[Argo Duck]

Purrin, how many LCD2 have you measured? What sample size do you require to achieve adequate statistical power?

 

[purrin]

Quote:

The Inner Fidelity article http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones measures all the top headphones.  The LCD2s go toe to toe with STAX in measurements.  Except the STAX 009s have better distortion.

Sorry, my own independent measurements show they measure OK - very far from SR009, HP1000, HD800, ESP950. Driver matching was horrid on the pair I measured. As I like to say: don't make me pull out my measurements.

 

[drez]

Quote:

I don't think you can demand anything "flawless" at $2,000 or any price for that matter. That price can at best buy you a decent mid range power cord in high end speaker systems. I just hope that they are a bit more comfortable to wear this time, and if they sound better (at least not worst), that's a plus. I don't intend to become a collector so I will probably sell one of the LCD-2 Rev 1 or the LCD-3 after I have heard for myself.

What? If your point is that there are plenty of more spurious ways to spend $2 grand point taken.  "I will buy one no matter the cost" will likely rub a few people the wrong way - its the reason corporations are able to get away with ripping us Aussies off.  Take for example the Iphone 4s which costs $399 in the US for top model and $799 in Australia.  Exchange rate is .98 US to the Au dollar, and our taxes don't account for that difference.  The fact that millions of dummies will go out and buy one regardless of the cost is why the iphone4 costs so much.
 
Having said this, in the crazy world of audiophool headphones the LCD-3 could in fact be worth every cent.  As I stated previously think of the cost of other components needed to give you the performance increase the LCD-3 could potentially bring.  That $2k bunch of copper wire for example I'm guessing won't make anything near the difference.

 

[Hennyo]

Quote:

LOL. I'll give the Japanese a special exception because they go nuts over stuff. I mean the STAX T2 amp was a major contributor to driving STAX into bankruptcy. This one, the LCD-3, smacks a little bit too much of opportunism and greed, which is worse in my book than obsessive insanity for the pursuit of excellence. Part of this wierd feeling I have comes from the of the poor consistency and probable poor driver matching (I would need more samples to make a stronger statement) of the LCD-2. I've heard about a dozen different LCD-2s and they've all sounded different; and let's not even talk about the measurements. For them to take the next step up makes me extremely wary.
 

@ Jibbie. 2k, in the grand scheme of things, is not out of anyone's pocket-book, if they want it. However, there is a limit to what is eithically (THE rules that naturally govern society) appropriate, let alone acceptable. We have double that point. Purrin's post pretty well describes Stax hall of fame approach to things.. Even if they still are a little overpriced. At least you know they got there due to sheer unbelievable effort. That takes cultural dedication, persistance, the pursuit for excellence. This is especially important in consistence. Audez'e may have been a great company, but ROFL-DEMAO; how could you support the 1000.... to 2000 price doubling of their product over something so pathetic as a 'driver swap' with no explanation when the product clearly has other physical problems.
 
And even after that, then there's the question of fairness to the customer to consider in pure physical wealth / value. 1000$ area is pushing it for a headphone imo (and many other here on Head-fi, including those who barely originally bough t lcd-2 in the first place because of it hexa-digit price point). $1500 for HD 800 is unacceptable.
 
This product rapes society.

---

 
This product, like apple (Steve Jobs was a phenomenal guy) and the usgovernment - is ......... up. There are limits There is no limit to human potential, but there are limits to what is ethically correct ~ as in ethically decent and culturally binding. (This may not sound important, but in the grand scheme of things, it's everything).

---

 
There comes a time where every company needs to be put down, even Audez'e. (in this case, it is just a single product) This is the people's job, as an educated, decent person. As a civilian, it is your job to watch the economy around you and observe what is happening, before that economy (market) implodes upon you. That time has come.

 

[Gwarmi]

Quote:

What? If your point is that there are plenty of more spurious ways to spend $2 grand point taken.  "I will buy one no matter the cost" will likely rub a few people the wrong way - its the reason corporations are able to get away with ripping us Aussies off.  Take for example the Iphone 4s which costs $399 in the US for top model and $799 in Australia.  Exchange rate is .98 US to the Au dollar, and our taxes don't account for that difference.  The fact that millions of dummies will go out and buy one regardless of the cost is why the iphone4 costs so much.
 
Having said this, in the crazy world of audiophool headphones the LCD-3 could in fact be worth every cent.  As I stated previously think of the cost of other components needed to give you the performance increase the LCD-3 could potentially bring.  That $2k bunch of copper wire for example I'm guessing won't make anything near the difference.

Ahh just wait til the LCD-3 lands over here ~ I'm approximating a retail price of $2800AUD.
 
Only two retailers sell the LCD-2 at the moment, I wonder if anymore will jump on board over here.

 

[Sylafari]

Quote:

@ Jibbie. 2k, in the grand scheme of things, is not out of anyone's pocket-book, if they want it. However, there is a limit to what is eithically (THE rules that naturally govern society) appropriate, let alone acceptable. We have double that point. Purrin's post pretty well describes Stax hall of fame approach to things.. Even if they still are a little overpriced. At least you know they got there due to sheer unbelievable effort. That takes cultural dedication, persistance, the pursuit for excellence. This is especially important in consistence. Audez'e may have been a great company, but ROFL-DEMAO; how could you support the 1000.... to 2000 price doubling of their product over something so pathetic as a 'driver swap' with no explanation when the product clearly has other physical problems.
 
And even after that, then there's the question of fairness to the customer to consider.
 

 
How do you know? Have you heard the LCD-3s?

 

[johnwmclean]

I'm going to watch paint dry,
For at least another 15 pages
Let me know if something changes.

 

[Jibbie]

Ethics do not exist naturally, they're societal norms that evolve and change over time, and are hardly applicable to this situation.  Why do you get to decide what is the "ethical limit" for headphone pricing?  Why are Stax exempt from this type of scrutiny, when their flagship is over twice the cost even without factoring in the amp needed to drive them?  If there is a demand for the LCD-3, then they will sell.  If there is no demand, then they won't.  It is that simple.  
 
Again, I understand getting frustrated over headphone companies producing flagships out of your financial reach, pricing you out of the market, but you should just shrug it off, buy the headphones you're willing and able to pay for, and be happy for those who are willing to pay for these expensive products.  Luxury items such as this aren't priced solely for performance.  There is a premium for having the "best" available.  If Audeze has overshot this mark and indeed priced these too high, it'll show in their sales and the price will drop.  Otherwise, it'll come down to simple supply and demand.
 
Anyways, I'm greatly looking forward to Skylab's impressions this weekend.  Not that I have the money to buy these right now, though I am curious nonetheless.
 
Quote:

@ Jibbie. 2k, in the grand scheme of things, is not out of anyone's pocket-book, if they want it. However, there is a limit to what is eithically (THE rules that naturally govern society) appropriate, let alone acceptable. We have double that point. Purrin's post pretty well describes Stax hall of fame approach to things.. Even if they still are a little overpriced. At least you know they got there due to sheer unbelievable effort. That takes cultural dedication, persistance, the pursuit for excellence. This is especially important in consistence. Audez'e may have been a great company, but ROFL-DEMAO; how could you support the 1000.... to 2000 price doubling of their product over something so pathetic as a 'driver swap' with no explanation when the product clearly has other physical problems.
 
And even after that, then there's the question of fairness to the customer to consider in pure physical wealth / value. 1000$ area is pushing it for a headphone imo (and many other here on Head-fi, including those who barely originally bough t lcd-2 in the first place because of it hexa-digit price point). $1500 for HD 800 is unacceptable.
 
This product rapes society.
 
This product, like apple (Steve Jobs was a phenomenal guy) and the usgovernment - is ......... up. There are limits There is no limit to human potential, but there are limits to what is ethically correct ~ as in ethically decent and culturally binding. (This may not sound important, but in the grand scheme of things, it's everything).

 

 

[Tonyflo]

Geeeeeez, at that price difference you could pay for a flight to the US to buy them, then return .... sneak them through customs .... and still have a little to spare. (I'm basing this off the notion I've seen flights from Au to the US for as little as $700-800).
 
That's just utterly ridiculous you guys get hit like that, very sorry to hear that
 
Quote:

Ahh just wait til the LCD-3 lands over here ~ I'm approximating a retail price of $2800AUD.
 
Only two retailers sell the LCD-2 at the moment, I wonder if anymore will jump on board over here.

 

 

[Hennyo]

Quote:

Ethics do not exist naturally, they're societal norms that evolve and change over time, and are hardly applicable to this situation.  Why do you get to decide what is the "ethical limit" for headphone pricing?  Why are Stax exempt from this type of scrutiny, when their flagship is over twice the cost even without factoring in the amp needed to drive them?  If there is a demand for the LCD-3, then they will sell.  If there is no demand, then they won't.  It is that simple.  
 
Again, I understand getting frustrated over headphone companies producing flagships out of your financial reach, pricing you out of the market, but you should just shrug it off, buy the headphones you're willing and able to pay for, and be happy for those who are willing to pay for these expensive products.  Luxury items such as this aren't priced solely for performance.  There is a premium for having the "best" available.  If Audeze has overshot this mark and indeed priced these too high, it'll show in their sales and the price will drop.  Otherwise, it'll come down to simple supply and demand.
 
Anyways, I'm greatly looking forward to Skylab's impressions this weekend.  Not that I have the money to buy these right now, though I am curious nonetheless. 
 

Okay Pippie. I've ran/run 4 companies and lived on my own since 9nth grade. It is NOT a question of financial means to (most) people. The question is an overbearing eventuality that the other 2k flagships will follow suit. The point is the hobby will die. It will become a dinosaur with few new members and those who are in it are somewhat enslaved, even it's just a marginal %. It's an ethical understanding and evenhandedness. Not a financial predicament. (for most people) It will become that way if the market follows this last two year horrendoes trend though.
 
People should not become brainwashed into thinking it's okay to spend 2k on every headphone. Let alone such a price as 1k or 1.3k. It's still ok to do that, but it should not be the norm. Stax are a niche within a niche. Do you ever see advertisements for Stax?! They are more a technology and engineers finest passions rather than a opportunist and corporate designers offering. As Purrin said, these just don't feel right. Is an accurate way to say it.
 
G'night. =D
 
 

 

[googleli]

I think this is a bit unfair especially for those who sold Rev 1 to get the Rev 2 recently. I will get the LCD3 but I will try to keep my hopes down. I don't think at almost twice the price of  the LCD-2, the LCD-3 will be twice better. Diminishing return starts kicking in seriously at this price range. I am pretty sure my home gear is still up to par for driving the LCD-3 (probably overkill) - will keep you guys posted once I get my hands on the LCD3 - can take months giving my experience with the LCD-2 Rev 1.

 

[Tonyflo]

Exactly, I know capitalism gets a bad rap these days .... BUT, most companies, if they could sell more than twice as many headphones for half the price (including manufacturing, labor, etc) in other words, if they could truly profit more by lowering prices/increasing volume -- they would do that in a heartbeat. 
 
Just look at Leica lenses ... amazing performance, often only slightly better than top tier from Canon or Nikon, yet they typically charge 3-5 times more at the same focal lengths. For reference, the 50mm f1.2 Canon L is about $1500 ... the Leica 50mm M f1.4 typically goes for about $4500. And their slightly faster "Noctilux" lens (f.95) -- it goes for $10,000!
 
And guess what? Leica is literally backordered on every single lens they make!
 
That's because lens manufacturing ultra high-performance lenses is not necessarily a fast process (much of it done by hand), nor can it be easily sped up just because there is more demand. So they charge accordingly. 
 
While I personally don't know that much about high-end audio manufacturing, I'm guessing it's not always as simple or easy as "charge less, sell more" ... because if it was, then more manufacturers would be doing it 

 
Quote:

Ethics do not exist naturally, they're societal norms that evolve and change over time, and are hardly applicable to this situation.  Why do you get to decide what is the "ethical limit" for headphone pricing?  Why are Stax exempt from this type of scrutiny, when their flagship is over twice the cost even without factoring in the amp needed to drive them?  If there is a demand for the LCD-3, then they will sell.  If there is no demand, then they won't.  It is that simple.  
 
Again, I understand getting frustrated over headphone companies producing flagships out of your financial reach, pricing you out of the market, but you should just shrug it off, buy the headphones you're willing and able to pay for, and be happy for those who are willing to pay for these expensive products.  Luxury items such as this aren't priced solely for performance.  There is a premium for having the "best" available.  If Audeze has overshot this mark and indeed priced these too high, it'll show in their sales and the price will drop.  Otherwise, it'll come down to simple supply and demand.
 
Anyways, I'm greatly looking forward to Skylab's impressions this weekend.  Not that I have the money to buy these right now, though I am curious nonetheless. 
 

 

 

[Gwarmi]

Quote:

Geeeeeez, at that price difference you could pay for a flight to the US to buy them, then return .... sneak them through customs .... and still have a little to spare. (I'm basing this off the notion I've seen flights from Au to the US for as little as $700-800).
 
That's just utterly ridiculous you guys get hit like that, very sorry to hear that  
 

Yep - Welcome to Australia - land of the small headphone market and massive import tax.

 

[Hennyo]

Quote:

Yep - Welcome to Australia - land of the small headphone market and massive import tax.

Oddly enough there are many of you who hang-out there. ; )
 

 

[TigzStudio]