DAC + C&C BH combo (whereas I think that headphones that are brighter to begin with would). Also, the C&C's SF switch which widens the soundstage works well with the WS99's. It would be difficult at this point for me to say which amp I like better with the WS99's off of the ELE DAC.
 
The amp for my AD900X's is the E12 (v1). For some reason, that pairing is just amazing, and the sound is just less coherent or refined when the AD900X's are paired with the C&C BH. It's not that they sound bad with the C&C BH, it's just that they sound perfect with the E12.
 
My CKS1000's are not as picky though about which amp I use off of the ELE DAC or the Clip Zip - sounds amazing with everything.
 
I never really intended on having two portable amps, but as you can see, it has become complicated for me lol. So, I'm happily stuck with them both. I find the E12 really isn't all that portable anyway, so it happily sits on my desk, usually attached to the ELE DAC (or used when I watch TV with the AD900X's). Whereas the C&C BH is quite small and portable and has that ridiculous 80 hour batter life and it pairs very well with the Clip Zip, so it's usually dual locked with the clip zip and ready to go.
 
 
Quote:

Hi wayne, appreciate your thoughts with regards to the C&C BH. Will take some time to go thru the thread you have linked. In the meantime, do you feels that the brightness you have observed would causes sibilant or could it helps to smooth out the highs.

Many thanks.

 
If your source or your headphones/iems are bright, then you'll have to think a bit about sibilance with the C&C. It was a concern of mine when pairing with the ELE DAC because I am fairly sensitive to bright treble, and the ELE DAC already adds some brightness. But in reality, it hasn't proved to be an issue because the headphones and iems that I'm using are not sibilant to begin with. Overall, I am thrilled with the C&C BH. It adds detail, resolution, and soundstage. It's 80 hour battery life alone makes it seem like it never needs to be charged. It's LF bass boost switch is still a bit of a mystery to me, but I like it (depending on the headphones and music). It's SF switch is like vodoo how it increases the soundstage, especially for live recordings. And it is quite small (smaller than the E11). Pair the C&C with a neutral to warm source or headphones, and it is friggin amazing. So yeah, the C&C BH is a keeper in my books.

 

[pngwn]

Quote:

Welcome to the 21`st Century BH. If you cannot design an amp that does not pick EMI from a phone you are in the wrong business, period. Phone/Music players are a fact of life and not dealing with that is just BAD business.
 
 Both my E11 and cheapo Fireye1 function perfectly with my phone. That said any amp that does not perform is a no go.
 
Buying another music player (and I already have many)  to go with an amp is just completely bass ackwards and not an option.
 
 The right solution here is to buy an amp that was designed properly in the first place and emphatically NOT to buy more hardware to solve an amp problem.  That would be pure madness and the money spent better used to buy a decent amp.
 
. E12, here I come.

 
Hm you make a good point about the fairly commonplace existence of phone/music players. I guess it's easy for me to suggest the alternative because I've had an iPod for so long that I was able to pair with my BH and avoid the irritating EMIs that we've been discussing.

 

[Hutnicks]

Quote:

 
Hm you make a good point about the fairly commonplace existence of phone/music players. I guess it's easy for me to suggest the alternative because I've had an iPod for so long that I was able to pair with my BH and avoid the irritating EMIs that we've been discussing.

 
I actually have 2 ipods around but am loathe to use them, the Samsung was a choice as it sounds superb. If the amp won't play well with it, out she goes and in with one that co exists with no issues.

 

[nick n]

I wonder if lining the inner part of the housing with copper ( the thin wide copper tape ) would help. (?)

 

[Hutnicks]

Quote:

I wonder if lining the inner part of the housing with copper ( the thin wide copper tape ) would help. (?)

The case is aluminium is it not? That should act as enough of a Faraday cage. I suspect the cabling is the issue at hand here. Perhaps grounded on one side and making it into an antenna. If one were to run a connection from the phone side plug to an external ground the problem may disappear. That is not a fix though.

 

[nick n]

yes you are right my bad
 
you could try a 3.5mm  audio ground loop isolator/noise eliminator cable ( 2 small audio transformers inline for those that don't know ) Think their range is 20-20k and they have a 3db boost if I recall correctly. Mine does anyhow
In addition to stopping the giant free antenna/ground problem it would eliminate any dc offset ( and control the driver better ), as well as any digitalgenic RFI that intermodulates with audio frequency.
You might lose some of the high highs.
 
They are fairly cheap.
You'd at least know if the culprit was the cable at that point, or something else ( like fake aluminum )

 
 
Just throwing out another idea it may not be worth it for you.