[Maxx134]

MORE OBSERVATIONS

Another observation after all the pad swapping, is looking at the Sine earpad and cup shape, it was obvious that this was meant to be an "over ear" shape...!

Then looking at the Sine cup body, it protrudes beyond the stock pads..(!)..

As if the pads were NOT MEANT to be so dam small..
The Sine's OBVIOUSLY using smaller stock pads than the cup body,
which actually look OUT OF PLACE, when viewed from any angle(!).

So it is my personal belief that they made same stupid mistake as Hifiman,
in listening to marketing trends stating that "on ear" is "better" or "A more positively viewed portable"...
HiFiman at least kept the "over ear" pads while stating it's an "on ear" model, lol

 

[tracyrick]

You have a good "sound memory" to be able to swap all these pads and somehow remember and compare the sound. I struggled to do this just between the HM5 and the stock pads. Takes some time to swap them out, mostly to get the HM5 on.
 
My immediate impression with the HM5 matches yours. I'm wearing them elevated side to the rear. They are more distant and dead sounding than stock. But very comfortable. It was hard for me to discern any further differences since I couldn't easily and quickly go back and forth between them.
 
I haven't decided yet which I'll leave on most of the time. The stock pads do create a more immediate and impactful sound. But comfort with the HM5 is a nice thing to have. Not sure what you mean by flat and sterile for stock, I don't get that. But maybe that's because I haven't tried all those other pads. Too bad $65.50 for the best pads/inserts. After already spending $30 on the HM5, I'm going to tap out on any further investment in these.

 

[Got the Shakes]

How difficult is it to remove the pads, add the adapter and spacer, and put new pads on? Any chance of someone making a step by step guide or YouTube video for those of us that might want to do it, but don't have much experience in messing with this kind of stuff?

 

[inertianinja]

  How difficult is it to remove the pads, add the adapter and spacer, and put new pads on? Any chance of someone making a step by step guide or YouTube video for those of us that might want to do it, but don't have much experience in messing with this kind of stuff?

 
I'm happy to help - I'm at work, but you can see how the adapters fit in the pics here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/793518/audeze-sine-series/2325#post_12803243
 
It''s much easier than you might imagine.
The stock pads have a bit of a rigid lip holding them on. Just reach into the pad and pull up gently until one side pops off the headphone, then pull the rest off. The adapters go on very easily too- they just pop onto the headphone and seat into place under the lip on the Sine.
 
No screwing / cutting / bending / breaking. There's virtually no chance of you breaking the headphone here - nothing to disassemble.
 
I design little mods like this for a bunch of headphones, and for all of them I make sure that it's a non-destructive thing, so you don't really have to think twice about trying it out. Feel free to PM me if you need any help.

 

[UNOE]

PAD ROLLING OBSERVATIONS ...



Stock pads:
flat sterile but very nice soundstage for small pad.

HM5 angled leather pads:
much more distant, yet sweeter "U shaped" sound, lacking much liveliness..
Adapters helped fit but same outcome.

Flat HM type pads:
worst tinny flat lifeless sound.
Adapters helps fit but still same.

Some protein leather small pads:
Similar shape and fit as stock,
But overall duller lifeless sound.
Did attenuate trebles though.
No adapter needed.

Geekria Sennheiser RS160 RS170 RS180 Headphone Velvet Replacement Pads :
Now this was an extremely quality pad with almost exact shape as sine and OVER EAR pad, which NEEDED the adapter to fit.
Excellent quality feel and look.
Too bad can't say same for sound.
While the proximity of soundstage and midrange was better than all the other pads previous,
It really sounded soo lifeless and a suck out almost as bad as the HM5 angled pads, except shifted to upper midrange loss...

Epic fail on all pads so far untill ...
Audio Technica...


Ath 7 pads with adapters:
wow,
juicy, more detailed, most involving, most natural tone & better mids. Livelier.
Only drawback is Soundstage a bit close than stock or all others, yet deeper stage as well.
A bit of lower midrange bleed as well

Ath7 pads w/2mm inserts:
Even more detailing, realism and focus.
More seal, slam and a bit more overall brightness and clarity.
No tunnel effect or midrange dullness or treble weirdness of other pads.
Better more accurate mids was high point.

Most impressive outcome was the surprising overall increase in realism.
I attribute this to tightening & stretching of the pads on driver from the inserts.
This combo will be extremely hard to beat.
Still having less stage than stock pads.

Ath7 pads with 4mm inserts:
AMAZING...
Soundstage finally proportioned properly to account for proper discernment of spacial cues,
and much better imaging/instrument separation, without the slight confusion of midrange sense of too "proximity" when using with no insert.

Also the more proper or neutral soundstage which 2mm insert almost achieved.

With the 4mm inserts Sine gives better presentation than stock pads in both soundstage and imaging..
Imaging actually very impressed now.

Take note that none of the pads could solve the slight treble elevation of the upper most trebles, but it was not an aspect of much concern with this combo as it was with the other pads.

The Audio Technica pads with the adapter and 4mm spacer combo , are ....

sooo far away BETTER than ALL THE OTHER PADS...
it's ridiculous!
It's like night and day.
No ear sucking or internal vaccume pressure problems either...

Audeze representatives truly need to wake up and look at this ..

So total cost expect to pay around $65.50 total for the adapter and the Audio Technica pads...

This puts the price in same league as the custom-made *vesperaudio* leather pads, which are shipped and on way to be tested next...
along with two other cheapo flebay pads...(another velour and fake leather)

So far the BEST setup is the Audio Technica with insert by a landslide...
I do mean a landslide.

So Untill Audeze finally wakes up to it it's blunder with it's garbage suction pads,
This adapter needs to be on every Sine.
You have no clue what your missing.


Pics:

What is 4mm insert anyway ?

 

[inertianinja]

 
 
@Maxx134 Awesome work dude.
 
 
Quote:

What is 4mm insert anyway ?

 
I noticed that with the wider opening of the MSR7 pads, it might be possible to have your ears touch the fazors. So in the "kit" i include two different sizes of spacers that you put inside the pad to add some depth.

 

[Got the Shakes]

I received my Sine a few hours ago, and so far I am in love. They are the best sounding pair of headphones that I have ever owned. They are a bit heavy, but I don't find them uncomfortable. I've been listening on my iPhone 7 with the Cipher cable and high bitrate mp3s sound quite good to me. Bass doesn't hit all that hard, but it's there. I feel like the soundstage is pretty good, I can hear pretty good separation of instruments with the stuff I tested with (Dave Matthews Band live albums). I think I've finally found my go to portable (and probably at home) cans.
 
Even though I find them fairly comfortable, I'm still pretty interested in modding them to be over ears with the MSR7 pads.

 

[lilbukka]

Same hear. I thought you couldn't get any better than my B&O beoplay H6. But the difference is night and day. I haven't listened to them with the cipher cable yet. They should arrive tomorrow.

 

[Maxx134]

You have a good "sound memory" to be able to swap all these pads and somehow remember and compare the sound. I struggled to do this just between the HM5 and the stock pads. Takes some time to swap them out, mostly to get the HM5 on...

No need to struggle.
Enjoy, you must.
Feel things, you must..



Sonic memory alone is not much useful without applying how to use it, which is to integrate mental memory to the sonic memory.

First, you listen to your headphones long enough to have your baseline reference point.
Like you "normalize" to a headphone where you are used to its sound.

Then you look...
not for changes in general, but in specific areas.

You retrace and retest as many times as it takes to be totally certain, without fatigue.
Important to avoid listening fatigue from trying to hard.

You test with familiar tracks, in which you know exactly how the misical performance is supposed to sound .
A recorded live performance is best for testing, in which there are real instruments and voices, not artificial music.

Personally, I like tons of computer generated popular music, but not for testing..


To know differences, you must know your music.
Differences in headphones is like differences in prescription glasses.. as they create different impression both audible and mental image.
A great sonic performance can make you visualize the actions within..

So to tell differences, you know the music you select as "test" tracks:
You need to know the track as if it was ingrained with special emotional meaning..

You Know your test tracks not only just on those headphones,
But on other systems.
You also know the test tracks in both stereo and mono.
You also know the test track on left ear only ,and right ear only(!).

You then swap pads one cup at a time, and test in between total swaps.
Compare sides.
You alternate sides, before finally swap both same pads in for final impressions.

You change track as soon as you encounter fatigue or tire of listening for certain aspects.

You look for what matters to you.
Some things I look for, not all the time:
realism,
Liveliness,
size,
instrument separation,
sonic forwardness or laid back,
soundstage both depth and distance,
height,
impact,
low-level information,
compressed or expanded micro dynamics and detailing ,
tonality ,
bleed thru,
sibilance and air,
driver distance or proximity ,
Whatever sonic traits jump out..

What traits you expect.
From planar, it's bass,
type of bass.

This headphones bass is impressive to me in the sense that it is very uncolored in that it does not sound bassy untill the track has it.

Hope I didn't overwelm.
A yoda master studio engineer taught me about using one ear for listening for optimal mic placement, which I just applied to headphones..

 

[Maxx134]

Too bad $65.50 for the best pads/inserts. After already spending $30 on the HM5, I'm going to tap out on any further investment in these.

There was discussion about compressing those angles HM pads for Better mids,
But the best pad is not been proclamation yet ,
As I just received my *vesperaudio* leather pads,
Which actually look higher quality than the Audio Technica pads(!)

I will now proceed to test....

 

[Maxx134]

Preliminary observations on Vesperaudio pads:

Best bass impact and amount..
Most neutral trebles..
Most neutral flat mids.
Soundstage a bit further away than both stock and Audio Technica pads.

A bit less lively in mids over Audio Technica pads.
Trebles placed a bit further away as well, in line with mids...

I believe these pads could be the best..
They certainly do look the best and also in quality and feel.

The slightly less lively presence in mids is easily attributed to the new pad thickness placing more ear distance from driver..

I have been spoiled by the Audio Technica pads being a bit softer and so collapsing more, placing ear closer to driver..

Vesperaudio pads are lush and full.

I decided to do the HM5 "pad crush" idea, to "break in" the pads overnight...

So we finally have a second solution that is just as good and more of another choice.

It does do what no other pad has addressed fully, which is treble tonality.

 

[UNOE]

Preliminary observations on Vesperaudio pads:

Best bass impact and amount..
Most neutral trebles..
Most neutral flat mids.
Soundstage a bit further away than both stock and Audio Technica pads.

A bit less lively in mids over Audio Technica pads.
Trebles placed a bit further away as well, in line with mids...

I believe these pads could be the best..
They certainly do look the best and also in quality and feel.

The slightly less lively presence in mids is easily attributed to the new pad thickness placing more ear distance from driver..

I have been spoiled by the Audio Technica pads being a bit softer and so collapsing more, placing ear closer to driver..

Vesperaudio pads are lush and full.

I decided to do the HM5 "pad crush" idea, to "break in" the pads overnight...

So we finally have a second solution that is just as good and more of another choice.

It does do what no other pad has addressed fully, which is treble tonality.

Which Vesperaudio pad? There is 3 different versions I think.

 

[subguy812]

Where are you buying these pads and inserts? Ath7 pads with 4mm inserts

 

[inertianinja]

  Where are you buying these pads and inserts? Ath7 pads with 4mm inserts

 
The genuine ATH-MSR7 pads can be bought directly from audio-technica, parts@atus.com. The guy is super nice, and so many people have been buying that he's become aware of this whole thing, which is cool.
 
The adapters and inserts come from me

 

[subguy812]

The genuine ATH-MSR7 pads can be bought directly from audio-technica, parts@atus.com. The guy is super nice, and so many people have been buying that he's become aware of this whole thing, which is cool.

The adapters and inserts come from me

Shameless plug